We need a break. So, let’s review the state of the world economy!
Discussions go downhill pretty fast around here don’t they?
Economics is fun. Unfortunately very few people understand it, including the supposed experts, and the Professors. (How many jokes are there about putting a bunch of economists in a room and…)
Economics is not a hard science, it is a social one. It is behavior with math. (And dollar bill signs.) Is behavior predictable? Actually it is quite predictable. Us Magicians take advantage of this. Everyone likes to think they are somehow different, and yet they are more alike then they think. (And by they I mean you.)
Another interesting thing Magicians learn is that the more education a person has, the easier it is to fool them with magic tricks. Education isn’t just teaching people how to be smarter, it is also closing their minds to outside possibilities. And this is why a patent clerk who was unable to get a position in the field of physics was able to blow everyone away and become the most famous physicist ever.
There is a famous quote that experience is no substitute for education, and education is no substitute for experience. So many businesses are familiar with hiring the new, hot, just out of school guy who is prepared to take the world by storm. Then they watch as he falls flat on his face before helping him back up with his bruised ego.
No matter how much you study boxing, it don’t mean shit until you first get hit in the face.
I know at least one person mentioned supply side economics as a foolish theory, but there is a problem with that… it actually worked. This is an historical fact, regardless of how often people try over and over to discredit it. That wonderful revisionist history.
Problem is if you cannot accept the fact of history… now how does that quote go? Those who fail to learn history are destined to repeat it.
Our wonderful leader who has told everyone he was going to study FDR to find out what he did to get us out of the depression, and emulate him apparently missed the research that showed that the actions of FDR actually extended the Great Depression by 7+ years.
When you trace back economic failure over and over and over to the actions of the government, that has to mean something.
There is a reason why understanding economics tends to push people to the right. It is similar to when you get the idea of why a perpetual motion machine will not work. Once you get that concept, you know that anyone who is trying to build one is wasting their time. Unlike being a doubting Thomas, you have the understanding of why it will not work.
The same with liberal economic theories. When Bill Clinton was saying that raising taxes would stimulate the economy, I was seeing a person trying the economic equivalent of a perpetual motion machine. It would not work, and I was right. The economic recovery which was under way stalled out. Then with the takeover of Congress, and the resulting reduction in taxes, suddenly the economy was booming, and the deficit dropped. (Which Bill Clinton took full credit for.)
I glanced through a book that was attempting to disprove supply side economics, and couldn’t believe the person was actually trying to discredit the bell curve. But this video throws his concept out the window:
edit
Ryan has nothing to say . . . and actually didn’t post it! wow!
[quote]Sloth wrote:
enviromental protection expert (contract that out, how?)[/quote]
Companies hire these people all the time. I know a guy that does consulting for companies that want to reduce pollution and energy consumption, etc. They are doing it not because they are forced to but because they realize waste is not economical.
Here is the thing I think many people on the right are thinking, but aren’t necessarily trumpeting from the roof tops.
I’ll speak for myself.
There are some things I wouldn’t immediately mind A government doing that I certainly don’t want THIS government doing and by “this” government I don’t just mean since the last national election. In that light, given the choice between this government doing them and them not being done by government at all, I choose the latter.
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Ryan has nothing to say . . . and actually didn’t post it! wow![/quote]
It’s better than having nothing to say, and positng anyway, like you.
Sloth, I’ve read your hypothesis on the failure of Libertarianism to promote a social ‘safety-net’ in lieu of the government welfare-state.
How does your denomination of conservatism address this?
[quote]Otep wrote:
Sloth, I’ve read your hypothesis on the failure of Libertarianism to promote a social ‘safety-net’ in lieu of the government welfare-state.
How does your denomination of conservatism address this?[/quote]
Could you narrow that down a bit? Or, maybe I should just link to what I’m reading these days if you’re just wanting to see where I’m coming from. It’s a big question for which I probably have few answers (as far as actual policy). I’m definitely no policy wonk.
[quote]Dabba wrote:
People are self-interested naturally, but that is not consumerism. The real cause of the rampant consumerism we see is due to inflation. Why does inflation cause consumerism? Because the only way to combat rising prices is to run out to the store and buy something before the other guy does and the price goes up.
[/quote]
Inflation causes consumerism? BZZZZZZZZZT incorrect. Inflation is only a small contributing factor.
It should be clear to everyone living in reality that consumerism is not caused by inflation.
As a simple counter example consider consumer electronics. There is rampant consumerism for consumer electronics even though the items drastically drop in value with every passing month. I could purchase a computer today for $2000. That same computer will be worth $1200 in 6 months time.
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:
Want to make divorce more difficult? The result will be a decrease in marriages, not more.
[/quote]
Why? I don’t think you can defend such a proposition. By making divorce more difficult you increase the value and desirability of marriage. It increases the social status of marriage.
The number one reason my younger friends in their 20’s don’t care about marriage is because it doesn’t mean much. It no longer indicates undying love; now marriage is as easy to get out of as cohabitation (at least in my country Australia).
