Let's Talk Game w/ Women

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I considered starting a thread about this whole “Alpha/Beta” thing, but it’s probably not worth it. I get the common usage, but on the “Beta” side it’s just seems inaccurate to me. Beta wolves are strong, aggressive, capable animals who are constantly challenging the Alpha Male for social dominance and trying to mate with the Alpha female. They basically have everything it takes to be the Alpha, but there happens to be one animal that has just a little more. This can actually make them more overtly aggressive than the Alpha, as they are, I believe, pissed of about this fact and constantly seeking to prove themselves and knock the Alpha out of the top slot.

The kind of weak, submissive, generally pathetic behaviour that seems to get described as “Beta” is actually characteristic of the Omega wolf, the lowest dog in the hierarchy. I suspect that most guys who consider themselves Alpha are actually more Beta as they likely know at least one guy who is even just slightly more socially dominant than they are. It seems improbable that we are all the biggest fish in our respective social ponds. I realize that this is pretty trivial, but it bugs me a little. I’m a dork like that. That is all. Continue.[/quote]

Well then, indulge in your dorkish ways, the internet has answered your prayers:

Those of you who have been reading my blog for a while know I donâ??t like the alpha-beta (or even the alpha-beta-omega) classification. By definition having just two or even three categories is not enough for describing where men are especially since with just the alpha-beta thereâ??s no room to describe what is happening to most men. Vox Day has come up with a much better classification system:

Alphas â?? the male elite, the leaders of men for whom women naturally lust. Their mere presence sets women a-tingle regardless of whether she is taken or not. Once youâ??ve seen beautiful married women ignoring tall, handsome, wealthy, and even famous men because that ugly old troll Henry Kissinger walked in the room, you simply canâ??t deny the reality of Alphadom. Example: Captain Kirk, Big from Sex in the City. Suggestion: Do you see a scoreboard? Right, so relax already!

Betas â?? the lieutenants, the petty aristocracy. Theyâ??re popular, they do well with women, theyâ??re pretty successful in life, and they may even be exceptionally good-looking. But they lack the Alphaâ??s natural self-confidence and strength of character. Theyâ??re not leaders and theyâ??re not the men to whom women are helplessly drawn. Most men who like to think theyâ??re Alphas because of their success are actually Betas. Most Betas wonâ??t change their game because they donâ??t really have any need or reason to do so. This is probably the easiest social slot in which to find yourself, since the Beta enjoys many of the benefits of Alphadom without being trapped in the Alphaâ??s endless cycle of competition. Example: Brad Pitt Suggestion: Have some compassion for the less naturally fortunate. Try to include them once in awhile.

Deltas â?? the great majority of men. These are Roissyâ??s Betas. Almost all of you reading this are Deltas despite the natural desire to believe that you are a brave and bold Alpha snowflake notwithstanding. Deal with it. Thereâ??s absolutely nothing wrong with being a Delta, itâ??s just a simple statistical and observable reality. The sooner you accept the truth about yourself, the sooner you will be able to control your unconscious inclinations and modify your behavior in a manner that will help you achieve your goals. Iâ??ve gone out of alphabetical order here because delta symbolizes change, which most Deltas are capable to some extent. Hence the synthetic alpha instruction set known as Game. Example: Probably you. Suggestion: Never forget that there are plenty of girls on the girl tree.

Gammas â?? the obsequious ones, the posterior puckerers, the nice guys who attempt to score through white-knighting, faux-chivalry, flattery, and omnipresence. All men except true Alphas will occasionally fall into Gamma behavior from time to time, this is the behavior and attitude that Roissy is attempting to teach men to recognize and avoid. The dividing line between a Gamma and a Delta is that the Gamma genuinely believes in the Gamma reality to the very core of his soul whereas the Delta is never truly comfortable with himself when he behaves in this manner despite being thoroughly indoctrinated in it by his culture. Example: Probably you if youâ??ve found yourself complaining about your lack of female companionship over the last two years. Suggestion: Remember that the statement â??all are fallenâ?? applies to women too. She isnâ??t any more naturally pure or holy or ethereal than you are.

Lambdas â?? the gays. They have their own social hierarchy. They can fill any role from Alpha to Omega, but they tend to play the part rather than actually be it because the heterosexual social construct only encompasses the public part of their lives. Example: Neil Patrick Harris. Suggestion: Straights will be more tolerant if you keep the bathhouse behavior behind closed doors.

