I don’t know how much longer I’m going to waste my time on a this thread. Pot is not going to be legalized anytime soon. I don’t usually post much on purely philosophical topics. I’d rather spend my posting time talking about something that will have an immediate result like the Presidential race.
I get it tokers want it to be legal because they are just a tad scared of getting arrested.
I’d say in this case that fear is a good thing.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Thinking it’s harmless is the very problem Pitt.
[/quote]
A change in the legal status will not alter the level of harm. In fact; in may lower it.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I see drug use as weakness…[/quote]
Bingo…you win the prize. However; it’s quite a leap from from weakness to crime.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
The irony of your argument does not escape me. You are claiming on the one hand that we should legalize pot because many people do it anyway. Yet, on the other hand you are advocating that yet another law will fix one danger aspect of legalizing pot…which is on the books already.
But, if your fellow weed lovers already ignore the first law what’s to stop them from ignoring another law, not unlike those who consume alcohol?[/quote]
I suspect you don’t apply this ame standard to handgun ownership…?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice…[/quote]
I realize our outcome may be different, but that simply has not happened in countries that have that have tried decriminalizing/leagalizing weed.
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
BUT we have way to many people that are not that responsible and forget to pick up their Doritos and Ho-Ho’s before toking it up.[/quote]
The data I have seen indicates you are full of shit. Please post a link to something that supports you position about stoners and auto accidents. No personal stories…‘if your a hammer everything looks like a nail.’
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]smh23 wrote:
And I guess my biggest thing is this–if adults want to smoke, they should be able to. They shouldn’t be able to drive while intoxicated, because that is extremely dangerous.[/quote]
If the studies that were made are to believed it is actually not.
[/quote]
I drove high once, and I was a danger to myself, the people in my car, and other people on the road. Not so much as driving hammered, but substantially.
Some people, I agree, don’t get like that. Not even close. Some people probably wouldn’t register a measurable difference in reaction time. But I do think that mind-altering substances and driving should never mix.
Legalize it. Tax it out the ass. There, problem solved.
CS
I haven’t read through the whole thread.
Some of the other posters have already stated what I want to say, but I will go ahead just to confirm.
Marijuana was many times easier to get in high school than alcohol. As Pit, I started smoking before drinking largely for this reason. My friends and I couldn’t phone up a guy and get him to deliver some rum, we sure could though have a guy over with dope in less than 30 minutes. For this reason I doubt that legalization will increase usage amongst young people. Everyone who wanted to smoke already was.
I don’t experience much, if any, loss of coordination while high. I have objectively been able to judge this because one of the main things my friends and I would do when we got high is play sports. I could see that I could still hit a baseball 350+ feet, throw accurately and on a line at 100 feet, or ski a certain slope in a certain fashion at a certain speed, etc. You can also find studies that support this. They have tested people high while driving and shown that the effects are minimal and often compensated for with greater care and caution ( people tend to drive slower and follow further while stoned ).
Usage rates in B.C are the highest in the world. Higher than in countries where it is legal. ( this should make you think and relates to the next point.)
There are many documented cases of legalization LOWERING usage. Prohibition is one of those cases. Did Alcohol Use Decrease During Alcohol Prohibition?
The list goes on… but the whole thing is so silly it’s painful to bother.
I DO regret smoking in high school like I did because I believe it made me apathetic. It wasn’t until 2 years after graduation that I slowed down and went to University. Now I’m at the top of my class and smoke a little less than once a month ( in high school it was daily ). I believe that had I been PROPERLY educated, and had marijuana been harder to get, I might not have smoked as much as I did. I believe that legalization would largely accomplish this.
The big problem is the exaggerated claims. When a kid hears all these HORRIBLE things about something, tries it, and realizes that it’s (virtually) harmless, he throws out ALL of the original claims, including any that may have been true. I think it would be a lot more effective to say to kids something like -
" This drug isn’t going to kill you, it’s literally impossible to O.D, it’s non-addictive, and it’s very unlikely that it will do any sort of physical damage to your body no matter how much you use it. What it will possible do though is change your priorities and make you too content with what you have. It might lessen your drive and affect your grades which will ultimately have a big impact on your life "
^^ Something like that ^^ would have helped a 17y/o me but unfortunately that’s not what is said to kids at all…
I haven’t seen absolutely for a fact evidence of it, but some studies suggest that smoking through the teen years will lower iq. The studies suggested that it didn’t happen to people who started as adults.
