LEO Encounters and Complaints

Off Topic
61

[quote]Silvergoat 66 wrote:
As an LEO I can faithfully state that the OP’s course of action was appropriate and , in the interest of quality assurance, needed. There are lots of under-trained rookies and complacent veteran officers that need a “refresher” on the standards of conduct and letter of the law. I’m not saying that the officer in question should have any form of administrative punishment, but his supervisor should take heed and require some sort of remedial action in the form of extra training, or, making a house call and apologizing for the poor conduct. This would at least help rehabilitate his kids image of LEOs in general.

Please don’t group the entire LE community into one genre of incompetent assholes. The actions of a few shouldn’t speak for the community as a whole.

Just remember that in order to prevent other people from experiencing the same problem, you got to do exactly the kind of thing that the OP did. That is, doing the exact opposite of what that kid did in the PA Carry Video… [/quote]

Thank you for the voice of reason and EXPERIENCE.

The Chief has already replied and informed me that the matter has been referred to the Professional Standards Officer and that all stops are video and audio taped. There will be a review of the tapes and I’m sure there will be no dispute as to my version of what occurred, b/c it was completely accurate. I’ll post the outcome when I know.

62

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
Fuck it, I’ll concede the point. I want to be a cop, yes, and I’m working hard for it. I’ve had no training in the area, so I only have a civilian perspective, and I’m 25. I’ve been pulled over, sure. I’ve been asked “why you speeding” or probably even “where you (coming from/headed)” and not thought much of it. Fine, guess it’s something to consider.

To insult me and all that, say he hopes I don’t get the job, etc, like this guy did, he’s still a tool even if he is right.

Perhaps someone can clue me in on how to “unsubscribe” from this thread now? [/quote]

I apologize for insulting you.

Your initial response made it personal and you implied that I was not acting in the best interest of my son and his mother, when in fact I simply refused to answer a question I was not obligated to answer. I did not refuse a lawful order and I did not act disorderly or rude in any fashion whatsoever.

Good luck with your career. I hope you decide to be one of the good guys.

63

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
My 1st time getting pulled over. I was doing 30 in a 25 while I was in High School. I didn’t think much of it because pretty much everyone in the country does 5-10 miles an hour over the limit.

Cop: License and registration.
Me: OK. Can you tell me what I did wrong?
Cop: Speeding.
Me: Really? I was only doing 30.
Cop: Points my Calculus book in the back seat Speed limit is 25. You take calculus, do the math.

This really is the typical way cops talk to anyone under the age of 30 in New Jersey.

You argue like Bodyguard did, and they’ll fuck with you. Even if you’re in the right. I’m seriously surprised when the supervisor said “hammer him” that he didn’t write like a half dozen tickets. They do that just to see if you’ll pay them. You end up having to waste a day in court to get the nonsense ones thrown out.

If a cop asks me “where are coming from?”, I’ll comply. Mainly because I don’t want to spend the day in court getting “obstruction of view”, “improper license plate lighting” and a bunch of other nonsense tickets thrown out. [/quote]

I was sitting there waiting for exactly that. I was really shocked when he arrived with one maintenance of lamps ticket. Absolutely stunned.

64

[quote]pushharder wrote:
BG, are you sure you have the “right” not to answer the nice policeman? If there are certain things you must say to him does your “right” not therefore become a “privilege?”

;-)[/quote]

LOL c’mon…

It IS a privilege to drive. But I do have an absolute right against self-incrimination or to be interviewed without a lawyer. At the moment of a traffic stop, you are being legally detained. Bust my balls in the other thread :slight_smile:

65

[quote]meat1wad wrote:
So what happens if you tell him where you were coming from? you get a ticket and go on your way?[/quote]

So what happens if there was a crime committed in the area that I was coming from and the vehicle vaguely matched the description of my vehicle. Do you think I’m on my way?

So what happens if you just allow them to search your car when they want? You get a ticket and go on your way?

66

I am pro police. I realize that this makes me stupid/weak/a fascist in the eyes of many on here. I also am pursuing a career in law enforcement. I am not doing this so I can go on a power trip, carry a gun or beat people up. I am doing this because without someone willing to uphold the law and preserve the peace, you have no civilization, period. Flawed as it may be, I prefer civilization to the alternative. I have had the opportunity to go on numerous patrol ride-alongs with my local PD where I have assisted regular officers in their duties. In my experience the vast majority of cops are intelligent, professional down to earth people who are just trying to help. If a problem can be solved without writing a ticket or making an arrest, most are happier to go that route. If you are actually a bad guy, they are pretty keen to lock you up. Like any group, some are better/more professional than others. To make sweeping generalizations about LEO’s regarding their professionalism and integrity seems to be one of the most socially acceptable prejudices in our society today.