Sigmas â?? the lone wolves. Occasionally mistaken for Alphas, particularly by women and Alphas, they are not leaders and will actively resist the attempt of others to draft them. Alphas instinctively view them as challenges and either dislike or warily respect them. Some Deltas and most Omegas fancy themselves Sigmas, but the true Sigmaâ??s withdrawal from the pack is not a reaction to the way he is treated, it is pure instinct. Example: Clint Eastwoodâ??s movie persona. Suggestion: Entertain the possibility that other people are not always Hell. The banal idiocy is incidental, itâ??s not intentional torture.

Omegas â?? the losers. Even the Gamma males despise them. That which doesnâ??t kill them can make them stronger, but most never surmount the desperate need to belong caused by their social rejection. Omegas can be the most dangerous of men because the pain of their constant rejection renders the suffering of others completely meaningless in their eyes. Omegas tend to cluster in defensive groups; the dividing line between the Omega and the Sigma is twofold and can be easily recognized by a) the behavior of male Betas and Deltas and b) the behavior of women. Women tend to find outliers attractive in general, but while they respond to Sigmas almost as strongly as they do to Alphas, they correctly find Omega males creepier and much scarier than Gamma males. Example: Eric Harris Suggestion: Your rejection isnâ??t entirely personal. Observe the difference in your own behavior and the way the Betas act. And try not to start off conversations with women by sharing â??interesting factsâ?? with them.

While I donâ??t think that even this is expressive enough to describe what we need when talking about male-female interaction (and I think the lambda category should be left out since this is about heterosexual interaction), its much better than the alpha-beta or alpha-beta-omega systems.

http://www.antifeministtech.info/2010/01/better-than-the-alpha-beta-classification/

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I considered starting a thread about this whole “Alpha/Beta” thing, but it’s probably not worth it. I get the common usage, but on the “Beta” side it’s just seems inaccurate to me. Beta wolves are strong, aggressive, capable animals who are constantly challenging the Alpha Male for social dominance and trying to mate with the Alpha female. They basically have everything it takes to be the Alpha, but there happens to be one animal that has just a little more. This can actually make them more overtly aggressive than the Alpha, as they are, I believe, pissed of about this fact and constantly seeking to prove themselves and knock the Alpha out of the top slot.

The kind of weak, submissive, generally pathetic behaviour that seems to get described as “Beta” is actually characteristic of the Omega wolf, the lowest dog in the hierarchy. I suspect that most guys who consider themselves Alpha are actually more Beta as they likely know at least one guy who is even just slightly more socially dominant than they are. It seems improbable that we are all the biggest fish in our respective social ponds. I realize that this is pretty trivial, but it bugs me a little. I’m a dork like that. That is all. Continue.[/quote]

I’d actually be interested in that thread.

And yeah, I used beta per common usage. And per that more elaborate taxonomy, I would have used delta/gamma/omega instead of beta.

[quote]orion wrote:
http://www.antifeministtech.info/2010/01/better-than-the-alpha-beta-classification/
[/quote]

Where does the ‘reluctant leader’ fit in? Sigma?

I’ll probably get some flak for this, but that sigma description fits me pretty well. Except that here and there I end up with people who follow me; what I say, what I do. I don’t really care, and don’t really like it actually.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I feel sorry for the guy. I want to help, but I really haven’t a clue what to do.

Any advice?[/quote]

Yeah. Hang out with him less, and instead spend more time with the more socially adept “soldiers” in your crew. Stuff like transitive properties, impulse-into-action and momentum really do matter in this context.

Unless “helping others” is truly one of the core facets of your identity. In which case, expect him to drag you down (in these social contexts) far more than vice-versa.

I am still befuddled about the alpha/beta/gamma stuff, in that I would think it is highly situational and depends on what time in life it is.

I was an alpha-type in HS, the sterotypical athlete ---- but got good grades and a national merit scholarship. Got laid A LOT.

In basic training in the Army — not so much. My hand and I got to know each other a lot.

Rock climing, shooting, or riding a horse – alpha.

All fish can be a big fish. All fish can be a small fish. It just depends on the pond the fish is in.

++++++++++++++++

Regarding the whole picking up women thing, I’ve done a fair amount of picking up women in my life.

I wouldn’t know a fucking thing about picking up a girl in a club in LA, hate clubs, and probably wouldn’t try. I would be a small fish there because, well, I fucking hate that kind of place.