And when I used to smoke in college, I found it useful for brainstorming ideas. After a couple coffees too. Then I’d sort through the ideas I came up with while stone sober. One thing I found really interesting are studies that suggest lsd is useful for group brainstorming for things like focus groups. Low doses, not tripping dosages.
I do know that pot was messing with my lungs and sinuses. I’d imagine some of the effects would be permanent depending on the person, duration, and frequency but there’s only untested theory behind that.
Because of the effects on the brain, I really think it’s crucial to keep pot away from minors. Have a 21 rule for it if legalized.
I’d be really happy with decriminalization. That would be a great start.
[quote]tmay11 wrote:
I haven’t read through the whole thread.
Some of the other posters have already stated what I want to say, but I will go ahead just to confirm.
Marijuana was many times easier to get in high school than alcohol. As Pit, I started smoking before drinking largely for this reason. My friends and I couldn’t phone up a guy and get him to deliver some rum, we sure could though have a guy over with dope in less than 30 minutes. For this reason I doubt that legalization will increase usage amongst young people. Everyone who wanted to smoke already was.
I don’t experience much, if any, loss of coordination while high. I have objectively been able to judge this because one of the main things my friends and I would do when we got high is play sports. I could see that I could still hit a baseball 350+ feet, throw accurately and on a line at 100 feet, or ski a certain slope in a certain fashion at a certain speed, etc. You can also find studies that support this. They have tested people high while driving and shown that the effects are minimal and often compensated for with greater care and caution ( people tend to drive slower and follow further while stoned ).
Usage rates in B.C are the highest in the world. Higher than in countries where it is legal. ( this should make you think and relates to the next point.)
There are many documented cases of legalization LOWERING usage. Prohibition is one of those cases. Did Alcohol Use Decrease During Alcohol Prohibition?
The list goes on… but the whole thing is so silly it’s painful to bother.
I DO regret smoking in high school like I did because I believe it made me apathetic. It wasn’t until 2 years after graduation that I slowed down and went to University. Now I’m at the top of my class and smoke a little less than once a month ( in high school it was daily ). I believe that had I been PROPERLY educated, and had marijuana been harder to get, I might not have smoked as much as I did. I believe that legalization would largely accomplish this.
The big problem is the exaggerated claims. When a kid hears all these HORRIBLE things about something, tries it, and realizes that it’s (virtually) harmless, he throws out ALL of the original claims, including any that may have been true. I think it would be a lot more effective to say to kids something like -
" This drug isn’t going to kill you, it’s literally impossible to O.D, it’s non-addictive, and it’s very unlikely that it will do any sort of physical damage to your body no matter how much you use it. What it will possible do though is change your priorities and make you too content with what you have. It might lessen your drive and affect your grades which will ultimately have a big impact on your life "
^^ Something like that ^^ would have helped a 17y/o me but unfortunately that’s not what is said to kids at all…
[/quote]
Well said , it had to effect my priorities as well . but maybe there is a plus there some how
[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
I haven’t seen absolutely for a fact evidence of it, but some studies suggest that smoking through the teen years will lower iq. The studies suggested that it didn’t happen to people who started as adults.
And when I used to smoke in college, I found it useful for brainstorming ideas. After a couple coffees too. Then I’d sort through the ideas I came up with while stone sober. One thing I found really interesting are studies that suggest lsd is useful for group brainstorming for things like focus groups. Low doses, not tripping dosages.
I do know that pot was messing with my lungs and sinuses. I’d imagine some of the effects would be permanent depending on the person, duration, and frequency but there’s only untested theory behind that.
Because of the effects on the brain, I really think it’s crucial to keep pot away from minors. Have a 21 rule for it if legalized.
I’d be really happy with decriminalization. That would be a great start.[/quote]
I did not find the studies , just articles about the study. There are so many studies today . The Democrats do a study that says one thing and the Republicans do a study that says just the opposite
Los Angeles Police Dept attempt to crack down on illegal beer selling on skid row.