Problems absolutely exist, doubtless more prevalently in some PD’s, and they need to be addressed. However I don’t think that universally adopting the attitude of fuck the PO-LICE and giving them as much static as the law will allow at every opportunity is the best solution. I’m not referring specifically to BG’s post here
(he may have a point), so much as the general attitude that the police are your enemy and most of them are assholes.

67

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I am pro police. I realize that this makes me stupid/weak/a fascist in the eyes of many on here. I also am pursuing a career in law enforcement. I am not doing this so I can go on a power trip, carry a gun or beat people up. I am doing this because without someone willing to uphold the law and preserve the peace, you have no civilization, period. Flawed as it may be, I prefer civilization to the alternative. I have had the opportunity to go on numerous patrol ride-alongs with my local PD where I have assisted regular officers in their duties. In my experience the vast majority of cops are intelligent, professional down to earth people who are just trying to help. If a problem can be solved without writing a ticket or making an arrest, most are happier to go that route. If you are actually a bad guy, they are pretty keen to lock you up. Like any group, some are better/more professional than others. To make sweeping generalizations about LEO’s regarding their professionalism and integrity seems to be one of the most socially acceptable prejudices in our society today.

Problems absolutely exist, doubtless more prevalently in some PD’s, and they need to be addressed. However I don’t think that universally adopting the attitude of fuck the PO-LICE and giving them as much static as the law will allow at every opportunity is the best solution. I’m not referring specifically to BG’s post here
(he may have a point), so much as the general attitude that the police are your enemy and most of them are assholes.

[/quote]

They are your enemies.

Who cares what they are and why they are what they are.

Leave excuses for the weak, there always have been and always will be people who enforce the most absurd and intrusive laws if they get paid.

Being a thug is not remedied by carrying a badge and a gun, and at least when there is a lack of civilization the asshole shaking you down does not have the air of moral superiority.

In short:

Fuck them.

68

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]byukid wrote:
usually I’m not a fan of yours, [/quote]

And this matters…how? What’s wrong, you not wearing your magic underwear today? Maybe if I was wearing magic underwear, my tail light never burns out, I don’t get stopped, my engine isn’t idling on the side of the road causing greenhouse emissions, and I don’t contribute to the changes in our atmosphere that will undoubtedly lead to the “end times” but then again you don’t care because you and your magic underwear will be “raptured” off the planet amiright? (run on sentence fully intended) :slight_smile:

Still not a fan?[/quote]

I was called-out privately about this reply and the person that sent me the message is right.

I don’t like that byukid took a back-handed stab at me, and I personally have no use for organized religion, but I now realize that to insult all those that practice Mormonism is just unnecessarily harsh and to anyone I offended, I apologize. When I’m wrong, I can admit I’m wrong. I was wrong.

69

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I am pro police. I realize that this makes me stupid/weak/a fascist in the eyes of many on here. I also am pursuing a career in law enforcement. I am not doing this so I can go on a power trip, carry a gun or beat people up. I am doing this because without someone willing to uphold the law and preserve the peace, you have no civilization, period. Flawed as it may be, I prefer civilization to the alternative. I have had the opportunity to go on numerous patrol ride-alongs with my local PD where I have assisted regular officers in their duties. In my experience the vast majority of cops are intelligent, professional down to earth people who are just trying to help. If a problem can be solved without writing a ticket or making an arrest, most are happier to go that route. If you are actually a bad guy, they are pretty keen to lock you up. Like any group, some are better/more professional than others. To make sweeping generalizations about LEO’s regarding their professionalism and integrity seems to be one of the most socially acceptable prejudices in our society today.

Problems absolutely exist, doubtless more prevalently in some PD’s, and they need to be addressed. However I don’t think that universally adopting the attitude of fuck the PO-LICE and giving them as much static as the law will allow at every opportunity is the best solution. I’m not referring specifically to BG’s post here
(he may have a point), so much as the general attitude that the police are your enemy and most of them are assholes.

