Let's Talk Game w/ Women

[Schwarzfahrer]

[quote]LoRez wrote:
[…]
However… there seems to be almost nothing on how to build an emotionally intimate relationship, without being friendzoned. Keeping the sexual tension stoked while also building trust and a sense of comfort between the two of you.

I’m surprised that I can’t really find any information on how to do that.
[/quote]
Ahm whaat?
First, in theory, you can do that just like with anyone else.
Why should it be different?
But on the other hand:

90% of all people let their inner monkey steer them through life, ESPECIALLY with relationships, sex, dating, basically the whole mating thing.
So there’s literally an erect pussy and a wet vagina between your and your woman-friend.

You could ignore that, but it would have to be clear from both sides.
And even then the ape still jerks the reins hard from time to time.

And he’s mostly right: If you happen to have a healthy friend of the opposite sex, why shouldn’t you bang just because, you can always continue to talk about shopping or lifting or whatever makes your platonic friendship boat float.

but I know one girl annulled her marriage after a few conversations with me,

How many interesting woman-friends did you have in your weird life?
FWIW: I’d bet all my money your monkey was jaleous and let you basically destroy her marriage with clear intent.

[LoRez]

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

but I know one girl annulled her marriage after a few conversations with me,

How many interesting woman-friends did you have in your weird life?
FWIW: I’d bet all my money your monkey was jaleous and let you basically destroy her marriage with clear intent. [/quote]

Not for the annulment. But, um, for the divorce, yeah, probably.

How many interesting women friends? Several.

Well, there were the two sisters with the sibling rivalry. The younger, hotter, sane one that I spent my weekends with and the older, crazy one who followed me around campus like a puppy during the week. And basically moved in with me. At one point, their mom called me aside and asked me to just pick one of them.

There was another who was “talking” to a lot of different guys (I believe there were around 7 of them), but who spent her nights with me… so I didn’t really care. That was an interesting SHTF scenario when it all blew up on her. We’re actually still good friends.

There was a cashier I worked with in retail who typically spent a good 2 hours a day flirting with me. Her boyfriend worked with us but in a different part of the store. I hung out with the two of them (and other work friends) a few times, and spent the night at their place. Eventually she left him, and asked me out. But that stayed platonic (my choice).

There was a girl I dated in early high school before I moved away. We kept in touch over the years. When I moved to the same city she was, the first time I saw her was on her wedding day. She kept wanting to see me, and after awhile I pretty much went “eh, why not, she wants it and who am I to say no”. So yeah. We managed to make that work for a few years after the divorce even, but we were heading in different directions.

There was a girl in college who gave me her name and number and email address and invited me to dinner the first time I met her (I never asked). She even changed her campus housing to live in the building next to mine. She had an out of town boyfriend, but still wanted to spend as much time with me as possible. That ultimately just resolved itself to meeting for lunch and/or dinner once a week for a couple years.

Um. There’s others.

Weird life for sure.

[LoRez]

Out of that list,

Two of those girls are engineers.
Two are doctors.
One’s a music producer and DJ.
One’s a dietitian.

(There was also a lawyer in there, now that I think of it. Another long and strange story.)

[Brant2]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Brant2 wrote:

The good point about getting an educated chick is that they’re quite hard to come across here, and they tend to be great women as a whole and turn out to be great partners when times get tough.
[/quote]

Chushin,

I am not saying you should trust Brant2 because I don’t know him, but I was impressed he could recognize this and I assume he will therefore be in a position to appreciate a quality women.

That and the fact he said he was tired of the “sex-bullshit” comment probably indicates he doesn’t just want to get into their pants.

Based on those two solid facts, I think you should consider giving him your friends phone number.

[/quote]

AMEN!

Alpha F, I PMd you, see if it went through.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

Weird life for sure.[/quote]

My case is pretty similar to yours, LoRez. The only possible difference is that I didn’t try any moves on a few just to have a few female friends around… I tend to mess things up easily after I get bored/uninterested, and having female friends makes sure at least have a steady source or women (friends, cousins, sisters).

[Alpha_F]

[quote]Brant2 wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]Brant2 wrote:

The good point about getting an educated chick is that they’re quite hard to come across here, and they tend to be great women as a whole and turn out to be great partners when times get tough.
[/quote]

Chushin,

I am not saying you should trust Brant2 because I don’t know him, but I was impressed he could recognize this and I assume he will therefore be in a position to appreciate a quality women.

That and the fact he said he was tired of the “sex-bullshit” comment probably indicates he doesn’t just want to get into their pants.