You just have to pick the pond where you are the big fish.

That is the most important pick up trick.

For example, I am assuming most guys here are pretty jacked. So go somewhere you can take your shirt off and not look like a complete fucktard douche – e.g., a pool, beach, chopping wood, whatever — because that is where being jacked makes you the alpha.

Next, go some place where women are seperated from their normal pack and won’t suffer from the social ramifications of getting fucked by a stranger, e.g, a vacation spot. I lived most of my life at one, but a beach or whatever fills the bill here, too.

Now, proceed to have fun doing something at the beach.

I’ve seen an old fat dude pick up women at a fast draw competition — because he’s literally the fastest draw in the West.

Pick your pond wisely.

It’s not that fucking hard.

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
I am still befuddled about the alpha/beta/gamma stuff, in that I would think it is highly situational and depends on what time in life it is.

I was an alpha-type in HS, the sterotypical athlete ---- but got good grades and a national merit scholarship. Got laid A LOT.

In basic training in the Army — not so much. My hand and I got to know each other a lot.

Rock climing, shooting, or riding a horse – alpha.

All fish can be a big fish. All fish can be a small fish. It just depends on the pond the fish is in.

++++++++++++++++

Regarding the whole picking up women thing, I’ve done a fair amount of picking up women in my life.

I wouldn’t know a fucking thing about picking up a girl in a club in LA, hate clubs, and probably wouldn’t try. I would be a small fish there because, well, I fucking hate that kind of place.

You just have to pick the pond where you are the big fish.

That is the most important pick up trick.

For example, I am assuming most guys here are pretty jacked. So go somewhere you can take your shirt off and not look like a complete fucktard douche – e.g., a pool, beach, chopping wood, whatever — because that is where being jacked makes you the alpha.

Next, go some place where women are seperated from their normal pack and won’t suffer from the social ramifications of getting fucked by a stranger, e.g, a vacation spot. I lived most of my life at one, but a beach or whatever fills the bill here, too.

Now, proceed to have fun doing something at the beach.

I’ve seen an old fat dude pick up women at a fast draw competition — because he’s literally the fastest draw in the West.

Pick your pond wisely.

It’s not that fucking hard.[/quote]

Excellent post, as usual.

One thing that gets left out of many discussions of “Game” is that the method most pushed on the unwashed masses is generally suited for a particular kind of environment. (Yes, orion, I know you speak of the idea more transcendentally) There are definitely other inroads available to men who meet women in less conventional scenarios.

But then, that would also have to involve wanting a bit more than to simply use the female as a sperm receptacle/ego tool.

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I feel sorry for the guy. I want to help, but I really haven’t a clue what to do.

Any advice?[/quote]

Yeah. Hang out with him less, and instead spend more time with the more socially adept “soldiers” in your crew. Stuff like transitive properties, impulse-into-action and momentum really do matter in this context.

Unless “helping others” is truly one of the core facets of your identity. In which case, expect him to drag you down (in these social contexts) far more than vice-versa.

[/quote]

Well, ok, that’s good advice in and of itself… but it wasn’t what I was asking for.

Maybe “helping others” is part of my identity. Probably not. And in this particular case, I think a good chunk of it is a) the challenge of seeing if it can be done, and b) using him as a bit of a guinea pig to test out a few ideas.

That probably makes me an asshole.

He’s a good guy, he’s on my pool team, and he’s got some connections. So, to some extent, I’m vested in his own “success”.

Is it better to go from the “address insecurities” angle, or to “fake it until you make it”? Or something else?

[quote]orion wrote:
Those of you who have been reading my blog for a while know I don�?�¢??t like the alpha-beta (or even the alpha-beta-omega) classification. By definition having just two or even three categories is not enough for describing where men are especially since with just the alpha-beta there�?�¢??s no room to describe what is happening to most men. Vox Day has come up with a much better classification system:

Alphas �?�¢?? the male elite, the leaders of men for whom women naturally lust. Their mere presence sets women a-tingle regardless of whether she is taken or not. Once you�?�¢??ve seen beautiful married women ignoring tall, handsome, wealthy, and even famous men because that ugly old troll Henry Kissinger walked in the room, you simply can�?�¢??t deny the reality of Alphadom. Example: Captain Kirk, Big from Sex in the City. Suggestion: Do you see a scoreboard? Right, so relax already!