[/quote]

This is a reasonable attitude. But I hope you are just as opposed to those that would abuse power as you are to those that would be prejudiced against LEO. In a perfect world, only the criminals need worry about LEO. However, the world, and LEO, are not perfect. And innocent people’s rights are violated and innocent people do get charged with crimes. Innocent people are also unreasonably detained.

You have to be willing to let some bad guys go so that you do not trample the rights of the innocent. This is the price we pay for the society we live in. Too many LEO do not understand this and are willing to cross the line, including perjure themselves to make an arrest. Once you’re willing to do that, no one, innocent or otherwise is safe anymore.

Would you agree?

70

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I am pro police. I realize that this makes me stupid/weak/a fascist in the eyes of many on here. I also am pursuing a career in law enforcement. I am not doing this so I can go on a power trip, carry a gun or beat people up. I am doing this because without someone willing to uphold the law and preserve the peace, you have no civilization, period. Flawed as it may be, I prefer civilization to the alternative. I have had the opportunity to go on numerous patrol ride-alongs with my local PD where I have assisted regular officers in their duties. In my experience the vast majority of cops are intelligent, professional down to earth people who are just trying to help. If a problem can be solved without writing a ticket or making an arrest, most are happier to go that route. If you are actually a bad guy, they are pretty keen to lock you up. Like any group, some are better/more professional than others. To make sweeping generalizations about LEO’s regarding their professionalism and integrity seems to be one of the most socially acceptable prejudices in our society today.

Problems absolutely exist, doubtless more prevalently in some PD’s, and they need to be addressed. However I don’t think that universally adopting the attitude of fuck the PO-LICE and giving them as much static as the law will allow at every opportunity is the best solution. I’m not referring specifically to BG’s post here
(he may have a point), so much as the general attitude that the police are your enemy and most of them are assholes.

[/quote]

They are your enemies.

Who cares what they are and why they are what they are.

Leave excuses for the weak, there always have been and always will be people who enforce the most absurd and intrusive laws if they get paid.

Being a thug is not remedied by carrying a badge and a gun, and at least when there is a lack of civilization the asshole shaking you down does not have the air of moral superiority.

In short:

Fuck them.

[/quote]
OK troll, I’ll bite. So explain how you would have the public peace upheld without these “assholes”?

71

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Silvergoat 66 wrote:
[/quote]

Thank you for the voice of reason and EXPERIENCE.

The Chief has already replied and informed me that the matter has been referred to the Professional Standards Officer and that all stops are video and audio taped. There will be a review of the tapes and I’m sure there will be no dispute as to my version of what occurred, b/c it was completely accurate. I’ll post the outcome when I know. [/quote]

Looking forward to hearing about the outcome.

72

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]meat1wad wrote:
So what happens if you tell him where you were coming from? you get a ticket and go on your way?[/quote]

In most cases, yes.

In some, you get tasered, beaten up, or jailed for life.

Anyhow, none of his business.

You may have to realize that there is a a certain logic to small risks that carry huge disadvantages.

Being honest to a police officer is a fools bet.

Nothing to gain, too much to lose.

[/quote]

I dont know maybe its just that im ignorant to this kind of shit, but never personally knew anyone who had to go through anything like your saying.

Beat up, tasered, jail for life? thats pretty extreme and would never happen in 99.9% of your basic traffic stops.

A perfect example is what happened to me a few weeks ago. I got pulled over for rolling through a stop sign coming home from a little get together on mothers day. The cop asked me “where are you coming from”. I was polite and I told where I was and that I was on my way home. I also told him that I already had 5 points on my licences and another 3 Id be losing my liscence and probably my car. The officer was nice enough to just give me a warning. Not even a fine.
I guarantee if I told him he had no right to ask me that Id be driving away with another 3 points and a nice big fine.

73

Oh man. Of all the cops I’ve had an encounter with, one, I’ll repeat, ONE, has been worth the oxygen he’s breathing. The problem is cops are like every one else on the planet. Most are stupid and will abuse any power given. It’s not just a cop problem, it’s a people problem.