Based on those two solid facts, I think you should consider giving him your friends phone number.

[/quote]

AMEN!

Alpha F, I PMd you, see if it went through.

[/quote]

Glad to help a brother out,

No PM, though.

[Alpha_F]

Are you guys using “emotional intimacy” as a manipulator?

In other words; is “friendship” your “Game”?

Just a thought.

[LoRez]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Are you guys using “emotional intimacy” as a manipulator?

In other words; is “friendship” your “Game”?

Just a thought.[/quote]

No. Not at all.

The fact that it seems to “work” is really just a side effect for me. I went for a long time just not wanting to date anyone, but still wanted an emotional connection. Basically as close as I could be without actually dating. I guess that’s the reverse of most guys. But I’ve never ever used it as a manipulator. Which is why it kinda pisses me off that I’ve unintentionally ended a few long term relationships. I really just valued their company.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Are you guys using “emotional intimacy” as a manipulator?

In other words; is “friendship” your “Game”?

Just a thought.[/quote]

No. Not at all.

The fact that it seems to “work” is really just a side effect for me. I went for a long time just not wanting to date anyone, but still wanted an emotional connection. Basically as close as I could be without actually dating. I guess that’s the reverse of most guys. But I’ve never ever used it as a manipulator. Which is why it kinda pisses me off that I’ve unintentionally ended a few long term relationships. I really just valued their company.[/quote]

Maybe Orion would say that you have “natural game”.

Only you know the forces that are driving you.

[batman730]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
[/quote]

This Batman here is the real deal.

If you ever write a book, I will buy it.
[/quote]

That’s very kind of you. I’m glad somebody feels they get something out of some of what I post on here. It’s highly doubtful that a book will be forthcoming though.

I have also enjoyed reading your authentic and insightful contributions. Thanks for participating.

[LoRez]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Are you guys using “emotional intimacy” as a manipulator?

In other words; is “friendship” your “Game”?

Just a thought.[/quote]

No. Not at all.

The fact that it seems to “work” is really just a side effect for me. I went for a long time just not wanting to date anyone, but still wanted an emotional connection. Basically as close as I could be without actually dating. I guess that’s the reverse of most guys. But I’ve never ever used it as a manipulator. Which is why it kinda pisses me off that I’ve unintentionally ended a few long term relationships. I really just valued their company.[/quote]

Maybe Orion would say that you have “natural game”.

Only you know the forces that are driving you.
[/quote]

Just not with single women it seems… at least not nearly as well. Or maybe just with crazy girls?

But that is a good point, because I should actually figure out what’s different. I wonder if I’m actually putting out some degree of “I’m desperate” vibe. I’m not consciously behaving any differently whether I’m looking or not, but the results have been different. It could be due to the fact that there’s no self-judgment if you don’t intent for it to go anywhere and you’re just having fun. It could be similar on her part, because she’s already with someone, so she doesn’t feel like it’s necessary to impress me or whatever. Just not really sure.

Either way, it’s probably not an effective approach for most guys, especially if all you’re looking for is taking a girl home with you. In my experience, while there was always some sort of spark or connection in the first conversation, it always took at least 2 months for anything to go anywhere. But then again, that might have been because the tension was so drawn out that she made the first move because she couldn’t stand it anymore. My memory’s a bit fuzzy on some of these things.

Maybe it’s the role reversal? I pushed the emotional intimacy to the point where she craved the physical intimacy?

I really don’t know. This kind of gets back to the point orion was making earlier in the thread where the people who have natural game simply have no clue how they do it. Although, I suppose I could critique someone and point out where they went wrong, so maybe I do know?

But as far as walking into a bar/club and walking out with a girl, I can’t do that. As far as any sort of traditional “game”, I can’t do any of that. That’s probably not 100% true, but close enough.

[therajraj]

Post for Cortes : How Japan's samurai caste was toppled by MAKE UP: Lead poisoning left the warriors' children backward and physically deformed | Daily Mail Online

I think it was you who said the samurai warrior lies dormant in the Japanese people? Pretty timely article after your comments.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]LoRez wrote:

Just not with single women it seems… at least not nearly as well. Or maybe just with crazy girls?

But that is a good point, because I should actually figure out what’s different. I wonder if I’m actually putting out some degree of “I’m desperate” vibe. I’m not consciously behaving any differently whether I’m looking or not, but the results have been different. It could be due to the fact that there’s no self-judgment if you don’t intent for it to go anywhere and you’re just having fun. It could be similar on her part, because she’s already with someone, so she doesn’t feel like it’s necessary to impress me or whatever. Just not really sure.

