He has the best resume of anyone in the UFC’s HW division. Gonzaga, Nelson, Cro Cop, Werdum, Struve, Gilbert Yvel. And he has four knockouts in the UFC.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]krazylarry wrote:
Rooting for Brock and I think he will take it. IMO only Carwin and JDS has the skill set to beat Lesnar in the UFC. [/quote]
Man, I don’t see why everyone likes Dos Santos. He beat a disinterested, old CroCop [who actually had him hurt in the 1st round but then stopped fighting?], Roy Nelson, and who else? And just 'cause Werdum subbed Fedor doesn’t mean Dos Santos would’ve ko’d Fedor. I feel like Dos Santos is the most overrated HW in the UFC.[/quote]
I could not agree with you more.
I think this is easier to call than the Lesnar/Carwin fight.
Velasquez has never fought anyone as big and powerful as Lesnar, or more importantly anyone who has a better wrestling pedigree. Velasquez has the superior stand up game by far. But we’ve all seen how well Lesnar can take a punch by weathering the incredible bombs that Carwin dropped on him.
That means that Lesnar will be well able to take several shots from Velasquez and keep coming. Once on the ground, and it will get to the ground sooner rather than later, Velasquez will be in a strange position. Not unlike Carwin who found himself literally flat on his back, Velasquez will be in foreign territory once he’s taken down.
Those who think that Velasquez will be able to stuff Lesnar’s take down as Carwin did early on must keep two things in mind: First, Velasquez while being a gifted wrestler is not quite up to Lesnar’s level. Velasquez highest NCAA finish was 4th place with a three year record of 86-17. This places him below Lesnar who has a college wrestling record of 106-5 with one 2nd place and one 1st place Division One championship. Clearly Lesnar is the better wrestler. This will be the decisive factor in the fight I believe.
Secondly, Unlike Carwin who virtually matched Lesnars size and power, Velasquez at 6’2" and 245 will be the smaller and less powerful of the two. But honestly I don’t think size is as much a factor as many think. As I feel that Lesnar moves like a middle weight when he’s on the ground and will be able to match Velasquez in the speed department.
One final point. The Brock Lesnar that we saw against Shane Carwin had not had a fight in about a year and was also coming off a life threatening illness. I think we’ll even see a better Lesnar against Cain Velasquez. As we’ve already seen Lesnar seems to get better with each fight. He’s still new to the sport and will just keep getting better.
Prediction: Some point between the first and third round Lesnar will most likely win by ground and pound. But the longer it goes Velasquez has the opportunity to do some serious damage with his incredibly fast and skillful hands.
I’m going to place a bundle on Lesnar to win this fight.
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Uhh, you do realize that until he gassed himself Carwin not only stuffed Lesnars takedowns he beat the shit out of him as well, right? I don’t think Velasquez is the guy to beat Lesnar. Think we’re gonna have to wait for the Carwin/Lesnar rematch. Lesnar’s just too big and strong for Velasquez’s gameplan. Unless he surprises everyone and knocks him out, but I just don’t see that happening.[/quote]
Yes, I watched this fight.
Carwin is also a Gorilla.[/quote]
Carwin smashed his melon sized fists into brock so hard for five minutes his body seized up on him. Brock knew he would have to weather a storm of fists, he did for five minutes and then walked straight back to the center of the ring and dominated the guy. That is what champions do. In thousands of fights I have never seen that kind of mental fortitude. Every other fighter in the division would crumple and quit after getting caught in that position by carwin. Brock just took it. Do you remember how pissed he sounded that his corner would even ASK how he was doing after that first round. Carwin Lesnar rematch is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I’d bet money he wont ever get back there. Junior and cain have the best chance to beat brock (not that they will) due to their superior striking skills combined with much quicker feet than anyone brock has faced. I’m saying all of this with Cain having been my favorite in the UFC since the rothwell beating. I dont think he can keep brock standing long enough unless he has put on about 30 pounds in the last few months.