I used to have to work as a rent a cop in a township high school. The township had its own school police force, but the company I worked for was hired because they weren’t doing their jobs properly. The one cop I was referring to earlier was ostracized by his department. They stuck him in an office and told him not to leave or respond to any calls. They told him he was incompetent. What he really was was a good cop. He upheld his job duties and the rights of the people.
For example, one day we got a call to “detain” a student who was simply standing in a hallway, being quiet, and refusing to go to class. So we head down with the one good cop and politely talk to the girl. We immediately recognize her as being in the special ed department. Our job was to calm her and lead her into class. No big deal. We were in the process of that when the world’s shortest cop came in thinking he was a giant badass. This guy even tucked his pants in his boots. Without knowledge of the situation he grabbed her by the backpack and slammed her on the ground, cuffed her, and told her she was under arrest for disorderly conduct. Our good cop friend had a fit. He made a complaint to the chief and subsequently got in trouble. I don’t know if this is the way in every department, but at least in this one, good cops get in trouble for being good cops.

As far as an example that directly affected me, I’ve got one. I was in a suburb where the cops have nothing better to do than harass people. I had no equipment problems, wasn’t speeding, wasn’t weaving, wasn’t committing any traffic violations. I got pulled over and it took me a few seconds to realize the cop wasn’t leaving my bumper and was actually pulling me over. The cop came to the window, asked for license only, and went back to the car. A grueling 15 minutes later he came back with a ticket for not using a turn signal. He informed me that I didn’t use a turn signal “several” times. I said I always use a turn signal (I really do.) and asked where it allegedly occurred. Where he said it happened was a good mile and a half behind me. So I asked if he was sure he had the right car, even though what I was driving was pretty distinctive. He said it was so I said I’d see him in court. This is terribly naive. The corrupt judge is working with the corrupt cops and doesn’t give a flying fuck what actually happened. I went to court and the cop showed up and made up a huge story. He said I was speeding well over the limit (but he conveniently didn’t have his radar on) and was weaving in and out dangerously through traffic and never once used a turn signal. This is entirely untrue and I just stood there in awe in the court. I lost, my fine was doubled and I was ordered to take defensive driving. I don’t know why I was targeted. I really don’t believe he had the wrong car. Maybe it was just penis envy.

Anyway, I’m sure there are plenty of good cops in the world, but for every good one there are 999 hypocritical, abusive, power-tripping, pieces of shit wearing a badge. In my city, a news story comes out at least once every other month about a corrupt pig getting caught being corrupt. Theft during traffic stops, drinking, murder, drinking, embezzlement, drinking…etc…etc. The biggest cover up going right now is a cop who was drunk and slammed into 3 motorcyclists sitting at a red light with his cruiser. A judge, about a year later, is going to decide soon if he’s going to uphold the charges against this worthless excuse for a human or not. http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-david-bisard-judge-to-decide-on-dui-charges-against-bisard-may-31-20110520,0,4842970.story

74

[quote]Silvergoat 66 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
I am pro police. I realize that this makes me stupid/weak/a fascist in the eyes of many on here. I also am pursuing a career in law enforcement. I am not doing this so I can go on a power trip, carry a gun or beat people up. I am doing this because without someone willing to uphold the law and preserve the peace, you have no civilization, period. Flawed as it may be, I prefer civilization to the alternative. I have had the opportunity to go on numerous patrol ride-alongs with my local PD where I have assisted regular officers in their duties. In my experience the vast majority of cops are intelligent, professional down to earth people who are just trying to help. If a problem can be solved without writing a ticket or making an arrest, most are happier to go that route. If you are actually a bad guy, they are pretty keen to lock you up. Like any group, some are better/more professional than others. To make sweeping generalizations about LEO’s regarding their professionalism and integrity seems to be one of the most socially acceptable prejudices in our society today.

Problems absolutely exist, doubtless more prevalently in some PD’s, and they need to be addressed. However I don’t think that universally adopting the attitude of fuck the PO-LICE and giving them as much static as the law will allow at every opportunity is the best solution. I’m not referring specifically to BG’s post here
(he may have a point), so much as the general attitude that the police are your enemy and most of them are assholes.

[/quote]

They are your enemies.

Who cares what they are and why they are what they are.

Leave excuses for the weak, there always have been and always will be people who enforce the most absurd and intrusive laws if they get paid.

Being a thug is not remedied by carrying a badge and a gun, and at least when there is a lack of civilization the asshole shaking you down does not have the air of moral superiority.

In short:

Fuck them.

[/quote]
OK troll, I’ll bite. So explain how you would have the public peace upheld without these “assholes”?

[/quote]

I feel like I am obliged now to give a semi-intelligent answer.

So, please, let us get this out of the way first, fuck you, you cunt.

Having made my position on moral blackmail over the internet as clear as possible, lets move on.

