i just got some letro for my 10 week 500mg test cyp cycle and it comes in 1.25mg caps, and I’ve been told and have read that .25mg is plenty. So can i take this 1.25mg cap every 5 days?? oram i going to have to open it up and split the 1.25mg into 5 doses, which is both difficult and wasteful?? Thanks
Letro is difficult to dose - and i dont necessarily mean physically.
It is unpredictable in that in some it causes near total suppression of aromatase in doses of <100mcg. In others it takes more.
I use it so i can tell you what works for me but in all honesty it does not mean it will be a correct dosing practice for you. Trial and error will have to be your guide, and i hope you are adept at recognising the symptoms of both high estrogen and low estrogen in order to evaluate your dosing correctly… 
I find that on a moderate-heavy cycle (for me means 500-1000mg/wk aromatisable AAS) that 0.15mg to 0.25mg EOD seems to do the job. I would take more probably but i find if i dose above 0.2mg ED i have a severe reduction in sex drive.
I use a liquid product and i seriously could not deal with a pill form in the doses i need to use it. I believe BR (Bill Roberts) uses Letro regularly in a pill form - maybe you could ask him about the logistics of that.
BTW… it takes weeks to attain a stable blood level - which IME is noticeable once achieved - but before that i would say dosing would be best daily in order to achieve the stable levels as soon as possible.
It does have a long half life but not long enough for E5D whilst using (relatively large doses of) aromatisable AAS IMO.
Brook
No it is a good dose of letro - as i said i use less than that EOD. Letro is much more powerful than Adex mg for mg.
I think letro is the tricky one and adex is much easier to dose* as it gives stable levels quicker and is more reliable in dosing for those who are not sure of effect.
*For someone who is using an AI for the first time they may be better with adex as letro can be inconsistent across users. (but once you know how you react to it, it is as good as any other AI(and as you mentioned BBB, BR believes it is better)
I am pretty sure i have it the right way around but i could be wrong of course.
Brook
If I recall correctly, the study quoting 100mcg of Letrozole causing undetectable levels of estrogen, was not a sudy on men. In my mind it renders that study useless for our purposes. I will have to check and make for certain though.
There are a few studies that have been done on obese hypogaonadal men. The dosages of Letrozole ranged from 2.5mg/week to something like 17mg or more per week. I don’t believe any of these dosing protocols caused undetectable levels of estrogen in the men. Of course, a leaner man would most likely require 2.5mg/week or less.
My interest in Letrozole started when Bill Roberts posted about Anastrozole causing stomach problems in those taking it. In the past year I have been having stomach issues that I could not for the life of me figure out the source of. Well, long story short, I stopped the Anastrozole and I have not had any issues for a while.
I have not used Letrozole while on cycle as of yet, but am currently using it off cycle at 2.5mg/week. The liquid formula I am using is dosed at 2.5mg/mL and one mL is equal to 54 drops. I take eight drops per day. I have not had any issues that would indicate signifigantly low estrogen levels. I have just successfully come off after being on for nearly seven months, and believe that the Letrozole has really helped with recovery. I will post about this some soon though, as I would like to comment on my experince for everyone.
I will try and find the links to the studies I mentioned and post them here. I don’t think Letrozole is the severe estrogen killer everyone believes it to be. If I can buy one bottle of Letrozole and have it last me nearly a year, than I could save a lot of money and my stomach. I will be experimenting with Letrozole on cycle soon, but have to get through the three bottles of Anastrozole I already have.
if you have 1.25 mg caps…i’d personally lean towards 1/2 of one EOD, for 500 mg test/week.
however, you’d be better suited trading that letro in for a-dex or a-sin. They are much easier to dose and are easier on your lipid profile
Here is the infamous study where estrogen levels were reduced to undetectable levels. The problem is the dose of Letrozole is not given. This guy could have been given 100mg/day for all we know. If anyone has been in contact with the Weill Medical College of Cornell University and knows the dose used, I would love to know.
Here is one using 2.5mg/day in HIV-infected men with raised estradiol and low sexual desire. The reseachers stated that there were no adverse events from the medication. I would take that to mean that estrogen levels stayed within normal range. I do not have access to the full text, If anyone does I would like to know if that is true.
Here we have a study involving severely obese men with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism. The doses used ranged from 7.5 to 17.5mg/week. None of the men had estrogen levels out of the normal range after six weeks of treatment.