Betas �?�¢?? the lieutenants, the petty aristocracy. They�?�¢??re popular, they do well with women, they�?�¢??re pretty successful in life, and they may even be exceptionally good-looking. But they lack the Alpha�?�¢??s natural self-confidence and strength of character. They�?�¢??re not leaders and they�?�¢??re not the men to whom women are helplessly drawn. Most men who like to think they�?�¢??re Alphas because of their success are actually Betas. Most Betas won�?�¢??t change their game because they don�?�¢??t really have any need or reason to do so. This is probably the easiest social slot in which to find yourself, since the Beta enjoys many of the benefits of Alphadom without being trapped in the Alpha�?�¢??s endless cycle of competition. Example: Brad Pitt Suggestion: Have some compassion for the less naturally fortunate. Try to include them once in awhile.

Deltas �?�¢?? the great majority of men. These are Roissy�?�¢??s Betas. Almost all of you reading this are Deltas despite the natural desire to believe that you are a brave and bold Alpha snowflake notwithstanding. Deal with it. There�?�¢??s absolutely nothing wrong with being a Delta, it�?�¢??s just a simple statistical and observable reality. The sooner you accept the truth about yourself, the sooner you will be able to control your unconscious inclinations and modify your behavior in a manner that will help you achieve your goals. I�?�¢??ve gone out of alphabetical order here because delta symbolizes change, which most Deltas are capable to some extent. Hence the synthetic alpha instruction set known as Game. Example: Probably you. Suggestion: Never forget that there are plenty of girls on the girl tree.

Gammas �?�¢?? the obsequious ones, the posterior puckerers, the nice guys who attempt to score through white-knighting, faux-chivalry, flattery, and omnipresence. All men except true Alphas will occasionally fall into Gamma behavior from time to time, this is the behavior and attitude that Roissy is attempting to teach men to recognize and avoid. The dividing line between a Gamma and a Delta is that the Gamma genuinely believes in the Gamma reality to the very core of his soul whereas the Delta is never truly comfortable with himself when he behaves in this manner despite being thoroughly indoctrinated in it by his culture. Example: Probably you if you�?�¢??ve found yourself complaining about your lack of female companionship over the last two years. Suggestion: Remember that the statement �?�¢??all are fallen�?�¢?? applies to women too. She isn�?�¢??t any more naturally pure or holy or ethereal than you are.

Lambdas �?�¢?? the gays. They have their own social hierarchy. They can fill any role from Alpha to Omega, but they tend to play the part rather than actually be it because the heterosexual social construct only encompasses the public part of their lives. Example: Neil Patrick Harris. Suggestion: Straights will be more tolerant if you keep the bathhouse behavior behind closed doors.

Sigmas �?�¢?? the lone wolves. Occasionally mistaken for Alphas, particularly by women and Alphas, they are not leaders and will actively resist the attempt of others to draft them. Alphas instinctively view them as challenges and either dislike or warily respect them. Some Deltas and most Omegas fancy themselves Sigmas, but the true Sigma�?�¢??s withdrawal from the pack is not a reaction to the way he is treated, it is pure instinct. Example: Clint Eastwood�?�¢??s movie persona. Suggestion: Entertain the possibility that other people are not always Hell. The banal idiocy is incidental, it�?�¢??s not intentional torture.

Omegas �?�¢?? the losers. Even the Gamma males despise them. That which doesn�?�¢??t kill them can make them stronger, but most never surmount the desperate need to belong caused by their social rejection. Omegas can be the most dangerous of men because the pain of their constant rejection renders the suffering of others completely meaningless in their eyes. Omegas tend to cluster in defensive groups; the dividing line between the Omega and the Sigma is twofold and can be easily recognized by a) the behavior of male Betas and Deltas and b) the behavior of women. Women tend to find outliers attractive in general, but while they respond to Sigmas almost as strongly as they do to Alphas, they correctly find Omega males creepier and much scarier than Gamma males. Example: Eric Harris Suggestion: Your rejection isn�?�¢??t entirely personal. Observe the difference in your own behavior and the way the Betas act. And try not to start off conversations with women by sharing �?�¢??interesting facts�?�¢?? with them.

