Life After Death

Off Topic
61

[quote]belligerent wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

I have determined that there are no facts upon which to base a sound conclusion, hence the only valid response is to treat it as a mystery. I’m comfortable with that as I have no particular investment in either outcome. I’m not driven to support religious beliefs or to disown them in the name of science. There is no knowing, therefore I don’t know. If there is an afterlife, good, if not, okay. [/quote]

I have determined that there are no facts upon which to base the conclusion that you aren’t a prostitute, meth addict, and Obama supporter; therefore, I choose to believe that you are all of the above because it amuses me to do so. Feelings over facts. See how that works?[/quote]

Have at it! As long as your belief in my behaviors has no damaging impact on my happy life, you are free to view me as the source of all that is wrong in the world. Should you try to disadvantage me or mine as a result of these beliefs, I would take action to either convince you of the errors of your ways or, failing that, discredit you.

But assuming it simply pleases you to revile me, please be my guest!

62

Nihlism leads to destructionism.

Faith leads to hope, understanding, knowledge, and peace.

Those with faith have no fears in life or death.

There is no absolute truth god exists there is no absolute truth he doesn’t. You put your faith where you see fit.

63

[quote]Ryancoburn wrote:
Nihlism leads to destructionism.

Faith leads to hope, understanding, knowledge, and peace.

Those with faith have no fears in life or death.

There is no absolute truth god exists there is no absolute truth he doesn’t. You put your faith where you see fit.[/quote]
So are you implying that most of us are Nihilists?

64

[quote]Ryancoburn wrote:
Nihlism leads to destructionism.

Faith leads to hope, understanding, knowledge, and peace.

Those with faith have no fears in life or death.

There is no absolute truth god exists there is no absolute truth he doesn’t. You put your faith where you see fit.[/quote]

People have a choice. It has has nothing to do with their chosen beliefs, I.e. Agnostic philanthropists, Religious extremists. Its how the person chooses to act out on his belief/non belief that affects the world.

65

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
To those that don’t believe in anything at all after death, how do you explain near-death experiences?[/quote]

A near-death experience is actually the subjective experience of “depersonalisation”. The exact same effect can be reproduced with drugs called “dissociatives” - the most well known being Ketamine. People given high doses of Ketamine intravenously regularly report the sensation of being “outside” themselves and even of watching themselves from above. The other experiences reported in near-death are more of an hallucinatory nature and likely relate to:

  1. Hypoxia - the effect of deprivation of oxygen to the brain

And

  1. Neurotransmitters/chemicals such as serotonin/DMT, adrenaline/adrenochrome, endorphins etc[/quote]

Ironically, there was just a study done on this - a real, reputable one published in an academic journal - and it appears it’s more than that. Not saying one way or the other, but I don’t think NDE can be attributed just to the causes you listed.

66

I believe in it.

What is hard for me to comprehend are the desires to leave a legacy, achieve some random goals, or otherwise be the winner in accumulating toys, trophies, knowledge, or riches. What could these things possibly mean to anyone other than yourself during that brief time you are here? I assure you these things mean nothing to anyone you know, much less those you don’t.

God gave us a curiosity of what our purpose is and the ability to communicate about it. He created a vast and wondrous universe. One which reveals a complexity of both components and systems that we have mostly only been able to observe, rarely been about to replicate in any way, and never been able to create out of sheer nothingness.

67

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Nope.

Further, I believe that introducing children to such ideas also introduces existential fear that we all have to deal with as humans. Faith in the afterlife sets up people for a life of fear, as the nature of reason questions, and the nature of questions for humans lies in what happens to us when we die.

When we invest in the idea of an afterlife we subject ourselves to the push pull of fear within faith and reason… Rather than just dealing with and accepting the strong likelyhood that there is no afterlife, people buy into the idea and then have to convince themselves of such over and over out of fear of the contrary. This is the nature of faith in the afterlife, it leads to Existentialism in later life, and the holding onto of the intrinsic fear that there is no afterlife, rather than never buying into the idea at all in the first place.