Here is another involving obese men with hypogonadism. This one used 2.5mg/week of Letrozole. None of the test subjects were out of the normal range after six months of treatment.
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yeah I’m leaning towards either 1 cap E3D or 1/2 of one EOD. I used letro on my last cycle but i was able to get .5 mg tabs whcih i could split up and take ED so it was much easier. never tried adex but might give it a go on my next cycle. And Brook I too tried taking more than .25 mg ED and it really hurt the libido, mind you that was less test…
Thanks again
Yep, it seems to be the case for me - although i will add i am on a number of prescription meds that are known to affect libido.
I just know what works for me - i totally respect the advice and knowledge of WHB though… and i agree - there is no way to know for sure the estrogen ‘suppression’ without bloods, and as letro is so inconsistent in its effectiveness, bloods are generally needed to know what accurate dosing is in an individual.
Brook
I usualy run it at 1.25mg E3d.
interesting.
Caladin, what AAS do you use generally while using that dose, and does it affect libido?
How is it when i used 250mg sust a WEEK 7 years ago and got gyno symptoms… yet i dont get it on a gram of aromatisable drugs with only 200mcg/d of letro…?
Is that the inconsistent dosing that it is known for?!
Brook
Actually I use a liquid form, at what should work out to about 0.36 mg/day, working out to about 2.5 mg total per week.
That is my dose when “off.” When using substantial testosterone, I double it. The doubling not being a scientific value, just an estimate. (When an inhibitor is of the competitive type, if the amount of substrate, in this case testosterone, increases, the amount of inhibitor needs to increase also to avoid an increase in conversion.)
seems like a wide range of doses between you all. from .2 to just over .6 ed.
question though, why the dosing when not on aas?
thanks…
Because:
-
It can increase testosterone if, as is likel, estrogen levels were above the low end of normal and thus partially suppressing LH. The effect can be pretty marked.
-
If estrogen levels are above the low end of normal, it is desirable to get them down there (but not below) anyway even if free T weren’t increased.
i see, thanks Mr. Roberts. as for dosing for someone running thier first cycle (500mg test enth for 12 weeks) would they use this from day one or would a few week waitiong period be recomended? or would one start dosing at the first sign of sides??? i read the ai and serm sticky and was a little confused at what this meant " and it needs to be taken for up to 60 days to get a steady blood plasma level". sounds like one could start taking it after 2 or 3 weeks of the cycle, right?
thanks again…
There’s really no reason not to start immediately.
It’s a general property of drugs that if there is no front-loading employed then it takes a few half-lives to get blood levels fairly close to the steady-state levels and even more half-lives to get fully up there. I don’t recall what the half-life of letrozole is but it’s fairly long, at least 4 days I’m pretty sure.
So if one had immediate need then one would front-load.
However, if either one is using it off-cycle or as a “natural” to boost testosterone and keep estrogen low-normal, or if one is using it during a cycle but also is using a SERM for gyno protection, then having the letrozole levels only slowly ramp up is no problem, so front-loading isn’t needed. (Unless one specifically did not want the levels only slowly ramping up but wanted the planned steady-state effect occurring right away.)
The reference others made to starting a SERM at “first sign of sides” presumably means first noticing irritation of the nipples.
thank you sir. very helpfull.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
There’s really no reason not to start immediately.
It’s a general property of drugs that if there is no front-loading employed then it takes a few half-lives to get blood levels fairly close to the steady-state levels and even more half-lives to get fully up there. I don’t recall what the half-life of letrozole is but it’s fairly long, at least 4 days I’m pretty sure.
So if one had immediate need then one would front-load.
However, if either one is using it off-cycle or as a “natural” to boost testosterone and keep estrogen low-normal, or if one is using it during a cycle but also is using a SERM for gyno protection, then having the letrozole levels only slowly ramp up is no problem, so front-loading isn’t needed. (Unless one specifically did not want the levels only slowly ramping up but wanted the planned steady-state effect occurring right away.)
The reference others made to starting a SERM at “first sign of sides” presumably means first noticing irritation of the nipples.[/quote]
Regarding use as a ‘natural’ test booster:
Letrozole works by inhibiting the aromatase enzyme, thus the production of estrogen, and the subsequence increase of test (as less test is converted to estrogen).
With the half life of 4 days or what ever it is, would one who is using letro ‘naturally’, see increasing test levels the longer letro is used for? As the quantity of letro in the body would increase and stack over a period of months, and the accumulation of test? Or am i missing a key physiological issue?
Cheers