[/quote]

Responding to the first line: That was the other thing that stood out to me from your posts; Your attraction to crazy girls.

Why?

Crazy and engaged/married women; Why are you comfortable only with the women that are out of bounds and technically unavailable?

Responding to the paragraph:

You said:

“It could be due to the fact that there’s no self-judgment if you don’t intent for it to go anywhere and you’re just having fun.”

Boundaries.

Before you look at “desperate vibes” I would look at the aspect of boundaries.

Also instead of thinking self judgment, think “discernment”.

Can you discern potential situations you can enter that might violate:

a) Your boundaries
b) Her boundaries
c) Her partner boundaries

[LoRez]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
Crazy and engaged/married women; Why are you comfortable only with the women that are out of bounds and technically unavailable?[/quote]

I guess “crazy” is all relative; all women are crazy from a guy’s perspective But yeah, there was one genuinely crazy girl in there; the rest that seemed crazy were really just in weird stages of their lives. Normal, just a little lost and confused dealing with new circumstances (like being newly single, and not yet adapted to all the attention she was getting.)

But the answer to your question is precisely because they were unavailable. My logic was stupid in retrospect, but it basically was this: I felt responsible for hurting a girl I dated in high school that I was serious about, and I didn’t want to hurt anyone else. So, I was ok getting close to someone I couldn’t have, and thus protected me from actually dating anyone.

(Now that I’m older, she was hurt, but I didn’t hurt her. And I’m not responsible for her happiness anyway. But that wasn’t the way I thought back then.)

So, because they were unavailable, I could enjoy a fairly intimate relationship (emotionally), and have fun flirting with them, without there ever being anything more. We could both walk away, have good memories, and not hold any grudges. As long as she stayed with her significant other, it was kind of a win-win.

[quote] “It could be due to the fact that there’s no self-judgment if you don’t intent for it to go anywhere and you’re just having fun.”

Boundaries.

Before you look at “desperate vibes” I would look at the aspect of boundaries.

Also instead of thinking self judgment, think “discernment”.

Can you discern potential situations you can enter that might violate:

a) Your boundaries
b) Her boundaries
c) Her partner boundaries[/quote]

I read over that several times, but something just doesn’t seem to click. I don’t really understand what you’re saying.

[tangential side track]

I’ve only violated physical boundaries once, ever. Well, with just one girl: that same girl from high school who started seeing me just after she got married. All said and done, I’m glad that she and I gave things a second chance, after the first one failed due to lack of communication (I moved, and long-distance phone calls weren’t free, so it didn’t end by choice).

So, while I’ve had friends’ girlfriends and married coworkers attracted to me and such, I’ve only crossed that line once and it was an exceptional circumstance.

[Alpha_F]

I was not speaking of physical boundaries.

I, personally, have a clear discernment between having an emotional connection and enjoying emotional intimacy with a member of the opposite sex.

[LoRez]

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
I was not speaking of physical boundaries.

I, personally, have a clear discernment between having an emotional connection and enjoying emotional intimacy with a member of the opposite sex.
[/quote]

I figured that’s what you were talking about. How do you distinguish the difference? What kind of ‘lines’ have you drawn?

I guess personally, I’m quick to share events, a little slower to share my insights about those events, and very slow to actually share the real way I felt and why I think certain ways. There are only a couple people I trust at that level (but they’re people who can see through me anyway, so it’s not like it’s something they don’t already know).

[Alpha_F]

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Alpha F wrote:
I was not speaking of physical boundaries.

I, personally, have a clear discernment between having an emotional connection and enjoying emotional intimacy with a member of the opposite sex.
[/quote]

I figured that’s what you were talking about. How do you distinguish the difference? What kind of ‘lines’ have you drawn?

[/quote]

Diffused x Infused

Familiarity x “Over-familiarity”

Vulnerable for being so strong x Strong for being so vulnerable

Non-hormonal x Hormonal

Philia+Storge x Philia+Storge+Eros

The line is drawn at Eros.

I draw the line at anything at any point that crosses into desire.

[Alpha_F]

[quote]therajraj wrote:
How Japan's samurai caste was toppled by MAKE UP: Lead poisoning left the warriors' children backward and physically deformed | Daily Mail Online
[/quote]

“How Japan’s samurai caste was toppled by MAKE UP: Lead poisoning left the warriors’ children backward and physically deformed.”

Made me think of:

How America’s revolutionary caste was toppled by Feminist Make Up: Feminism poisoning left the fighters’ children backward and emotionally deformed.