[quote]Professor X wrote:
Flexible meaning? You mean like, “hero” being used to describe all firefighters or policemen? [/quote]
Exactly.
It’s been a pretty interesting discussion, so while I agree it’s silly to let things like that “upset,” a person, I never said it worry me.
This is where you lose me. I agree that a life based around iron is a valuable one, and it’s a hard one. And I have tremendous respect for accomplished lifter. But I don’t think that “warrior” follows from this.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
These are great counter examples that test the definition. Off the top of my head, here’s who I’d say definately are warriors:
combat soldiers
gang bangers
monguls/hell’s angels
cancer patients
police who patrol dangerous areas
Here are some "maybes::
combat athletes (pro fighters, etc.)
people who live in bad neighborhoods (where survival is a daily struggle)
police
Here are some “definately nots”:
bodybuilders
computer programmers
businessperson
I recognize, of course, that principles of war can be applied to business and other activities. But going bankrupt or missing a lift is quite a different thing from dying.[/quote]
I would also add “Holocaust surivivors” to the top of the list. I never said (nor do I think) being a warrior requires physical combat. But it does require a struggle against life-threatening forces.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
I dont know. I do remember kellen winslow ranting in the locker room to a bunch of reporters screaming he was a warrior, on ESPN. He looked like the biggest tool ever.[/quote]
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
If putting ones life at risk is what makes someone a warrior, then I would like to say that not all military personel are warriors, and a lot of people that are not military personel are warriors.
Logging and mining are very dangerous.
Working on military computers at cheyenne mountain in Colorado Springs is not.
These are great counter examples that test the definition. Off the top of my head, here’s who I’d say definately are warriors:
combat soldiers
gang bangers
monguls/hell’s angels
cancer patients
police who patrol dangerous areas
Here are some "maybes::
combat athletes (pro fighters, etc.)
people who live in bad neighborhoods (where survival is a daily struggle)
police
Here are some “definately nots”:
bodybuilders
computer programmers
businessperson
I recognize, of course, that principles of war can be applied to business and other activities. But going bankrupt or missing a lift is quite a different thing from dying.[/quote]
Gang Bangers? Gang Bangers? You are holding up some of the biggest pussies on the planet as warriors. The great majority of gang bangers I have seen in my life, and believe me there’s many in my hometown, are little punks who weight about 130 pounds and couldn’t fight there way out of a paper bag.
They gang up on dudes in fights ten on one or pull guns and shoot at people. You consider these lowlifes Warriors? As ProfX said your fixation on someone using the term warrior in the gym is hard to fathom in the first place. I have never heard guys in any of the gyms I go to loudly proclaiming their “warrior philosophy”.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
Wouldn’t a real warrior not worry about such small things as fake people?
To me a true warrior is the guy who doesn’t talk much but walks the walk.
The guys in the military talking about how many people they have shot, or are waiting to “get some” are just rednecks that legally get to shoot people. The real warrior is the LRRP who tells his story only when asks and doesn’t brag about what he has done. (could be anyone for that matter, I just have a large amount of respect for the LRRP vets).
So Dick Marcinko was not a warrior because he wrote Rogue Warrior? [/quote]
Demo Dick is the definition of a Warrior…Roman style.
[quote]blooey wrote:
Someone mentioned the Hagakure (bushido) in a previous post.* I think it’s fair to say that all representations of the “warrior spirit” (bushido, chivalry, ninja, Jedi, whatever) are all glamorized versions of reality.
[/quote]
An ideal, maybe?
[quote]
By the way, if I remember correctly, the Hagakure is not the accepted “bushido” book. I’ll be damned if I can remember the right one though! I guess I’ll have to whip out my textbooks again.[/quote]
Never said it was. He just brings his point across very effectively and it is widely available.
[quote]orion wrote:
blooey wrote:
Someone mentioned the Hagakure (bushido) in a previous post.* I think it’s fair to say that all representations of the “warrior spirit” (bushido, chivalry, ninja, Jedi, whatever) are all glamorized versions of reality.
An ideal, maybe?[/quote]
Yep, hence my second paragraph =).
[quote]* By the way, if I remember correctly, the Hagakure is not the accepted “bushido” book. I’ll be damned if I can remember the right one though! I guess I’ll have to whip out my textbooks again.