While I don�?�¢??t think that even this is expressive enough to describe what we need when talking about male-female interaction (and I think the lambda category should be left out since this is about heterosexual interaction), its much better than the alpha-beta or alpha-beta-omega systems.

http://www.antifeministtech.info/2010/01/better-than-the-alpha-beta-classification/
[/quote]

The sigma one didn’t make any sense to me. Is it possible to be a different “level” in relation to men as opposed to women? Like are there guys who are beta in a crowd of men, but become gamma once a woman shows up?

[quote]csulli wrote:

The sigma one didn’t make any sense to me. Is it possible to be a different “level” in relation to men as opposed to women? Like are there guys who are beta in a crowd of men, but become gamma once a woman shows up?[/quote]

It is possible to be alpha or high beta in your relationship with men and gamma when it comes to women.

That describes me in my early 20s.

Those are the men who benefit from “game” instantly, because the moment they have their come to Jesus moment a lot falls into place instantly.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I feel sorry for the guy. I want to help, but I really haven’t a clue what to do.

Any advice?[/quote]

Yeah. Hang out with him less, and instead spend more time with the more socially adept “soldiers” in your crew. Stuff like transitive properties, impulse-into-action and momentum really do matter in this context.

Unless “helping others” is truly one of the core facets of your identity. In which case, expect him to drag you down (in these social contexts) far more than vice-versa.

[/quote]

Well, ok, that’s good advice in and of itself… but it wasn’t what I was asking for.

Maybe “helping others” is part of my identity. Probably not. And in this particular case, I think a good chunk of it is a) the challenge of seeing if it can be done, and b) using him as a bit of a guinea pig to test out a few ideas.

That probably makes me an asshole.

He’s a good guy, he’s on my pool team, and he’s got some connections. So, to some extent, I’m vested in his own “success”.

Is it better to go from the “address insecurities” angle, or to “fake it until you make it”? Or something else?[/quote]

He has to hit rock bottom.

Unless he did not have his heart ripped out he wont want to change.

Most men do not unplug from the Matrix, they get ejected forcefully.

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
I am still befuddled about the alpha/beta/gamma stuff, in that I would think it is highly situational and depends on what time in life it is.

I was an alpha-type in HS, the sterotypical athlete ---- but got good grades and a national merit scholarship. Got laid A LOT.

In basic training in the Army — not so much. My hand and I got to know each other a lot.

Rock climing, shooting, or riding a horse – alpha.

All fish can be a big fish. All fish can be a small fish. It just depends on the pond the fish is in.

++++++++++++++++

Regarding the whole picking up women thing, I’ve done a fair amount of picking up women in my life.

I wouldn’t know a fucking thing about picking up a girl in a club in LA, hate clubs, and probably wouldn’t try. I would be a small fish there because, well, I fucking hate that kind of place.

You just have to pick the pond where you are the big fish.

That is the most important pick up trick.

For example, I am assuming most guys here are pretty jacked. So go somewhere you can take your shirt off and not look like a complete fucktard douche – e.g., a pool, beach, chopping wood, whatever — because that is where being jacked makes you the alpha.

Next, go some place where women are seperated from their normal pack and won’t suffer from the social ramifications of getting fucked by a stranger, e.g, a vacation spot. I lived most of my life at one, but a beach or whatever fills the bill here, too.

Now, proceed to have fun doing something at the beach.

I’ve seen an old fat dude pick up women at a fast draw competition — because he’s literally the fastest draw in the West.

Pick your pond wisely.

It’s not that fucking hard.[/quote]

You know why I like your posts so much?

Because you are the prime example of a natural who has kind of an idea why it all works but doesntt bother to look into it too much because it all works naturally.

What you describe here is being the situational alpha, if you want to use technical terms fot it and is considered to be more advanced stuff.

It just reinforces the notion that there are no succesful men without game, just men who do not know they have it.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
I am still befuddled about the alpha/beta/gamma stuff, in that I would think it is highly situational and depends on what time in life it is.

I was an alpha-type in HS, the sterotypical athlete ---- but got good grades and a national merit scholarship. Got laid A LOT.

In basic training in the Army — not so much. My hand and I got to know each other a lot.

Rock climing, shooting, or riding a horse – alpha.

All fish can be a big fish. All fish can be a small fish. It just depends on the pond the fish is in.

++++++++++++++++

Regarding the whole picking up women thing, I’ve done a fair amount of picking up women in my life.

I wouldn’t know a fucking thing about picking up a girl in a club in LA, hate clubs, and probably wouldn’t try. I would be a small fish there because, well, I fucking hate that kind of place.