Yes, it was legalized, it was taxes, it was regulated, and now it’s sold to the homeless devoid of all the 3 criteria I just mentioned…
"But recently, the dynamic shifted. A federal court order last year blunted the Los Angeles Police Department’s authority to seize objects from the sidewalks, a ruling that was upheld this week on appeal. At the same time, the number of people sleeping on skid row’s streets has increased, by 70% since 2010 to about 1,200 total. Crime is up as well.
“Here’s the thing about the cops ? they try to control it, but they can’t be two places at once,” Richard said. "They can’t catch us all.
Richard says he doesn’t deal drugs any more and doesn’t tolerate drug users on his corner. He thinks the LAPD will leave him alone if he keeps the operation “respectful.”
But Joseph sees beer sales as a link to other types of crime.
Narcotics and alcohol are a driving force of a lot of our crime ? you can’t separate the two," Joseph said. “In this 50-block radius ? it all goes together. And if you don’t deal with it all, you’re just spinning your wheels.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-skid-row-beer-20120907,0,2061622,full.story
Watcha think Pitt ?
[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Legalize it. Tax it out the ass. There, problem solved.
CS[/quote]
We (California) tried that, and we are $17 Billion budget deficit, with a $648 Billion total debt.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Legalize it. Tax it out the ass. There, problem solved.
CS[/quote]
We (California) tried that, and we are $17 Billion budget deficit, with a $648 Billion total debt.[/quote]
Yeah, but you are spending like a drunken pimp with one week to live.
That is neither here nor there.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Los Angeles Police Dept attempt to crack down on illegal beer selling on skid row.
Yes, it was legalized, it was taxes, it was regulated, and now it’s sold to the homeless devoid of all the 3 criteria I just mentioned…
"But recently, the dynamic shifted. A federal court order last year blunted the Los Angeles Police Department’s authority to seize objects from the sidewalks, a ruling that was upheld this week on appeal. At the same time, the number of people sleeping on skid row’s streets has increased, by 70% since 2010 to about 1,200 total. Crime is up as well.
“Here’s the thing about the cops ? they try to control it, but they can’t be two places at once,” Richard said. "They can’t catch us all.
Richard says he doesn’t deal drugs any more and doesn’t tolerate drug users on his corner. He thinks the LAPD will leave him alone if he keeps the operation “respectful.”
But Joseph sees beer sales as a link to other types of crime.
Narcotics and alcohol are a driving force of a lot of our crime ? you can’t separate the two," Joseph said. “In this 50-block radius ? it all goes together. And if you don’t deal with it all, you’re just spinning your wheels.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-skid-row-beer-20120907,0,2061622,full.story
Watcha think Pitt ? [/quote]
what am I supposed to think , sounds like skid row. I remember hearing about skid row when I was a kid. Drugs were probably legal when that place started. Good weather , now they are illegal ?
[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
Legalize it. Tax it out the ass. There, problem solved.
CS[/quote]
IMO the profit is the negative . You take a ditch weed and make it worth more than gold and wonder why criminals want to control it. I would say tax it like alcohol.
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
BUT we have way to many people that are not that responsible and forget to pick up their Doritos and Ho-Ho’s before toking it up.[/quote]
The data I have seen indicates you are full of shit. Please post a link to something that supports you position about stoners and auto accidents. No personal stories…‘if your a hammer everything looks like a nail.’[/quote]
From Scientific American 2/9/12
US News story about a Canadian Study
From a 2008 article in a British Columbia newspaper that driving while stoned is on the rise.
http://rosemarykeevil.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/keevil-gm-driving-stoned1.pdf
Now that I’ve backed up my statement, it’s time to log off and go do the best damn job in the world!!
This thread has not only confused my support, but also reduced my faith in humanity. Elements of an argument. Crazy topic.
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
BUT we have way to many people that are not that responsible and forget to pick up their Doritos and Ho-Ho’s before toking it up.[/quote]
The data I have seen indicates you are full of shit. Please post a link to something that supports you position about stoners and auto accidents. No personal stories…‘if your a hammer everything looks like a nail.’[/quote]
From Scientific American 2/9/12
US News story about a Canadian Study
From a 2008 article in a British Columbia newspaper that driving while stoned is on the rise.
http://rosemarykeevil.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/keevil-gm-driving-stoned1.pdf
Now that I’ve backed up my statement, it’s time to log off and go do the best damn job in the world!![/quote]
Pittski owned yet again.