You can have one of two extremes:

You can have a multitude of laws that breed resentment for those laws and nobody really cares, or you can have few and strictly enforced laws.

What you cannot have is a multitude of laws that are strictly enforced.

It not only breeds a disdain for the laws, and rightly so, it is also dainting the people enforcing those laws.

Right now, a cop in the US can arrest you and seize your property if you have too much cash on you, RICO that started out with three laws is now used with over 1000, meaning, the burden of prood is no longer with the government, but on you, DAs can pile so much charges on you that you will never see the ligzht of day again unless you plea bargain.

That, it does not pain me in the least to say, is not the standard of civilized nations. You could not even become a member of the EU right now.

Not that you are desperately trying to get in, but the very idea that you are found lacking, and for good reason, should be some cause for concern.

In case you are one of those:

USA! USA!

Happy?

75

[quote]meat1wad wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]meat1wad wrote:
So what happens if you tell him where you were coming from? you get a ticket and go on your way?[/quote]

In most cases, yes.

In some, you get tasered, beaten up, or jailed for life.

Anyhow, none of his business.

You may have to realize that there is a a certain logic to small risks that carry huge disadvantages.

Being honest to a police officer is a fools bet.

Nothing to gain, too much to lose.

[/quote]

I dont know maybe its just that im ignorant to this kind of shit, but never personally knew anyone who had to go through anything like your saying.

Beat up, tasered, jail for life? thats pretty extreme and would never happen in 99.9% of your basic traffic stops.

A perfect example is what happened to me a few weeks ago. I got pulled over for rolling through a stop sign coming home from a little get together on mothers day. The cop asked me “where are you coming from”. I was polite and I told where I was and that I was on my way home. I also told him that I already had 5 points on my licences and another 3 Id be losing my liscence and probably my car. The officer was nice enough to just give me a warning. Not even a fine.
I guarantee if I told him he had no right to ask me that Id be driving away with another 3 points and a nice big fine.[/quote]

So the very least you would have expected if you had refused to answer is a fine?

Again, I am not saying that talking to a cop is going to lead to trouble, but when it does, you are fucked.

Why, oh why, take the risk?

76

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[/quote]
Let me suggest an alternate scenario. Perhaps after the officer asks you where you are coming from you respond with something like:

You: Wifey, child, and I were just driving home from such and such friends place after having a rousing family/friends fun night! As you can see by my address we are very close to home now.

Officer: I see that, well did you know that your rear tail light is currently out?

You: Why yes officer I did, I am replacing it on the morrow.

Officer: That’s very good, however, I will need to check back with you to be sure it is replaced. Have a good night sir.

You: Thank you, officer.

Now, please understand, I am trying to be humorous. In no way am I attacking you; I tend to agree with your actions. However, I am sure this type of scenario is more normal than fighting it and ending up in court to fight something that to me seems rather frivolous.

Yes, in some cases he will still give a ticket, but being honest and answering questions is not as bad as some others in this thread have implied. In all of my interactions with police, usually over speeding, I have been given a fair amount of warnings and fined when I continued to not heed the speed limit. Perhaps I’ve been lucky though and only caught the attention of the good police officers.

77

[quote]meat1wad wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]meat1wad wrote:
So what happens if you tell him where you were coming from? you get a ticket and go on your way?[/quote]

In most cases, yes.

In some, you get tasered, beaten up, or jailed for life.

Anyhow, none of his business.

You may have to realize that there is a a certain logic to small risks that carry huge disadvantages.

Being honest to a police officer is a fools bet.

Nothing to gain, too much to lose.

[/quote]

I dont know maybe its just that im ignorant to this kind of shit, but never personally knew anyone who had to go through anything like your saying.

Beat up, tasered, jail for life? thats pretty extreme and would never happen in 99.9% of your basic traffic stops.

A perfect example is what happened to me a few weeks ago. I got pulled over for rolling through a stop sign coming home from a little get together on mothers day. The cop asked me “where are you coming from”. I was polite and I told where I was and that I was on my way home. I also told him that I already had 5 points on my licences and another 3 Id be losing my liscence and probably my car. The officer was nice enough to just give me a warning. Not even a fine.
I guarantee if I told him he had no right to ask me that Id be driving away with another 3 points and a nice big fine.[/quote]

And I guarantee you if there was a crime where you were coming from and your vehicle vaguely matched the description, you just made a potential admission against your interest. You do know that people get charged with crimes they are absolutely innocent of based on mistaken witness identifications right? You are aware that people have done hard time only to exonerated by DNA years later right?