You just have to pick the pond where you are the big fish.

That is the most important pick up trick.

For example, I am assuming most guys here are pretty jacked. So go somewhere you can take your shirt off and not look like a complete fucktard douche – e.g., a pool, beach, chopping wood, whatever — because that is where being jacked makes you the alpha.

Next, go some place where women are seperated from their normal pack and won’t suffer from the social ramifications of getting fucked by a stranger, e.g, a vacation spot. I lived most of my life at one, but a beach or whatever fills the bill here, too.

Now, proceed to have fun doing something at the beach.

I’ve seen an old fat dude pick up women at a fast draw competition — because he’s literally the fastest draw in the West.

Pick your pond wisely.

It’s not that fucking hard.[/quote]

You know why I like your posts so much?

Because you are the prime example of a natural who has kind of an idea why it all works but doesntt bother to look into it too much because it all works naturally.

What you describe here is being the situational alpha, if you want to use technical terms fot it and is considered to be more advanced stuff.

It just reinforces the notion that there are no succesful men without game, just men who do not know they have it. [/quote]

“Game” is a shit word to describe people who are being sincere and still get what they want.

It implies the opposite, imo.

[quote]imhungry wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
I am still befuddled about the alpha/beta/gamma stuff, in that I would think it is highly situational and depends on what time in life it is.

I was an alpha-type in HS, the sterotypical athlete ---- but got good grades and a national merit scholarship. Got laid A LOT.

In basic training in the Army — not so much. My hand and I got to know each other a lot.

Rock climing, shooting, or riding a horse – alpha.

All fish can be a big fish. All fish can be a small fish. It just depends on the pond the fish is in.

++++++++++++++++

Regarding the whole picking up women thing, I’ve done a fair amount of picking up women in my life.

I wouldn’t know a fucking thing about picking up a girl in a club in LA, hate clubs, and probably wouldn’t try. I would be a small fish there because, well, I fucking hate that kind of place.

You just have to pick the pond where you are the big fish.

That is the most important pick up trick.

For example, I am assuming most guys here are pretty jacked. So go somewhere you can take your shirt off and not look like a complete fucktard douche – e.g., a pool, beach, chopping wood, whatever — because that is where being jacked makes you the alpha.

Next, go some place where women are seperated from their normal pack and won’t suffer from the social ramifications of getting fucked by a stranger, e.g, a vacation spot. I lived most of my life at one, but a beach or whatever fills the bill here, too.

Now, proceed to have fun doing something at the beach.

I’ve seen an old fat dude pick up women at a fast draw competition — because he’s literally the fastest draw in the West.

Pick your pond wisely.

It’s not that fucking hard.[/quote]

You know why I like your posts so much?

Because you are the prime example of a natural who has kind of an idea why it all works but doesntt bother to look into it too much because it all works naturally.

What you describe here is being the situational alpha, if you want to use technical terms fot it and is considered to be more advanced stuff.

It just reinforces the notion that there are no succesful men without game, just men who do not know they have it. [/quote]

“Game” is a shit word to describe people who are being sincere and still get what they want.

It implies the opposite, imo.
[/quote]

Thats what the people who came up with called it and it was more of a game back then…

…but, if we do not respect the men who came before us and paved the way and use the terms they used, albeit with a slightly changed meaning sometimes, what would we be if not a bunch of ungrateful manwhores and spoiled pussies.

Hell no, exactly because it is more than that now we wont change it and everyone who rejects it because of the terms used is a mangina and we dont want him anyway unless he recants his pussy pedestalizing ways.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
http://www.antifeministtech.info/2010/01/better-than-the-alpha-beta-classification/
[/quote]

Where does the ‘reluctant leader’ fit in? Sigma?
[/quote]

Yup.

[quote]orion wrote:
What you describe here is being the situational alpha, if you want to use technical terms fot it and is considered to be more advanced stuff.[/quote]

It really blows my mind that this is considered advanced stuff. It’s no wonder that a person who lacks either a) enough human capital to have experienced it first hand or b) the observational skills and social awareness or to pick up on this sort of thing without it being some sort of “secret” is struggling socially.

Orion, what proportion of people do you think lack a basic understanding of human relationships?

