Sorry man I’m quite and drunk and my keys are too close together. I’m gonna edit my original post that you quoted.
No worries. I’ve been guilty of a little buzzed writing over the last two months as well. I don’t mix alcohol with handling firearms, but I will mix alcohol with talking about them.
In the USA you just have to conduct yourself reasonably. Having a good lawyer helps too, but good conduct remains my #1 self-defense tool whether I’m out-and-about minding my own business or picking up a shift at the bar.
I think the USA has a good set of laws governing self-defense and lethal force. If you disagree, feel free to start another thread and I’ll go at it with you there.
Let’s stay on topic now, shall we!
I tend to believe this is the case. They could have just opened fire on him if they wanted him dead.
Assuming for the moment this is the case then it shows just how stupid they really are. I always thought it was common knowledge, especially among gun owners, that you don’t point a weapon at someone unless you intend to use it (which implies you have a justifiable reason to use it). You don’t point a gun at someone if your sole intention is to scare them. He was running away so he was already scared off. Of course brandishing a weapon can de-escalate a potential lethal force situation but in this case, it created one.
Perhaps, but we can only speculate at this point. It is also possible that the jogger was up to no good somehow, and had the bad luck of being confronted by three untrained idiots with guns. Maybe something else happened. Who knows?
This is a case worth shining a bright light on in my opinion.
It’s possible the young man who was murdered was actually a thief, but this level of vigilante justice is not acceptable. I’ve read about this case on some gun forums I lurk on, and the vast majority of comments are that these three men acted in a manner that was breath takingly stupid, at the minimum.
Further evidence of their stupidity, tge previous burglary they refer two was the 34 year old son had a revolver stolen out of his unlocked vehicle several weeks earlier. Unsecured firearm in an unsecured vehicle? Good job genius.
I agree 100 percent.
That’s why I’d like to stick to the facts as they become known here. It is a case that stinks to high heaven from what I can detect right now.
Sage advice
I agree. Something looks to have gone very wrong here.
The above story brings up an interesting point, for me.
If the police use a no-knock warrant where they can enter your residence without identifying themselves, and you cover them with a legally owned gun (as you dont know they are cops) an obvious shootout will occur.
Would it be legal to fire upon cops if they do not identify themselves on a no-knock warrant?
I don’t want to speak definitively on something I’ve never looked into, but it can be, under certain circumstances.
Reading the article the police did verbally identify as police, in addition to knocking during the “no knock warrant”.
The warrant contained a “no-knock” provision, which allows police to enter a home without identifying themselves. Officers said they knocked on the door several times and “announced their presence as police who were there with a search warrant.” But when no one came to the door, the police forced their way in and “were immediately met by gunfire,” Lt. Ted Eidem said at a March 13 press conference. One officer was shot and wounded in the leg.
The shot was fired by Walker, who, according to his lawyer, was licensed to have a firearm and fired in self-defense, believing the intruders were burglars. Walker has been charged with first-degree assault and attempted murder of a police officer.
Remember that being charged with a crime is not convicted. Presumably he will have the chance to be tried in court by a jury of his peers.
I imagine a lot of this will boil down to whether or not your actions were reasonable.
For a high-profile acquittal, look to what happened to Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge.
Weaver was charged with multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident – a total of ten counts, including the original firearms charges. Attorney Gerry Spence handled Weaver’s defense, and successfully argued that Weaver’s actions were justifiable as self-defense.
Wow - I will admit when I saw that you can secure “no knock” warrant my original thought was:
“Wow that’s dangerous in a culture where gun owner ship is massively high”
But I guess this is where the law enforcement and the judiciary have to play their part. Would you serve a no knock warrant on a law abiding citizen with no record of criminality? I doubt it.
Would you serve a no knock warrant on someone that’s going to open fire on police any way. Possibly.
Sorry if this is of topic. However its kind of on topic. I mean - the police must secure every person in that house before someone access a weapon. Other wise that when “incidents” happen.
This is a related topic but I don’t want to go too far into the rabbit hole of policy. I think it is reasonable to believe that there is a legitimate need for no knock warrants from a tactical perspective. There’s some seriously bad people out there and I’m willing to entertain the possibility that no knock warrants save more lives than they take.
It is obvious that it leaves the possibility for really bad outcomes as well. That’s part of why violence sucks. It is not predictable nor are there any guarantees as the violence escalates.
100% my thoughts.
On the surface no knock warrants only ever go one way.
BUT there are some situations that are only ever going that way anyway. Might as well take the advantage and make is a surprise for the bad guy!
And again you are right. Rabbit hole best avoided.
It is odd that the cops knocked, and announced their presence and apparently waited for a reply during a no-knock warrant. That delay gave the homeowner enough time to access his presumably properly stored, legal weapon and fire upon them when entering. Had they just barged in, no law abiding citizen is sitting on the couch watching cartoons locked and loaded.
Why would you say this? Now that my kid is a grown man I’m only concerned with safe storage if I have children over, which is rare and always announced in-advance, like when my nieces visit from Boston.
Otherwise I store my guns in a manner that will give me the most benefit in a three story home.
We’re getting into speculation here. I’ll be curious to see how this case plays out in court.
But you might go to the wrong house or have been given false information by a criminal who is trying to have the courts go easy on him.
Or, you could wait until they leave their home and catch them off guard in the open instead of giving them a defensive position and access to who knows how many weapons and how much ammo as well as endanger any children inside.
I don’t find it surprising that the person filming has finally been brought up on charges. This article didn’t say what type of murder charges, only “felony” murder. I suppose that’s modern reporting for you. At least we know they weren’t misdemeanor murder charges. False imprisonment was the other charge.
Felony murder is its own “type,” used when someone is killed during another crime.
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Interesting. I didn’t realize that. Further reading required.
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It may not be “applicable,” or part of the criminal code in Maine.
I just did a quick search and apparently it’s pretty controversial, and there is a perception that it’s used too aggressively against young offenders and minorities.
I’m not eloquent enough to really explain the whole race/crime/law enforcement situation in the South, buts its kind of significant, or unusual to see this level of prosecution in this kind of case.