You’re absolutely right though; 99 times out of a 100, this question is routine. And yes, if you’re compliant, you MIGHT get a break. What I did was not expedient or convenient, but I did what I felt was necessary based on how I was being treated. When your first question is “where are you coming from”, you’re setting a tone that is offensive and objectionable.

As for me, I don’t ask for or expect favors even though I’ve gotten more than my fair share of breaks from LEO. I’ll take my punishment when I’m wrong. Write my ticket, or don’t. I’m going to be polite and obey orders either way.

Do you also answer them truthfully when they ask “do you know how fast you were going?”. Do so, and you might as well just convict yourself. I understand your point though, and I hope you understand mine.

78

[quote]ssz28envy wrote:
Oh man. Of all the cops I’ve had an encounter with, one, I’ll repeat, ONE, has been worth the oxygen he’s breathing. The problem is cops are like every one else on the planet. Most are stupid and will abuse any power given. It’s not just a cop problem, it’s a people problem.

I used to have to work as a rent a cop in a township high school. The township had its own school police force, but the company I worked for was hired because they weren’t doing their jobs properly. The one cop I was referring to earlier was ostracized by his department. They stuck him in an office and told him not to leave or respond to any calls. They told him he was incompetent. What he really was was a good cop. He upheld his job duties and the rights of the people.
For example, one day we got a call to “detain” a student who was simply standing in a hallway, being quiet, and refusing to go to class. So we head down with the one good cop and politely talk to the girl. We immediately recognize her as being in the special ed department. Our job was to calm her and lead her into class. No big deal. We were in the process of that when the world’s shortest cop came in thinking he was a giant badass. This guy even tucked his pants in his boots. Without knowledge of the situation he grabbed her by the backpack and slammed her on the ground, cuffed her, and told her she was under arrest for disorderly conduct. Our good cop friend had a fit. He made a complaint to the chief and subsequently got in trouble. I don’t know if this is the way in every department, but at least in this one, good cops get in trouble for being good cops.

As far as an example that directly affected me, I’ve got one. I was in a suburb where the cops have nothing better to do than harass people. I had no equipment problems, wasn’t speeding, wasn’t weaving, wasn’t committing any traffic violations. I got pulled over and it took me a few seconds to realize the cop wasn’t leaving my bumper and was actually pulling me over. The cop came to the window, asked for license only, and went back to the car. A grueling 15 minutes later he came back with a ticket for not using a turn signal. He informed me that I didn’t use a turn signal “several” times. I said I always use a turn signal (I really do.) and asked where it allegedly occurred. Where he said it happened was a good mile and a half behind me. So I asked if he was sure he had the right car, even though what I was driving was pretty distinctive. He said it was so I said I’d see him in court. This is terribly naive. The corrupt judge is working with the corrupt cops and doesn’t give a flying fuck what actually happened. I went to court and the cop showed up and made up a huge story. He said I was speeding well over the limit (but he conveniently didn’t have his radar on) and was weaving in and out dangerously through traffic and never once used a turn signal. This is entirely untrue and I just stood there in awe in the court. I lost, my fine was doubled and I was ordered to take defensive driving. I don’t know why I was targeted. I really don’t believe he had the wrong car. Maybe it was just penis envy.

Anyway, I’m sure there are plenty of good cops in the world, but for every good one there are 999 hypocritical, abusive, power-tripping, pieces of shit wearing a badge. In my city, a news story comes out at least once every other month about a corrupt pig getting caught being corrupt. Theft during traffic stops, drinking, murder, drinking, embezzlement, drinking…etc…etc. The biggest cover up going right now is a cop who was drunk and slammed into 3 motorcyclists sitting at a red light with his cruiser. A judge, about a year later, is going to decide soon if he’s going to uphold the charges against this worthless excuse for a human or not. http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-david-bisard-judge-to-decide-on-dui-charges-against-bisard-may-31-20110520,0,4842970.story[/quote]

It’s an extraordinary amount of power for the average person to handle. LEO should be better compensated and the standards for becoming (and remaining) LEO should be much more stringent. As it is, the standards are low, and the PBA does a great job of defending and keeping bad cops in their jobs.

The good ones are special indeed and the rest are like you say - just like the rest of us, terribly flawed. I don’t necessarily agree with your numbers, but sometimes it sure can seem that way.