[quote]NAUn wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
What you describe here is being the situational alpha, if you want to use technical terms fot it and is considered to be more advanced stuff.[/quote]

It really blows my mind that this is considered advanced stuff. It’s no wonder that a person who lacks either a) enough human capital to have experienced it first hand or b) the observational skills and social awareness or to pick up on this sort of thing without it being some sort of “secret” is struggling socially.

Orion, what proportion of people do you think lack a basic understanding of human relationships?[/quote]

I dont know.

I cant put it in numbers but I know that there a whole lot of guys whose first lessons include stuff like dressing somewhat decently, going out and saying hi.

Then, striking up small conversations about completely harmless stuff.

If you cannot even do that, the stuff he described is not advanced, it is literally unthinkable for them.

I dont really blame them, imagine being an extremely nerdy shy guy and making an attempt to get to know girls at 15 or 16. Naturally they follow the official script and get blown out of the water brutally by their female peers because there is no way they could compete with the cock sure attitude of the little teenage assholes those girls willingly spread their legs for.

If you start out that way, all you know is that girls are a world of pain and rejection and playing Warcraft and getting baked with your friends is fun so they get very good at WOW and suck at this whole girl thing.

You have to imagine what incredible leap a rather innocent, shy boy of 15-16 years would actually have to make to compete with the natural born assclown.

This boy is thinking holding hands and kissing, the playa is thinking ass to mouth.

The boy is wondering whether she likes him, the playa knows that she does and is already circling in on her little sister wondering whether a threesome is in there somehwere if he plays his cards right.

Both are in a self reinforcing feed back loop, both avoid pain and seek pleasure and get very good at what they are doing.

I’d be very interested in reading an Alpha/Beta thread

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I considered starting a thread about this whole “Alpha/Beta” thing, but it’s probably not worth it. I get the common usage, but on the “Beta” side it’s just seems inaccurate to me. Beta wolves are strong, aggressive, capable animals who are constantly challenging the Alpha Male for social dominance and trying to mate with the Alpha female. They basically have everything it takes to be the Alpha, but there happens to be one animal that has just a little more. This can actually make them more overtly aggressive than the Alpha, as they are, I believe, pissed of about this fact and constantly seeking to prove themselves and knock the Alpha out of the top slot.

The kind of weak, submissive, generally pathetic behaviour that seems to get described as “Beta” is actually characteristic of the Omega wolf, the lowest dog in the hierarchy. I suspect that most guys who consider themselves Alpha are actually more Beta as they likely know at least one guy who is even just slightly more socially dominant than they are. It seems improbable that we are all the biggest fish in our respective social ponds. I realize that this is pretty trivial, but it bugs me a little. I’m a dork like that. That is all. Continue.[/quote]

Well then, indulge in your dorkish ways, the internet has answered your prayers:

Those of you who have been reading my blog for a while know I donâ??t like the alpha-beta (or even the alpha-beta-omega) classification. By definition having just two or even three categories is not enough for describing where men are especially since with just the alpha-beta thereâ??s no room to describe what is happening to most men. Vox Day has come up with a much better classification system:

Alphas â?? the male elite, the leaders of men for whom women naturally lust. Their mere presence sets women a-tingle regardless of whether she is taken or not. Once youâ??ve seen beautiful married women ignoring tall, handsome, wealthy, and even famous men because that ugly old troll Henry Kissinger walked in the room, you simply canâ??t deny the reality of Alphadom. Example: Captain Kirk, Big from Sex in the City. Suggestion: Do you see a scoreboard? Right, so relax already!

Betas â?? the lieutenants, the petty aristocracy. Theyâ??re popular, they do well with women, theyâ??re pretty successful in life, and they may even be exceptionally good-looking. But they lack the Alphaâ??s natural self-confidence and strength of character. Theyâ??re not leaders and theyâ??re not the men to whom women are helplessly drawn. Most men who like to think theyâ??re Alphas because of their success are actually Betas. Most Betas wonâ??t change their game because they donâ??t really have any need or reason to do so. This is probably the easiest social slot in which to find yourself, since the Beta enjoys many of the benefits of Alphadom without being trapped in the Alphaâ??s endless cycle of competition. Example: Brad Pitt Suggestion: Have some compassion for the less naturally fortunate. Try to include them once in awhile.