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Uhh, you do realize that until he gassed himself Carwin not only stuffed Lesnars takedowns he beat the shit out of him as well, right? I don’t think Velasquez is the guy to beat Lesnar. Think we’re gonna have to wait for the Carwin/Lesnar rematch. Lesnar’s just too big and strong for Velasquez’s gameplan. Unless he surprises everyone and knocks him out, but I just don’t see that happening.[/quote]
Yes, I watched this fight.
Carwin is also a Gorilla.[/quote]
Carwin smashed his melon sized fists into brock so hard for five minutes his body seized up on him. Brock knew he would have to weather a storm of fists, he did for five minutes and then walked straight back to the center of the ring and dominated the guy. That is what champions do. In thousands of fights I have never seen that kind of mental fortitude. Every other fighter in the division would crumple and quit after getting caught in that position by carwin. Brock just took it. Do you remember how pissed he sounded that his corner would even ASK how he was doing after that first round. Carwin Lesnar rematch is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I’d bet money he wont ever get back there. Junior and cain have the best chance to beat brock (not that they will) due to their superior striking skills combined with much quicker feet than anyone brock has faced. I’m saying all of this with Cain having been my favorite in the UFC since the rothwell beating. I dont think he can keep brock standing long enough unless he has put on about 30 pounds in the last few months.[/quote]
QFT.
JDS and Cain both represent the lighter, faster, more mobile heavyweights, however, Brock is big and just as mobile. His standup will only continue to improve, but if anyone thought he was going to win the Carwin fight in a striking battle, I can only say quit smokin that shit. Carwin had never been past the 1st round, so what do you do to beat him? Take him past the 1st. With Cain, I see Brock closing the distance and taking him down immediately. From there, good ol’ GnP. Cain hasn’t spent much, if any time on his back. Like all fights, it can go either way, but I’m rooting for Brock on this one.
I was picking Cain, until I remembered what happened in the Carwin fight. I don’t think Cain can finish Brock on the feet (or via GNP for that matter), so if he wins it’ll likely be by decision, trading leather and avoiding the takedown. I have doubts about Lesnar actually being able to score a TD on Cain since, for all his athleticsm, he doesn’t have the kind of fluidity to transition between a strike and a double (e.g: GSP, Rashad, BJ, Frankie).
Nevertheless, he always has the clinch, and has the option of imposing his 30lb weight advantage on Cain against the cage.
I say Brock takes it, too big, too strong, better wrestling, too much motivation. Cain would win if this was just about technique, but it isn’t.
The HW’s have a bunch of interesting matchups come to think of it. Between Cain, Lesnar, Carwin and JDS, we’ve seen maybe 3 weeknesses within their fights, mostly because of the dominance they’ve shown. The UFC did a great job building up this title picture.
I would like to see how Brock holds up in the later rounds. On the inside access thing on spike they did all the guys were saying they both were cardio freaks, but who wouldnt hype up their own fighter.
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I would like to see how Brock holds up in the later rounds. On the inside access thing on spike they did all the guys were saying they both were cardio freaks, but who wouldnt hype up their own fighter.[/quote]
I would like to just see the fight go to the later rounds.
If this fight ends with ground n’ pound in the first round, I’m gonna be pissed.
Brock. because he has a whole month now…
I hate how some people nut-hug Cain. It’s hard to judge the guy because he’s literally faced semi-decent competition. Beating Ben Rothwell isn’t saying much. The Cain Train (see what I did there?) took off after he TKO’d Big Nog. Honestly, Big Nog made him the ultimate heavyweight? I have to think that people’s vision is deteriorating at a rapid pace.
Big Nog has become a slow-moving punching bag. The man stands there and withstands so much punishment. His fighting age is much, much higher than his actual one. TKOing Big Nog isn’t saying much since Frank Mir did the same. There is literally nothing to make me think that Cain more than a 10% chance of beating Brock Lesnar.
As for JDS, the dude has a solid resume. He’s actually KO’d notable people such as Gonzaga and Werdum. Someone might hate on Gonzaga but look who has KO’d him: Couture, Carwin, and Werdum (twice). Werdum, in the last 4 years, has lost to Big Nog (2006), Arvlosi (2007), and Dos Santos (2008). So, how is JDS, who has a more accomplished resume, more overrated than Cain or can even be labeled as the most overrated HW?