I’ve gone so far as to call people who are educated and believe in the afterlife; cowards. But really we are wired to be horrified of death, and not everyone is strong enough to look at reality the same way I do. [/quote]

You profoundly misunderstand dual world theologies. People don’t believe because they are “afraid” of death. People believe because the self needs to understand why it exists at all. Man is condemned to ask why and get no answer. That is nihilism. The only escape from nihilism is meaning. I’m not afraid of suffering or dying. I’m afraid of meaninglessness; of nothingness; of the absurd; of oblivion. The fact that you are not afraid of these things does not make you less of a coward; it just makes you less of a deep thinker.[/quote]

That is true, death is nothing, the lack of meaning is just a tad demotivating. [/quote]

Severiano has equated non-belief with strength, courage, education, and reason. Facing the void without the safety net of belief. And apparently open and tolerant. I mean, being judgmental is a religious person’s domain isn’t it?

People who choose to live with faith are conversely weak, cowardly, full of fear, lacking in intellectual flexibility, unreasonable, quixotic, AND, doing damage to their children by introducing them to existential angst and a “life of fear.” People with faith have “bought into the idea” or drunk the Kool-aid, or are acting on blind faith because they haven’t really pondered and struggled intellectually with the big questions of existence and uncertainty, because they lack the courage or self awareness to do so. And they probably never took physics. For example, guys like Jewbacca and Cortes. What a couple of intellectually stunted, backward dumb asses.

68

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Nope.

Further, I believe that introducing children to such ideas also introduces existential fear that we all have to deal with as humans. Faith in the afterlife sets up people for a life of fear, as the nature of reason questions, and the nature of questions for humans lies in what happens to us when we die.

When we invest in the idea of an afterlife we subject ourselves to the push pull of fear within faith and reason… Rather than just dealing with and accepting the strong likelyhood that there is no afterlife, people buy into the idea and then have to convince themselves of such over and over out of fear of the contrary. This is the nature of faith in the afterlife, it leads to Existentialism in later life, and the holding onto of the intrinsic fear that there is no afterlife, rather than never buying into the idea at all in the first place.

I’ve gone so far as to call people who are educated and believe in the afterlife; cowards. But really we are wired to be horrified of death, and not everyone is strong enough to look at reality the same way I do. [/quote]

You profoundly misunderstand dual world theologies. People don’t believe because they are “afraid” of death. People believe because the self needs to understand why it exists at all. Man is condemned to ask why and get no answer. That is nihilism. The only escape from nihilism is meaning. I’m not afraid of suffering or dying. I’m afraid of meaninglessness; of nothingness; of the absurd; of oblivion. The fact that you are not afraid of these things does not make you less of a coward; it just makes you less of a deep thinker.[/quote]

That is true, death is nothing, the lack of meaning is just a tad demotivating. [/quote]

Severiano has equated non-belief with strength, courage, education, and reason. Facing the void without the safety net of belief. And apparently open and tolerant. I mean, being judgmental is a religious person’s domain isn’t it?

People who choose to live with faith are conversely weak, cowardly, full of fear, lacking in intellectual flexibility, unreasonable, quixotic, AND, doing damage to their children by introducing them to existential angst and a “life of fear.” People with faith have “bought into the idea” or drunk the Kool-aid, or are acting on blind faith because they haven’t really pondered and struggled intellectually with the big questions of existence and uncertainty, because they lack the courage or self awareness to do so. And they probably never took physics. For example, guys like Jewbacca and Cortes. What a couple of intellectually stunted, backward dumb asses.

[/quote]

Sarcasm detector going on the fritz.

69

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Nope.

Further, I believe that introducing children to such ideas also introduces existential fear that we all have to deal with as humans. Faith in the afterlife sets up people for a life of fear, as the nature of reason questions, and the nature of questions for humans lies in what happens to us when we die.

When we invest in the idea of an afterlife we subject ourselves to the push pull of fear within faith and reason… Rather than just dealing with and accepting the strong likelyhood that there is no afterlife, people buy into the idea and then have to convince themselves of such over and over out of fear of the contrary. This is the nature of faith in the afterlife, it leads to Existentialism in later life, and the holding onto of the intrinsic fear that there is no afterlife, rather than never buying into the idea at all in the first place.