Never said it was. He just brings his point across very effectively and it is widely available.[/quote]
Actually, I stand corrected. You’re right that the Hagakureis what most people are referring to when they talk about “The Book of the Samurai.” I was getting it mixed up with the Tale of the Genji, which I read at the same time. My bad. It’s been too long since my last Japanese history course =/.
“Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both…and surpass the result.” ~Tien T’ai
Who really gives a rats ass? Everyone knows who is and who isn’t really a warrior if you want to put it in terms of fighting to kill other people.
It’s obviously an analogy based on the level of effort or level of dedication to the task.
Most people are struggling and fighting to succeed in various ways in their lives, against their own personal challenges. If you say they are a warrior you are describing various attributes of their personality.
They are disciplined. They are strugglng against a “foe”. They are achieving objectives.
Sure, some people aren’t very good at realizing their struggles pale in comparison to others. Also, the risks involved for some people are more direct and more visible than it is for others.
Anyway, obviously, people who talk themselves up when describing themselves to others are blowhards. I won’t tell other people I’m a warrior, but it sure might help me in my progress if I convince myself that I am one.
Having read some of the stuff about warriors who are not necessarily combat soldiers I thought some of you might be interested in reading about a woman called Jane Tomlinson, in my opinion a true warrior in every respect:
"Since being told she was suffering from incurable cancer, Jane Tomlinson has inspired a nation, she’s run a wide variety of races, including the London Marathon, London Triathlon, Great North Run and a number of cycle challenges.
Jane has raised over 1 million pounds for the Jane Tomlinson Appeal, which helps various charities including Hannah House in Rothwell, Macmillan Cancer Relief, The Paediatric Acute Services at Leeds NHS Trust and SPARKS"
[quote]Jonesy20 wrote:
OPEN your eyes this war is bull shit and we are losing!
[/quote]
Our military already won the war!!! We are now stuck in a political mess. I can not stand it when people say we are losing the war. The war part is over and we crushed them, killed them and put sadam out. Now the polititians are screwing around!!!
[quote]Chris Arp wrote:
Jonesy20 wrote:
OPEN your eyes this war is bull shit and we are losing!
Our military already won the war!!! We are now stuck in a political mess. I can not stand it when people say we are losing the war. The war part is over and we crushed them, killed them and put sadam out. Now the polititians are screwing around!!!
[/quote]
[quote]Jonesy20 wrote:
Wow! you are absolutely right. How dare you prove me wrong. I want your HEAD ON A PLATE! [/quote]
I just don’t want the US military to be lumped in with a failed political agenda. Our military is well trained,and very capable. This is a failed political occupation.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
The “300” thread reminded of something that has always baffled me…
Why do so many people who lift weights but never served in the military or fought (professionally or on the streets) talk about being warrior?
Do people really think that lifting weights and reading Sun Tzu qualifies them for warrior status?
I’m serious. I hear gym-goers contanstly talking about their “warrior philosophy.” It’s really annoying. Perhaps I am missing something.
Enlighten me: Why are you guys who never risked your life fighting or served in combat warriors?[/quote]
The question you should really be asking is “Why do politicians who have never served in combat and would never send their own children to battle beat the war drum the loudest to send the young and the poor to learn to be ‘warriors?’”
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Professor X wrote:
That’s how I feel about it. If you are military, cool, you may have a reason to be upset with it. If not, you are just bitching because someone else used a term to describe their effort. How is that possibly harming someone because they consider themselves a “warrior” in the weight room? Sometimes it may take that mentality for someone to competely change their habits and the way they look. The real question is, who are you to define someone else’s battles in life and how important they are to them?
Words have meaning. Using your logic, someone who is 6’, 145 pounds is “big.”
The cancer patient issue is actually a pretty easy call: Is the person literally fighting against a force that is trying to kill him or her? Yep.
In today’s society, everyone is a winner. Now EVERYONE is a warrior.
You seem to have missed the point. For me, getting my degree was no easy task. I could very easily say I “fought” to get it. It isn’t up toi you to decide how important my personal battles are. It isn’t your place to make that distinction for anyone but yourself.
Orion, your post was deep and right on topic.
i’ve been in fights. literally. does that mean that i’m a WARRIOR?
you ‘fought’ for your degree. i can see why you would have to. but…jesus. is EVERYTHING about you?
No, everything is clearly about YOU…and your 150k a year salary…with the gardener…and the almost-pro-ball career. I wouldn’t dare take your place. You are worth too much to all of us.[/quote]
He does seem to be a bit cocky for someone who was a failure as a professional athlete.