Deltas â?? the great majority of men. These are Roissyâ??s Betas. Almost all of you reading this are Deltas despite the natural desire to believe that you are a brave and bold Alpha snowflake notwithstanding. Deal with it. Thereâ??s absolutely nothing wrong with being a Delta, itâ??s just a simple statistical and observable reality. The sooner you accept the truth about yourself, the sooner you will be able to control your unconscious inclinations and modify your behavior in a manner that will help you achieve your goals. Iâ??ve gone out of alphabetical order here because delta symbolizes change, which most Deltas are capable to some extent. Hence the synthetic alpha instruction set known as Game. Example: Probably you. Suggestion: Never forget that there are plenty of girls on the girl tree.

Gammas â?? the obsequious ones, the posterior puckerers, the nice guys who attempt to score through white-knighting, faux-chivalry, flattery, and omnipresence. All men except true Alphas will occasionally fall into Gamma behavior from time to time, this is the behavior and attitude that Roissy is attempting to teach men to recognize and avoid. The dividing line between a Gamma and a Delta is that the Gamma genuinely believes in the Gamma reality to the very core of his soul whereas the Delta is never truly comfortable with himself when he behaves in this manner despite being thoroughly indoctrinated in it by his culture. Example: Probably you if youâ??ve found yourself complaining about your lack of female companionship over the last two years. Suggestion: Remember that the statement â??all are fallenâ?? applies to women too. She isnâ??t any more naturally pure or holy or ethereal than you are.

Lambdas â?? the gays. They have their own social hierarchy. They can fill any role from Alpha to Omega, but they tend to play the part rather than actually be it because the heterosexual social construct only encompasses the public part of their lives. Example: Neil Patrick Harris. Suggestion: Straights will be more tolerant if you keep the bathhouse behavior behind closed doors.

Sigmas â?? the lone wolves. Occasionally mistaken for Alphas, particularly by women and Alphas, they are not leaders and will actively resist the attempt of others to draft them. Alphas instinctively view them as challenges and either dislike or warily respect them. Some Deltas and most Omegas fancy themselves Sigmas, but the true Sigmaâ??s withdrawal from the pack is not a reaction to the way he is treated, it is pure instinct. Example: Clint Eastwoodâ??s movie persona. Suggestion: Entertain the possibility that other people are not always Hell. The banal idiocy is incidental, itâ??s not intentional torture.

Omegas â?? the losers. Even the Gamma males despise them. That which doesnâ??t kill them can make them stronger, but most never surmount the desperate need to belong caused by their social rejection. Omegas can be the most dangerous of men because the pain of their constant rejection renders the suffering of others completely meaningless in their eyes. Omegas tend to cluster in defensive groups; the dividing line between the Omega and the Sigma is twofold and can be easily recognized by a) the behavior of male Betas and Deltas and b) the behavior of women. Women tend to find outliers attractive in general, but while they respond to Sigmas almost as strongly as they do to Alphas, they correctly find Omega males creepier and much scarier than Gamma males. Example: Eric Harris Suggestion: Your rejection isnâ??t entirely personal. Observe the difference in your own behavior and the way the Betas act. And try not to start off conversations with women by sharing â??interesting factsâ?? with them.

While I donâ??t think that even this is expressive enough to describe what we need when talking about male-female interaction (and I think the lambda category should be left out since this is about heterosexual interaction), its much better than the alpha-beta or alpha-beta-omega systems.

http://www.antifeministtech.info/2010/01/better-than-the-alpha-beta-classification/

[/quote]

Hmmm. That’s really interesting and well thought out. Thanks for that. I was really only thinking in terms of my limited knowledge of the actual animal behaviours from which I assume these terms are derived and (IMO often mis-)applied to human relations. As far as I know in an wolf pack there is an an Alpha, a Beta varying numbers of “Subordinates” in descending order and, last, an Omega.

This guy obviously takes it much further than that, which makes sense as human social structure and status is obviously far more complex than that of wolves. Kinda surprised to see so much interest and discussion.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]NAUn wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
What you describe here is being the situational alpha, if you want to use technical terms fot it and is considered to be more advanced stuff.[/quote]

It really blows my mind that this is considered advanced stuff. It’s no wonder that a person who lacks either a) enough human capital to have experienced it first hand or b) the observational skills and social awareness or to pick up on this sort of thing without it being some sort of “secret” is struggling socially.

Orion, what proportion of people do you think lack a basic understanding of human relationships?[/quote]

LOL at the Dear Orion Advice Column![/quote]

I think you misunderstood my post.