Anyway, Brock by 2nd TKO. Only man who can beat him is Carwin with a reliable gas tank.
[quote]Perpalicious wrote:
I hate how some people nut-hug Cain. It’s hard to judge the guy because he’s literally faced semi-decent competition. Beating Ben Rothwell isn’t saying much. The Cain Train (see what I did there?) took off after he TKO’d Big Nog. Honestly, Big Nog made him the ultimate heavyweight? I have to think that people’s vision is deteriorating at a rapid pace.
Big Nog has become a slow-moving punching bag. The man stands there and withstands so much punishment. His fighting age is much, much higher than his actual one. TKOing Big Nog isn’t saying much since Frank Mir did the same. There is literally nothing to make me think that Cain more than a 10% chance of beating Brock Lesnar.
As for JDS, the dude has a solid resume. He’s actually KO’d notable people such as Gonzaga and Werdum. Someone might hate on Gonzaga but look who has KO’d him: Couture, Carwin, and Werdum (twice). Werdum, in the last 4 years, has lost to Big Nog (2006), Arvlosi (2007), and Dos Santos (2008). So, how is JDS, who has a more accomplished resume, more overrated than Cain or can even be labeled as the most overrated HW?
Anyway, Brock by 2nd TKO. Only man who can beat him is Carwin with a reliable gas tank. [/quote]
It’s more of how he is beating people not necessarily who.
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Uhh, you do realize that until he gassed himself Carwin not only stuffed Lesnars takedowns he beat the shit out of him as well, right? I don’t think Velasquez is the guy to beat Lesnar. Think we’re gonna have to wait for the Carwin/Lesnar rematch. Lesnar’s just too big and strong for Velasquez’s gameplan. Unless he surprises everyone and knocks him out, but I just don’t see that happening.[/quote]
Yes, I watched this fight.
Carwin is also a Gorilla.[/quote]
Carwin smashed his melon sized fists into brock so hard for five minutes his body seized up on him. Brock knew he would have to weather a storm of fists, he did for five minutes and then walked straight back to the center of the ring and dominated the guy. That is what champions do. In thousands of fights I have never seen that kind of mental fortitude. Every other fighter in the division would crumple and quit after getting caught in that position by carwin. Brock just took it. Do you remember how pissed he sounded that his corner would even ASK how he was doing after that first round. Carwin Lesnar rematch is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I’d bet money he wont ever get back there. Junior and cain have the best chance to beat brock (not that they will) due to their superior striking skills combined with much quicker feet than anyone brock has faced. I’m saying all of this with Cain having been my favorite in the UFC since the rothwell beating. I dont think he can keep brock standing long enough unless he has put on about 30 pounds in the last few months.[/quote]
QFT.
JDS and Cain both represent the lighter, faster, more mobile heavyweights, however, Brock is big and just as mobile. His standup will only continue to improve, but if anyone thought he was going to win the Carwin fight in a striking battle, I can only say quit smokin that shit. Carwin had never been past the 1st round, so what do you do to beat him? Take him past the 1st. With Cain, I see Brock closing the distance and taking him down immediately. From there, good ol’ GnP. Cain hasn’t spent much, if any time on his back. Like all fights, it can go either way, but I’m rooting for Brock on this one. [/quote]
Brock’s standup has gotten as good as it’s gonna get. Just like not everyone can be a genetic freak of nature, not everyone’s technique will improve. Brock was fucking hurt in the first round, he survived by a cunt hair, and props to him, he turned it around. But trying to pretend he wasn’t legitimately in danger is ridiculous.
So tell me, why is a rematch between Lesnar and an improved Carwin dumb?
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Uhh, you do realize that until he gassed himself Carwin not only stuffed Lesnars takedowns he beat the shit out of him as well, right? I don’t think Velasquez is the guy to beat Lesnar. Think we’re gonna have to wait for the Carwin/Lesnar rematch. Lesnar’s just too big and strong for Velasquez’s gameplan. Unless he surprises everyone and knocks him out, but I just don’t see that happening.[/quote]
Yes, I watched this fight.