I’ve gone so far as to call people who are educated and believe in the afterlife; cowards. But really we are wired to be horrified of death, and not everyone is strong enough to look at reality the same way I do. [/quote]

You profoundly misunderstand dual world theologies. People don’t believe because they are “afraid” of death. People believe because the self needs to understand why it exists at all. Man is condemned to ask why and get no answer. That is nihilism. The only escape from nihilism is meaning. I’m not afraid of suffering or dying. I’m afraid of meaninglessness; of nothingness; of the absurd; of oblivion. The fact that you are not afraid of these things does not make you less of a coward; it just makes you less of a deep thinker.[/quote]

The only real escape from Nihilism, without totally lying to yourself is by discovering meaning for yourself, not having it posited on you by a hegemony of lying.

The reality is that the ethics of your faith are virtue based, which are from Aristotle. Aristotle based his ethics on what it is to be thriving, and correctly recognized us as rational animals. God didn’t make your ethics.

We don’t need to rely on traditions of believing in superstitions, when we have reason itself.

Reason has allowed us to make sense of much of the things we are destined to be afraid of, and can explain to us reasons to be thriving/ good animals as well as define what exactly a thriving, good animal/ human is.

The disciplines that have come about because of our reason can help us to define what it is to be a good/ thriving human. Like anthropology and psychology. We already measure and assign value as another innate quality, so we naturally do this already. We just need to do it with reason rather than faith. We need to account for environment and predict the cost of what it will take for future generations to, “thrive.”

As it is now Abraham and all of the religions that sprung about from Judaism are going to be killing one another in the name of the same God. But, at least they won’t be Nihilist? Lol.

72

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
To those that don’t believe in anything at all after death, how do you explain near-death experiences?[/quote]

A near-death experience is actually the subjective experience of “depersonalisation”. The exact same effect can be reproduced with drugs called “dissociatives” - the most well known being Ketamine. People given high doses of Ketamine intravenously regularly report the sensation of being “outside” themselves and even of watching themselves from above. The other experiences reported in near-death are more of an hallucinatory nature and likely relate to:

  1. Hypoxia - the effect of deprivation of oxygen to the brain

And

  1. Neurotransmitters/chemicals such as serotonin/DMT, adrenaline/adrenochrome, endorphins etc[/quote]

Ironically, there was just a study done on this - a real, reputable one published in an academic journal - and it appears it’s more than that. Not saying one way or the other, but I don’t think NDE can be attributed just to the causes you listed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/11144442/First-hint-of-life-after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study.html[/quote]

Yes I read about that recently. I’m not that impressed with the study for a number of reasons.

Firstly, a patient recalls hearing the “beeping” of machinery minutes after death? That’s not a very specific and precise report. Now if the hospital staff were to have said a specific word at certain intervals - 1 minute after death “elephant”, 2 minutes after death “volcano” etc. and the patient had correctly identified those words then it would be far more convincing than reports of “beeping.”

Secondly, just because no electrical activity can be detected in the brain 30 seconds after death does NOT necessary mean that the brain is “dead.” Obviously cellular death has not occurred because the patient is brought back to life. It takes many minutes without oxygen for actual cellular death to occur. So we’re not talking about experiences “after death” so to speak but experiences “without apparent electrical activity” - not necessarily the same thing at all.

Personally I think studies involving dissociatives could be very interesting as depersonalisation appears to be a breakdown of “mind-body duality” which is a fundamental philosophical problem.

73

[quote]Severiano wrote:

The only real escape from Nihilism, without totally lying to yourself is by discovering meaning for yourself, not having it posited on you by a hegemony of lying.

[/quote]

You can’t “find meaning” if there is none. Furthermore, if you actually use logic and really look for meaning the answers you find may be so disturbing that you choose to reject them - hint: “social Darwinism”.