[quote]Dabba wrote:
Sorry bud, but I think you’re dreaming if you really think that businessman and mom and pop were sitting around a campfire singing songs together in the past.
Everyone acts in their own self-interest.
[/quote]
What exactly do you think is wrong with his statement? Businessmen did personally speak to and associate with normal people in the community more so than today. It was in their own self-interest to do so.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Could you narrow that down a bit? Or, maybe I should just link to what I’m reading these days if you’re just wanting to see where I’m coming from. It’s a big question for which I probably have few answers (as far as actual policy). I’m definitely no policy wonk. [/quote]
I would be interested to know what you are reading. While I often disagree with you I can tell that your statements are well thought out.
[quote]Ryan P. McCarter wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
Ryan has nothing to say . . . and actually didn’t post it! wow![/quote]
It’s better than having nothing to say, and positng anyway, like you.
[/quote]
wow . . . that was as lame as a one-legged man at an ass-kicking contest . . .
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]Dabba wrote:
People are self-interested naturally, but that is not consumerism. The real cause of the rampant consumerism we see is due to inflation. Why does inflation cause consumerism? Because the only way to combat rising prices is to run out to the store and buy something before the other guy does and the price goes up.
[/quote]
Inflation causes consumerism? BZZZZZZZZZT incorrect. Inflation is only a small contributing factor.
It should be clear to everyone living in reality that consumerism is not caused by inflation.
As a simple counter example consider consumer electronics. There is rampant consumerism for consumer electronics even though the items drastically drop in value with every passing month. I could purchase a computer today for $2000. That same computer will be worth $1200 in 6 months time.[/quote]
Reading comprehension fail. I was clearly speaking generally. As in, inflation tends to create a general atmosphere of consumerism, not just in one industry.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]Dabba wrote:
Sorry bud, but I think you’re dreaming if you really think that businessman and mom and pop were sitting around a campfire singing songs together in the past.
Everyone acts in their own self-interest.
[/quote]
What exactly do you think is wrong with his statement? Businessmen did personally speak to and associate with normal people in the community more so than today. It was in their own self-interest to do so.[/quote]
Maybe a little bit. But my point was that there was never a time when we all cuddled up next to a campfire and held each others’ hands. That doesn’t mean we ought not to strive for a more friendly society, or that I’m denying that community was indeed stronger in the past. It just means that we should start being realistic and stop pretending that everything will be solved simply in this way.
[quote]Dabba wrote:
Reading comprehension fail. I was clearly speaking generally. As in, inflation tends to create a general atmosphere of consumerism, not just in one industry.[/quote]
I know you were speaking generally but you had no proof to back it up. Furthermore, it clearly is not the cause in a number of industries. So why would I believe it is the cause in general?
Mass marketing plays a far greater role in creating consumerism than inflation.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]Dabba wrote:
Reading comprehension fail. I was clearly speaking generally. As in, inflation tends to create a general atmosphere of consumerism, not just in one industry.[/quote]
I know you were speaking generally but you had no proof to back it up. Furthermore, it clearly is not the cause in a number of industries. So why would I believe it is the cause in general?
Mass marketing plays a far greater role in creating consumerism than inflation.[/quote]
Proof? You still don’t seem to get it. The great inflation in the 1970s, for example, created a sense of consumerism. The recent financial crisis, where cheap credit was available and people could lend out and buy as much as they want have created a consumerist attitude. None of these have to do with a free market. Mass marketing can only create consumerism in so far as people are inherently attracted to whatever they are being marketed for. Inflation creates consumerism by someone else destroying the value of your currency. So, in the former case you are only being asked to do something. In the latter, someone else is destroying your medium of exchange and thus, in a sense, forcing you to act on that destruction or else YOU bear the consequences of their action.
[quote]Dabba wrote:
Proof? You still don’t seem to get it.
[/quote]
Get what? I understand that high levels of inflation devalue a currency.
[quote]Dabba wrote:
Mass marketing can only create consumerism in so far as people are inherently attracted to whatever they are being marketed for.
[/quote]
You focus upon economics so much that you appear a nitwit in other general areas. People are marketed into buying junk that they will never use and this happens every day. Not simply products that they are inherently attracted to. Marketing is brainwashing-lite and is at least as dangerous as low levels of inflation.
[quote]Dabba wrote:
In the latter, someone else is destroying your medium of exchange and thus, in a sense, forcing you to act on that destruction or else YOU bear the consequences of their action.
[/quote]
And here is where you lose me. People do not become consumerist because they feel they have to rush in and buy things before their medium of exchange is devalued. Absolute bullocks in the general sense.
I don’t go and buy a car I don’t need because I’m worried it will cost more in a years time. Likewise I don’t go and purchase a t-shirt now because it will cost a few $ more by the end of the year.
So I’m asking for proof that inflation causes consumerism due to its effect in devaluing the currency.