Carwin is also a Gorilla.[/quote]
Carwin smashed his melon sized fists into brock so hard for five minutes his body seized up on him. Brock knew he would have to weather a storm of fists, he did for five minutes and then walked straight back to the center of the ring and dominated the guy. That is what champions do. In thousands of fights I have never seen that kind of mental fortitude. Every other fighter in the division would crumple and quit after getting caught in that position by carwin. Brock just took it. Do you remember how pissed he sounded that his corner would even ASK how he was doing after that first round. Carwin Lesnar rematch is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I’d bet money he wont ever get back there. Junior and cain have the best chance to beat brock (not that they will) due to their superior striking skills combined with much quicker feet than anyone brock has faced. I’m saying all of this with Cain having been my favorite in the UFC since the rothwell beating. I dont think he can keep brock standing long enough unless he has put on about 30 pounds in the last few months.[/quote]
QFT.
JDS and Cain both represent the lighter, faster, more mobile heavyweights, however, Brock is big and just as mobile. His standup will only continue to improve, but if anyone thought he was going to win the Carwin fight in a striking battle, I can only say quit smokin that shit. Carwin had never been past the 1st round, so what do you do to beat him? Take him past the 1st. With Cain, I see Brock closing the distance and taking him down immediately. From there, good ol’ GnP. Cain hasn’t spent much, if any time on his back. Like all fights, it can go either way, but I’m rooting for Brock on this one. [/quote]
Brock’s standup has gotten as good as it’s gonna get. Just like not everyone can be a genetic freak of nature, not everyone’s technique will improve. Brock was fucking hurt in the first round, he survived by a cunt hair, and props to him, he turned it around. But trying to pretend he wasn’t legitimately in danger is ridiculous.
So tell me, why is a rematch between Lesnar and an improved Carwin dumb?[/quote]
Exactly. And, if people remember Carwin only landed one shot flush that literally stiffened Lesnar up and had him running away, then spent the rest of the 1st wailing on Lesnar’s forearms/fists. If [and when] they fight again I’ll bet anyone on this site any amount of money that Carwin ko’s Lesnar. I agree that Lesnar defended the storm probably as well as anyone could’ve, but let’s not act like Lesnar didn’t completely get away with one there.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Uhh, you do realize that until he gassed himself Carwin not only stuffed Lesnars takedowns he beat the shit out of him as well, right? I don’t think Velasquez is the guy to beat Lesnar. Think we’re gonna have to wait for the Carwin/Lesnar rematch. Lesnar’s just too big and strong for Velasquez’s gameplan. Unless he surprises everyone and knocks him out, but I just don’t see that happening.[/quote]
Yes, I watched this fight.
Carwin is also a Gorilla.[/quote]
Carwin smashed his melon sized fists into brock so hard for five minutes his body seized up on him. Brock knew he would have to weather a storm of fists, he did for five minutes and then walked straight back to the center of the ring and dominated the guy. That is what champions do. In thousands of fights I have never seen that kind of mental fortitude. Every other fighter in the division would crumple and quit after getting caught in that position by carwin. Brock just took it. Do you remember how pissed he sounded that his corner would even ASK how he was doing after that first round. Carwin Lesnar rematch is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I’d bet money he wont ever get back there. Junior and cain have the best chance to beat brock (not that they will) due to their superior striking skills combined with much quicker feet than anyone brock has faced. I’m saying all of this with Cain having been my favorite in the UFC since the rothwell beating. I dont think he can keep brock standing long enough unless he has put on about 30 pounds in the last few months.[/quote]
QFT.