74

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
To those that don’t believe in anything at all after death, how do you explain near-death experiences?[/quote]

A near-death experience is actually the subjective experience of “depersonalisation”. The exact same effect can be reproduced with drugs called “dissociatives” - the most well known being Ketamine. People given high doses of Ketamine intravenously regularly report the sensation of being “outside” themselves and even of watching themselves from above. The other experiences reported in near-death are more of an hallucinatory nature and likely relate to:

  1. Hypoxia - the effect of deprivation of oxygen to the brain

And

  1. Neurotransmitters/chemicals such as serotonin/DMT, adrenaline/adrenochrome, endorphins etc[/quote]

Ironically, there was just a study done on this - a real, reputable one published in an academic journal - and it appears it’s more than that. Not saying one way or the other, but I don’t think NDE can be attributed just to the causes you listed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/11144442/First-hint-of-life-after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study.html[/quote]

Yes I read about that recently. I’m not that impressed with the study for a number of reasons.

Firstly, a patient recalls hearing the “beeping” of machinery minutes after death? That’s not a very specific and precise report. Now if the hospital staff were to have said a specific word at certain intervals - 1 minute after death “elephant”, 2 minutes after death “volcano” etc. and the patient had correctly identified those words then it would be far more convincing than reports of “beeping.”

Secondly, just because no electrical activity can be detected in the brain 30 seconds after death does NOT necessary mean that the brain is “dead.” Obviously cellular death has not occurred because the patient is brought back to life. It takes many minutes without oxygen for actual cellular death to occur. So we’re not talking about experiences “after death” so to speak but experiences “without apparent electrical activity” - not necessarily the same thing at all.

Personally I think studies involving dissociatives could be very interesting as depersonalisation appears to be a breakdown of “mind-body duality” which is a fundamental philosophical problem.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind-body_problem[/quote]

I experienced depersonalization twice in my life, once from trauma which blunted my emotions and psyche, the other from a bacterial infection of my brain that was chronic. When I was 10 I was run over by a car and had a NDE. My depersonalization was of the most severe nature a person could have. Believe when I say through personal experience that they were far from similar in nature.

75

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

The only real escape from Nihilism, without totally lying to yourself is by discovering meaning for yourself, not having it posited on you by a hegemony of lying.

[/quote]

You can’t “find meaning” if there is none. Furthermore, if you actually use logic and really look for meaning the answers you find may be so disturbing that you choose to reject them - hint: “social Darwinism”.
[/quote]

I’m pretty sure we can already do things like make sense of the why’s of our emotions. Why do you feel things like empathy and sympathy towards others, and aren’t most of us equipped with these emotions? We’ve already talked a lot about fear and how our lives can be guided by it.

We spent a lot of time talking about fear and faith. And what is faith other than empty trust that is based in fear and hope?

See how widespread faith is, why not spread awesome shit by helping people to understand the nature of empathy and sympathy?

Why is it we have these things, and what better things to base ethics and meaning in? We are rational animals that have evolved these emotions likely due to our being social and all. Those emotions seem to be adaptations we evolved so we can better look out for one another. They can at least inform us of how to treat one another as humans. It’s a good place to start.

And, what do most people base their lives on today anyhow? How many women you bedded? How much stuff you own? How good you look? How much weight you lift? We create it all, and most of the time it’s petty shit.

Look at the various heavens man has imagined post Judaism. Most of the rewards of heaven include lots of sex, and shit that seems to be attached to our desires as humans. Look at Islam and Mormonism, it’s all about fucking and having shit loads of kids. This makes a lot of sense to me, and makes the faiths that more transparent. Giving men rewards of the afterlife that probably wouldn’t matter, because religion is most likely a construct of man, and a simple horny man at that.

76

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

The only real escape from Nihilism, without totally lying to yourself is by discovering meaning for yourself, not having it posited on you by a hegemony of lying.

[/quote]

You can’t “find meaning” if there is none. Furthermore, if you actually use logic and really look for meaning the answers you find may be so disturbing that you choose to reject them - hint: “social Darwinism”.
[/quote]

I’m pretty sure we can already do things like make sense of the why’s of our emotions. Why do you feel things like empathy and sympathy towards others, and aren’t most of us equipped with these emotions? We’ve already talked a lot about fear and how our lives can be guided by it.

We spent a lot of time talking about fear and faith. And what is faith other than empty trust that is based in fear and hope?