79

I was a cop for about 5 years (in pharmacy school now) so I’ll chime in…
There are lots of asshole cops – there are a lot more good cops that show up when and where their needed and and do a job most people can’t… run toward the gunfire instead of away, etc… so all you folks that group them together as a bunch of morons are just wrong… Also, it’s easy to forget that cops work with the knowledge that the next person they stop could be the one that tries to kill them… The cop that keeps this in mind is the one that goes home at the end of the day. And just because a cop comes off as an asshole doesn’t mean that it’s personal… sometimes it’s just a way of stayin sharp and watchin your own ass…

The cop in the OP case was perfectly correct to ask the question… Maybe he was green, maybe not but you can get a lot more from people if you talk to them like human beings rather than like a robot or something…
It’s a cop’s duty to be thorough; you don’t want to be the officer that lets a guy go w/o so much as some general questions only to find out that he killed his wife earlier that night and was lying about where/when he was going/doing and you could’ve caught him had you only asked another question or two so that he got tripped up and started having to lie… So, in general it’s worth the risk of coming off like an asshole every now and then if it ends up savin someone’s life…

On the other hand… the OP was perfectly in the right to refuse to answer the question… I’ve had all kinds of people refuse to answer questions before and they usually end one of three ways
1- I back up and apologize for coming off like an asshole and the person answers the question and we leave on good terms… usually just a person that gets offended (like the OP I guess) and then it gets worked out
2- I write/dont write a ticket and go on my way thinkin that they were hiding something that prolly deserves another look…
3- I feel like there’s another reason they’re not answering; investigate further and usually discover they are involved in some sort of illegal activity that they were attempting to hide… they go to jail

One more thing that is totally missed without watching the video… HOW people say things has a lot to do with it… 99% of people will let you search their cars and will answer any reasonable questions (like the one mentioned in the OP)… There are a few ppl who refuse and this is why cops get a little on edge when people just refuse to answer “routine” questions… because MOST of the ones that refuse have a reason other than just exercising their rights… I’ve arrested people for not wearing a seatbelt after they refused to answer questions… because of how they talked and acted and sure enough he had an 8-ball of meth on him…

80

[quote]Drater wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[/quote]
Let me suggest an alternate scenario. Perhaps after the officer asks you where you are coming from you respond with something like:

You: Wifey, child, and I were just driving home from such and such friends place after having a rousing family/friends fun night! As you can see by my address we are very close to home now.

Officer: I see that, well did you know that your rear tail light is currently out?

You: Why yes officer I did, I am replacing it on the morrow.

Officer: That’s very good, however, I will need to check back with you to be sure it is replaced. Have a good night sir.

You: Thank you, officer.

Now, please understand, I am trying to be humorous. In no way am I attacking you; I tend to agree with your actions. However, I am sure this type of scenario is more normal than fighting it and ending up in court to fight something that to me seems rather frivolous.

Yes, in some cases he will still give a ticket, but being honest and answering questions is not as bad as some others in this thread have implied. In all of my interactions with police, usually over speeding, I have been given a fair amount of warnings and fined when I continued to not heed the speed limit. Perhaps I’ve been lucky though and only caught the attention of the good police officers.[/quote]

I don’t disagree with this. It was the way he set the tone. I stated in my email that had he been more professional, engaged me in some professional banter, instead of beginning with the gestapo checkpoint act, I’d likely disclose my origin. However, I still believe doing so is fraught with potential danger and is not required and should not be offered.

Moreover, and this is the REAL point; when rightfully refused, the officer should expeditiously and WITHOUT OFFENSE OR BIAS, move on and complete the traffic stop. Think about that. Really think about it. I wasn’t being rude. I wasn’t being a dick. I told him as politely as possible I did not feel my whereabouts was relevant to the reason he was stopping me.

How many times, and over how long, do we surrender basic rights and where does it lead? I’m seriously considering printing a professional card to hand over when I am asked for my license etc. It would read…

I am willing to cooperate with you under the law as required and obey lawful orders from you. I am providing the required documents. But as a matter of principle, as is my right under the law, I will not answer any questions you may have and I will not consent to a search of my vehicle.

This way, there is no room for disagreement and misunderstanding.

And frankly, I rather get the fucking ticket than surrender my basic rights and curry for favor. I got a $54 ticket. I’m cool with that. I think I was getting it anyway, based on this locale and their reputation. I know how to get along, but I don’t dance.