JDS and Cain both represent the lighter, faster, more mobile heavyweights, however, Brock is big and just as mobile. His standup will only continue to improve, but if anyone thought he was going to win the Carwin fight in a striking battle, I can only say quit smokin that shit. Carwin had never been past the 1st round, so what do you do to beat him? Take him past the 1st. With Cain, I see Brock closing the distance and taking him down immediately. From there, good ol’ GnP. Cain hasn’t spent much, if any time on his back. Like all fights, it can go either way, but I’m rooting for Brock on this one. [/quote]
Brock’s standup has gotten as good as it’s gonna get.[/quote]
And you know this how?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Uhh, you do realize that until he gassed himself Carwin not only stuffed Lesnars takedowns he beat the shit out of him as well, right? I don’t think Velasquez is the guy to beat Lesnar. Think we’re gonna have to wait for the Carwin/Lesnar rematch. Lesnar’s just too big and strong for Velasquez’s gameplan. Unless he surprises everyone and knocks him out, but I just don’t see that happening.[/quote]
Yes, I watched this fight.
Carwin is also a Gorilla.[/quote]
Carwin smashed his melon sized fists into brock so hard for five minutes his body seized up on him. Brock knew he would have to weather a storm of fists, he did for five minutes and then walked straight back to the center of the ring and dominated the guy. That is what champions do. In thousands of fights I have never seen that kind of mental fortitude. Every other fighter in the division would crumple and quit after getting caught in that position by carwin. Brock just took it. Do you remember how pissed he sounded that his corner would even ASK how he was doing after that first round. Carwin Lesnar rematch is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I’d bet money he wont ever get back there. Junior and cain have the best chance to beat brock (not that they will) due to their superior striking skills combined with much quicker feet than anyone brock has faced. I’m saying all of this with Cain having been my favorite in the UFC since the rothwell beating. I dont think he can keep brock standing long enough unless he has put on about 30 pounds in the last few months.[/quote]
QFT.
JDS and Cain both represent the lighter, faster, more mobile heavyweights, however, Brock is big and just as mobile. His standup will only continue to improve, but if anyone thought he was going to win the Carwin fight in a striking battle, I can only say quit smokin that shit. Carwin had never been past the 1st round, so what do you do to beat him? Take him past the 1st. With Cain, I see Brock closing the distance and taking him down immediately. From there, good ol’ GnP. Cain hasn’t spent much, if any time on his back. Like all fights, it can go either way, but I’m rooting for Brock on this one. [/quote]
Brock’s standup has gotten as good as it’s gonna get. Just like not everyone can be a genetic freak of nature, not everyone’s technique will improve. Brock was fucking hurt in the first round, he survived by a cunt hair, and props to him, he turned it around. But trying to pretend he wasn’t legitimately in danger is ridiculous.
So tell me, why is a rematch between Lesnar and an improved Carwin dumb?[/quote]
Exactly. And, if people remember Carwin only landed one shot flush that literally stiffened Lesnar up and had him running away, then spent the rest of the 1st wailing on Lesnar’s forearms/fists. If [and when] they fight again I’ll bet anyone on this site any amount of money that Carwin ko’s Lesnar. I agree that Lesnar defended the storm probably as well as anyone could’ve, but let’s not act like Lesnar didn’t completely get away with one there.[/quote]
I just watched the fight again and I have to tell you that Lesnar was repeatedly struck in the head from many different angles. I agree he was lucky to survive, but saying he wasn’t hit enough times, or correctly is just not true. Could Carwin knock him out in a rematch? Absolutely. But keep in mind that Lesnar hadn’t fought in a year and was coming off a horrible illness. To pretend that didn’t play into what took place in the first round is unrealistic. Carwin will have less of a flurry and in better cardio for the rematch (but then again anyones cardio would be sapped after swinging full force for 5:00). This will present a challenge to Lesnar for sure. But Lesnar will come two or three fights smarter, in better shape and knowing that if he can’t play at least defense on the feet he’s in trouble. It should be interesting.
Brock is probably going to win by GNP. If Cain wins it’s going to be by submission.