See how widespread faith is, why not spread awesome shit by helping people to understand the nature of empathy and sympathy?

Why is it we have these things, and what better things to base ethics and meaning in? We are rational animals that have evolved these emotions likely due to our being social and all. Those emotions seem to be adaptations we evolved so we can better look out for one another. They can at least inform us of how to treat one another as humans. It’s a good place to start.

And, what do most people base their lives on today anyhow? How many women you bedded? How much stuff you own? How good you look? How much weight you lift? We create it all, and most of the time it’s petty shit.

Look at the various heavens man has imagined post Judaism. Most of the rewards of heaven include lots of sex, and shit that seems to be attached to our desires as humans. Look at Islam and Mormonism, it’s all about fucking and having shit loads of kids. This makes a lot of sense to me, and makes the faiths that more transparent. Giving men rewards of the afterlife that probably wouldn’t matter, because religion is most likely a construct of man, and a simple horny man at that.

[/quote]

The problem is when you start examining empathy it turns out to be merely an evolutionary response that is not even universal:

As I said, when looking for “meaning” you probably won’t like what you find.

Religion can serve the purpose of holding yourself in check; providing an ethical grounding that social Darwinism does not provide. And besides, who says there is no truth in scripture?

“All that is in the world - folly and wisdom and riches and poverty and mirth and grief - is vanity and emptiness. Man dies and nothing is left of him.” - Ecclesiastes

77

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
To those that don’t believe in anything at all after death, how do you explain near-death experiences?[/quote]

A near-death experience is actually the subjective experience of “depersonalisation”. The exact same effect can be reproduced with drugs called “dissociatives” - the most well known being Ketamine. People given high doses of Ketamine intravenously regularly report the sensation of being “outside” themselves and even of watching themselves from above. The other experiences reported in near-death are more of an hallucinatory nature and likely relate to:

  1. Hypoxia - the effect of deprivation of oxygen to the brain

And

  1. Neurotransmitters/chemicals such as serotonin/DMT, adrenaline/adrenochrome, endorphins etc[/quote]

Ironically, there was just a study done on this - a real, reputable one published in an academic journal - and it appears it’s more than that. Not saying one way or the other, but I don’t think NDE can be attributed just to the causes you listed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/11144442/First-hint-of-life-after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study.html[/quote]

Yes I read about that recently. I’m not that impressed with the study for a number of reasons.

Firstly, a patient recalls hearing the “beeping” of machinery minutes after death? That’s not a very specific and precise report. Now if the hospital staff were to have said a specific word at certain intervals - 1 minute after death “elephant”, 2 minutes after death “volcano” etc. and the patient had correctly identified those words then it would be far more convincing than reports of “beeping.”

Secondly, just because no electrical activity can be detected in the brain 30 seconds after death does NOT necessary mean that the brain is “dead.” Obviously cellular death has not occurred because the patient is brought back to life. It takes many minutes without oxygen for actual cellular death to occur. So we’re not talking about experiences “after death” so to speak but experiences “without apparent electrical activity” - not necessarily the same thing at all.

Personally I think studies involving dissociatives could be very interesting as depersonalisation appears to be a breakdown of “mind-body duality” which is a fundamental philosophical problem.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind-body_problem[/quote]

I experienced depersonalization twice in my life, once from trauma which blunted my emotions and psyche, the other from a bacterial infection of my brain that was chronic. When I was 10 I was run over by a car and had a NDE. My depersonalization was of the most severe nature a person could have. Believe when I say through personal experience that they were far from similar in nature. [/quote]

I wish I’d had such experiences. I’ve maimed and nearly killed myself numerous times too. In January this year I broke my legs badly, broken bones in both feet, fractured vertebrae etc. I don’t remember anything even though I was fully conscious, although I have had disturbing “flashbacks” of lying on the ground in a great deal of pain. They gave me Ketamine for the surgery but I have no recollection of that either.

78

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

If you want to live forever, be significant.[/quote]

If some of my work is on the internet, am I immortal?! [/quote]

If your work is influencing people and changing their thoughts and actions long after you are gone, then I would suggest that you are.

79

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Nope.

