Liberals Don't Understand Economics

[Dabba]

[quote]phaethon wrote:
You focus upon economics so much that you appear a nitwit in other general areas. People are marketed into buying junk that they will never use and this happens every day. Not simply products that they are inherently attracted to. Marketing is brainwashing-lite and is at least as dangerous as low levels of inflation.[/quote]

Your lack of focus on economics is equally astounding. When did I say that marketing had NO effect on people? It is my belief that inflation has a greater effect on consumerism.

And here is where you lose me. People do not become consumerist because they feel they have to rush in and buy things before their medium of exchange is devalued. Absolute bullocks in the general sense.

Uh, gee, yeah they do. Anyone with any sense that knows that there is inflation also knows that the only way to combat it is to buy right now. This is so easy to comprehend, I’m not sure what the problem is.

I don’t go and buy a car I don’t need because I’m worried it will cost more in a years time. Likewise I don’t go and purchase a t-shirt now because it will cost a few $ more by the end of the year.

If you know that the price of something will go up soon, then you won’t choose to buy it now?

So I’m asking for proof that inflation causes consumerism due to its effect in devaluing the currency.

Empirical proof? You and I both know that finding some statistics would be a waste of time. I already told you why inflation causes consumerism, yet you are so short-sighted that you think I said ONLY inflation causes consumerism.

[phaethon]

[quote]Dabba wrote:
Your lack of focus on economics is equally astounding. When did I say that marketing had NO effect on people? It is my belief that inflation has a greater effect on consumerism.
[/quote]

And I am questioning your belief. Why do you think it has a greater effect on consumerism? I don’t feel there is any evidence to support such reasoning.

[quote]Dabba wrote:
Uh, gee, yeah they do. Anyone with any sense that knows that there is inflation also knows that the only way to combat it is to buy right now. This is so easy to comprehend, I’m not sure what the problem is.
[/quote]

No it is not. Supply and demand itself dictates that a rational person will not go out and buy right now even if they know the price will go up by a few percent over the year. Because the rational person doesn’t want a run on goods.

As it stands I can earn more in interest than I will lose via inflation by sitting my $ in the bank. Thus only goods that are an absolute necessity in the near future would cause me to rush and buy now. These goods are not the goods the consumerist culture are purchasing.

[quote]Dabba wrote:
If you know that the price of something will go up soon, then you won’t choose to buy it now?
[/quote]

There are a lot of reasons why I might not buy it now. I think the biggest is impulse buying. The literature on impulse buying is extensive: Most consumer purchases are impulse buys. They are not necessities.

Consumer goods do not act like commodities. A t-shirt is not a t-shirt is not a t-shirt. While the price for all t-shirts might rise by 5% by the end of the year, some of the t-shirts will be worth 20% more, others will be worth 50% less. It is often better to wait and see even if you will be hit with a 5% increase.

The added time to do research and see how a consumer good is accepted by society is invaluable.

[quote]Dabba wrote:
Empirical proof? You and I both know that finding some statistics would be a waste of time. I already told you why inflation causes consumerism, yet you are so short-sighted that you think I said ONLY inflation causes consumerism.
[/quote]

You stated inflation was one of the main drivers of consumerism. I asked you to back that up. I have already admitted inflation plays a role. However given that wrt consumerism much of it is impulse buying or due to cultural direction what makes you think inflation is one of the main drivers?

We are not talking about business purchases. We are talking about consumerism aka the culture of buying lots of shit you don’t need.

[Dabba]

To make this simple then, what is your solution to the mass marketing problem? I know what my solution is to inflation.

[Tiribulus]

I just wanted to say that you guys are having an interesting discussion here.

[Dabba]

I wasn’t going to respond to this because I thought it was going nowhere, but since at least one person seems to be interested, I’ll give it a shot.

[quote]phaethon wrote:
And I am questioning your belief. Why do you think it has a greater effect on consumerism? I don’t feel there is any evidence to support such reasoning.[/quote]

I already explained why I think this. Why do you rely so much on statistics? They are so easy to manipulate. Besides that, I’m not sure what kind of statistics or “facts” you want me to find. Consumerism isn’t really something that can be measured, at least not the kind I’m talking about. I’m talking about general trends over periods of time.

No it is not. Supply and demand itself dictates that a rational person will not go out and buy right now even if they know the price will go up by a few percent over the year. Because the rational person doesn’t want a run on goods.

Supply and demand are subverted when prices are distorted through inflation. It’s not just that prices go up, but it’s how prices go up as well. For example, we are encouraged practically daily by the government to spend more money to “get the economy moving”. You don’t think this is one of the causes of consumerism? People want to get back in the malls and spend. They don’t want to face the bad medicine of a recession (which would’ve happened more severely if not for the inflation, I mean “stimulus”). If the recession had run its course, people would’ve been forced to save and would likely be more prudent in the future. Our policies encourage consumption and delay saving. I don’t see how this does NOT inevitably create a consumerist public.

You have to realize that when I’m talking about inflation creating an atmosphere of consumerism, I’m talking over a long time period, not just as an impulsive buy. Perhaps our definitions of consumerism are different and that is causing some confusion. However, after a brief look at some dictionary definitions of it, I was unsatisfied and it didn’t really differentiate between the compulsive aspect that you emphasize and the more causal relationship that I do.

As it stands I can earn more in interest than I will lose via inflation by sitting my $ in the bank. Thus only goods that are an absolute necessity in the near future would cause me to rush and buy now. These goods are not the goods the consumerist culture are purchasing.

Again, while this may be true, the ultimate impact and result of policies that encourage consumption are a , gasp, consumerist society!

There are a lot of reasons why I might not buy it now. I think the biggest is impulse buying. The literature on impulse buying is extensive: Most consumer purchases are impulse buys. They are not necessities.

My hypothesis is that this is LARGELY (not completely) created by the fact that we are encouraged to spend in general, rather than save and face facts, and by the sense of entitlement (one of the parts you left out before) in society right now.

You stated inflation was one of the main drivers of consumerism. I asked you to back that up. I have already admitted inflation plays a role. However given that wrt consumerism much of it is impulse buying or due to cultural direction what makes you think inflation is one of the main drivers?

Because in a non-inflationary environment people would be forced to save more often instead of consuming rampantly and then being bailed out later. I am not simply talking about small goods, but the atmosphere of consuming anything leads to the consumption of many “unnecessary” things. However, I do want to point out here that I am not against people buying whatever they want, per se, I just think that this over-consumptive society is not the norm in a free market.

We are not talking about business purchases. We are talking about consumerism aka the culture of buying lots of shit you don’t need.

But what is the root cause of this culture? Mass marketing can only exacerbate an already existing flaw or problem. When people distrust the value of their currency, they do very foolish things. Go ask Zimbabweans how fast they spend their money because of inflation.