Brock standup has and will continue to get better. Striking is the hardest skill to get, and the fastest lost when you are out. Brock was out over a year. He is sparring with Pat Berry, lesnar’s striking will look much better.
i think Brock is gonna take it. Carwin’s shots did a hell of a lot more damage than Cain’s will, so i doubt it will cause Lensar to cover up, and he’s gonna need a different strategy. Lesnar looks like he’s added about 20 lbs of LBM, too, but i can’t see Cain having a substantial amount of endurance over Lesnar.
but…i think this could be the fight of Cain’s carrer. for the first time, he will have to stick and move and use his boxing and kickboxing. this might be the fight where he puts it all together…
should be a good fight. Lesnar wants the finish, and Cain is gonna push the pace…
Monster Brock’s going to pick Cain up and slam him like those thick ropes he was slinging on the UFC Primetime. I like both fighters, but Brock’s a beast. I think Cain has a better chance at finishing him than Carwin did though. Cain has more gas and is a better striker than Carwin.
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
[quote]Beast27195 wrote:
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Uhh, you do realize that until he gassed himself Carwin not only stuffed Lesnars takedowns he beat the shit out of him as well, right? I don’t think Velasquez is the guy to beat Lesnar. Think we’re gonna have to wait for the Carwin/Lesnar rematch. Lesnar’s just too big and strong for Velasquez’s gameplan. Unless he surprises everyone and knocks him out, but I just don’t see that happening.[/quote]
Yes, I watched this fight.
Carwin is also a Gorilla.[/quote]
Carwin smashed his melon sized fists into brock so hard for five minutes his body seized up on him. Brock knew he would have to weather a storm of fists, he did for five minutes and then walked straight back to the center of the ring and dominated the guy. That is what champions do. In thousands of fights I have never seen that kind of mental fortitude. Every other fighter in the division would crumple and quit after getting caught in that position by carwin. Brock just took it. Do you remember how pissed he sounded that his corner would even ASK how he was doing after that first round. Carwin Lesnar rematch is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, I’d bet money he wont ever get back there. Junior and cain have the best chance to beat brock (not that they will) due to their superior striking skills combined with much quicker feet than anyone brock has faced. I’m saying all of this with Cain having been my favorite in the UFC since the rothwell beating. I dont think he can keep brock standing long enough unless he has put on about 30 pounds in the last few months.[/quote]
QFT.
JDS and Cain both represent the lighter, faster, more mobile heavyweights, however, Brock is big and just as mobile. His standup will only continue to improve, but if anyone thought he was going to win the Carwin fight in a striking battle, I can only say quit smokin that shit. Carwin had never been past the 1st round, so what do you do to beat him? Take him past the 1st. With Cain, I see Brock closing the distance and taking him down immediately. From there, good ol’ GnP. Cain hasn’t spent much, if any time on his back. Like all fights, it can go either way, but I’m rooting for Brock on this one. [/quote]
Brock’s standup has gotten as good as it’s gonna get. Just like not everyone can be a genetic freak of nature, not everyone’s technique will improve. Brock was fucking hurt in the first round, he survived by a cunt hair, and props to him, he turned it around. But trying to pretend he wasn’t legitimately in danger is ridiculous.
So tell me, why is a rematch between Lesnar and an improved Carwin dumb?[/quote]
Carwin is and always will be a striker. His ground game is well developed from collegiate wrestling. My point was that he gave every ounce of effort trying to finish brock and couldnt. i DONT think it was a technical issue or a conditioning one. I think he saw jis chance to win the fight jumped on brock and still couldnt do it. What else is he going to do next time, expend less energy by not hitting as hard/frequently so he wont seize up in the second round? The guy trains with the best in denver so as big as he is I think he was probably very well conditioned and simply couldnt finish the guy with his hands, which is all he would have in this situation. I think he came nowhere close to finishing brock,it was just such a savage beating that only someone with the physical attr. and mental fortitude of brock could withstand. I agree that in Cain and Jrs case brock is simply to explosive for them to execute their movement and striking that has been so effective for them in the weight class. Thats why I would like to see both of them (particularly cain) continue to put on weight as they have been doing.
But Brock nearly made the nfl despite only having played high school football. This is an are you fucking kidding me one in billion type athlete. I understand hes had relatively few fights and some have been tough, but the fact that he is still not getting tossed in to the pfp number one in the world is absurd.