Further, I believe that introducing children to such ideas also introduces existential fear that we all have to deal with as humans. Faith in the afterlife sets up people for a life of fear, as the nature of reason questions, and the nature of questions for humans lies in what happens to us when we die.

When we invest in the idea of an afterlife we subject ourselves to the push pull of fear within faith and reason… Rather than just dealing with and accepting the strong likelyhood that there is no afterlife, people buy into the idea and then have to convince themselves of such over and over out of fear of the contrary. This is the nature of faith in the afterlife, it leads to Existentialism in later life, and the holding onto of the intrinsic fear that there is no afterlife, rather than never buying into the idea at all in the first place.

I’ve gone so far as to call people who are educated and believe in the afterlife; cowards. But really we are wired to be horrified of death, and not everyone is strong enough to look at reality the same way I do. [/quote]

This all sounds very. . . fraught. What a delight you must be at parties, calling your friends cowards! I don’t know what your childhood as a kid who went to church was like, but I’ve observed a lot of church-y families and they haven’t seemed to exhibit this kind of struggle.

[/quote]

For some people being told there is a heaven and a God is good enough, and they don’t ask questions. For others of us, we are curious by nature, all stuff you already know given different personality types, education levels etc. It’s hard to see how people take death and loss, it’s not like I’m going to ask you to go to a funeral and ask for interviews about how people feel.

I’ve never been to a party where everyone sits and talks about religion btw, but if you do all the time then cool.
[/quote]

What are you saying now? You said that you call your friends cowards, I said “how delightful!” and then you wanted to know what kind of parties I go to?

I have seen death. My own loved ones and others’. I deal with death and bereavement at work, along with end-of-life decisions (e.g. sell home and go to assisted living?). My observation has been that people near death, whether through old age or illness, become tired and generally feel ready to give themselves over to death (though not always). Many hold on until they can settle emotional issues (say goodbye to child who’s traveled in, see a spouse settled and cared for).

Younger or previously healthy people dying have other issues to contend with. I am not afraid of death, regardless of afterlife, but I have a great deal to do between now and what I hope will be my old age. Urgency would be a much better word for what I feel than fear.

Fear seems to come easily to you. That is not everyone’s default.

80

[quote]Ryancoburn wrote:
Nihlism leads to destructionism.

Faith leads to hope, understanding, knowledge, and peace.

Those with faith have no fears in life or death.

There is no absolute truth god exists there is no absolute truth he doesn’t. You put your faith where you see fit.[/quote]

The problem is, those with “faith” won’t leave it alone. They “Go forth and spread the word”. They simply won’t mind their own fucking business…

I don’t have a problem with the personal belief as I do with the organization in charge of promoting/codifying it.

They send people out to convert other people and to rake in more money for their organization. They encourage them (by threatening them with “sin” and excommunication) to not use birth control so that their followers breed MORE and MORE religious babies. They openly state that they want ALL people to believe in THEIR religion.

Historically, these organizations have started wars, committed torture, murder, slander and all kinds of acts promoting their own narrow view of the world. And people will say, “but that’s not what XYZ religion is about, that’s just PEOPLE”. Well guess what? PEOPLE are the ones committing crimes in the name of XYZ religion. And I’m not just picking on Christians here, or Muslims (although I’d say it’s a pretty fair statement that the Abrahamic religions have a metric shit ton of blood on their hands), I’m speaking of ALL religions including the Aztecs with their human sacrifices to the Jews with their practice of cutting the skin of little boys penises.

If you want people to be open to “faith”, why not try to fuck a few less little boys? Or if a member of your clergy DOES fuck little boys, how about you don’t just transfer the pedophile to another location so HE CAN FUCK MORE LITTLE BOYS?

That would be a great start.

What get’s me most is the ARROGANCE about how “right” you say you are in the absence of proof. Not a single religious person can offer PROOF that any of the bullshit he is preaching is actually true. Yet they have the balls to call me a sinner, tell me I’m going to hell, tell me I have to believe in Jesus, the bible, the ten commandments (or whatever), but they CANNOT PROVE SHIT.

Then they turn around and have the balls to come knocking on my door asking for a donation? LMAO