Legalizing Weed

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’m not one of those guys who thinks heroin should be on sale down at the local pharmacy, but marijuana’s illegality is difficult to justify, especially in light of the legality of alcohol. Though I’m slightly uneasy with the idea of a paternalistic government in any situation, I understand the need to deem some things too dangerous for human consumption. MJ isn’t one of them. It’s a plant, it grows in the ground, it makes you laugh a little louder, it makes buffet food taste a little better, it makes shitty horror movies funny.

What it doesn’t do is it doesn’t make you beat you wife or sucker punch a guy in the face for hitting on your girl at a bar. Mel Gibson probably couldn’t have blamed his aggressive antisemitic tirade on it, and it probably wouldn’t have killed John Bonham, even after way too much.

The idea that one grown man can tell another grown man that the latter can’t pick a harmless plant from the ground, smoke it in his own house, and then eat a bunch of pretzels and fall asleep…is absolutely ludicrous.

It is dangerous to drive while high, and it should always be very, very illegal. Someone mentioned above that there is no breathalyzer analogue, and that is a problem. But other than that, MJ’s illegality and alcohol’s legality seem to be both arbitrary, and we must always do our best to eliminate the arbitrary from the law.

As a side note, I fucking hate smoking weed. It makes me paranoid and uncomfortable and extremely confused, and every time I got high in college I was just waiting to come down. Although sex on weed is pretty damn fun.[/quote]

I do agree with the incongruence with the legality of alcohol and the illegality of weed. yet, legalizing pot will not help the greater good as I’ve accurately pointed out something that is more plentiful and legal will be consumed more often.

By the way I wonder how many other people become paranoid and uncomfortable on pot?

[/quote]

I do agree with you that legalizing marijuana will not help the greater good. But this isn’t 1984, and not all things are weighed in light of their effect on the welfare of the Party.

Freedom comes with dangers, and you’re right that this particular freedom would come with dangers of its own, though I suspect that you overestimate them somewhat.

But unless the dangers accompanying it are great–as is the case with the legalization or crack-cocaine or drunk driving or pedophilia–freedom should always win the day over its opposite. [/quote]

Freedom to consume a mind altering drug is no freedom at all, but it is a burden on society. More people in the emergency room, more people with physical and emotional problems. More people dying in traffic related accidents. More access = more consumption. Simple.

Every free society must have laws to protect the populace. This is one of those laws. Some, like you, will not like it. Others, like me, think it’s a good idea.

The debate will rage on for many years–while pot remains illegal.

42

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright?[/quote]

You are right about that. But that is not the demographic that I’m concerned with. More teens will use weed if it is decriminalized. And if you disagree then please explain how LESS teens would be tempted to use something that is now decriminalized, easier to get and more socially respectable?

Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice, “do I drive high?” ANd many of them will be teens.

Just remember one point when thinking about this problem. Something that is made more legitimate and easier to get does not attract LESS users.

One only need look at the percentage of the population that were alcoholics prior to alcohol gaining legalization, and thus acceptance, and compare it to the number today.

[/quote]

Actually, I strongly disagree on your first point. Right now, ANYONE from age eight to 80 can get weed from the neighborhood pot dealer. If they legalize weed, that guy goes out of business! Or he goes legit, which means rules and standards to follow - I don’t hear about any teens going to get legal weed on the Left coast… If anything LESS kids will smoke because at least SOME sort of control/barrier will be in place.

As for your second point, there is certain percentage of our society that needs a “fix”. Be that alcohol or drugs. Pot smokers will undoubtedly continue to get their chosen fix, but that doesn’t mean that people who regularly choose to drink will suddenly switch to pot. As for “many new drug users”, that idea is kinda silly. There will be the SAME amount of people “getting a fix”. And who goes out to DRIVE when their high? That is a far more common drinking occurrence, than a weed occurrence - most people get stoned at home and chill out and listen to music or watch funny movies or fuck…

43

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright?[/quote]

You are right about that. But that is not the demographic that I’m concerned with. More teens will use weed if it is decriminalized. And if you disagree then please explain how LESS teens would be tempted to use something that is now decriminalized, easier to get and more socially respectable?

Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice, “do I drive high?” ANd many of them will be teens.

Just remember one point when thinking about this problem. Something that is made more legitimate and easier to get does not attract LESS users.

One only need look at the percentage of the population that were alcoholics prior to alcohol gaining legalization, and thus acceptance, and compare it to the number today.

[/quote]

Actually, I strongly disagree on your first point. Right now, ANYONE from age eight to 80 can get weed from the neighborhood pot dealer. If they legalize weed, that guy goes out of business! Or he goes legit, which means rules and standards to follow - I don’t hear about any teens going to get legal weed on the Left coast… If anything LESS kids will smoke because at least SOME sort of control/barrier will be in place.

As for your second point, there is certain percentage of our society that needs a “fix”. Be that alcohol or drugs. Pot smokers will undoubtedly continue to get their chosen fix, but that doesn’t mean that people who regularly choose to drink will suddenly switch to pot. As for “many new drug users”, that idea is kinda silly. There will be the SAME amount of people “getting a fix”. And who goes out to DRIVE when their high? That is a far more common drinking occurrence, than a weed occurrence - most people get stoned at home and chill out and listen to music or watch funny movies or fuck…[/quote]

Although Medical marijuana cards are easy to get, many people I know still choose to buy on the street and will continue to do so. It is way cheaper, especially if you have a hook-up. Unless a dispensary carries a specific strain to them it is not worth the extra cash.

44

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have [/quote]

The problem comparing pot to liquor is, you have liquor stores EVERYWHERE, you don’t have pot stores on every corner.

And what happened when liquor stores went up on every corner ? People bought liquor, including minors, the poor, and the mentally unstable. I can recall in high school, that it was no trouble at all to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle of mad dog 20-20 or some Thunderbird., for like a $1.49.

When you make it more accessible, people use that access, whether they are legally allowed to or not. You now have irresponsible people engaging in a mood altering substance, something I don’t want to deal with.

[/quote]

What happened when alcohol was illegal and liquor stores were NOT on every corner, but speak-easys and other ILLEGAL ways of consuming alcohol were common? You and I BOTH know the answer to that: CRIME. INCARCERATION. People SHOOTING people. Organized crime. (kinda like what’s going on in Mexico and other border states right now).

Personally, I’d rather deal with the possibility of a few more idiots (although not a significant increase than current pot consumers - and I’d personally rather deal with someone high than someone drunk) than PAY precious tax dollars incarcerating people for what is essentially the same as drinking. It’s non-violent. It’s healthier than alcohol and cigarettes. It costs us WAY more money to fight it an punish it, than it does to simply accept it and deal with it.

45

[quote]Karado wrote:
I would never condone that as well, of course not.
The Fast Food and Big Pharma Cartels are scott free in poisoning Millions.
It’s an open Conspiracy that whenever a new Drug is introduced to the
market, you see a commercial years later from a Law Firm saying…"If you or a loved one used (insert drug name here), and suffered from (insert horrendous side effects here)…you know the rest.
Big Pharma has some of the deepest pockets in the World to compensate…Nooo problems for those
peeps, and they get away with it every time.
What a Society ‘Accepted’ sham.
[/quote]

x2… and all that happens is a fine that fails in comparison to revenue generated.

hell, the latest one I’ve seen is bisphosphenates (oseoporosis drugs), Dr. Mercola has been warning about this for years.

46

I used to be rather anti-pot mainly b/c of the smoking aspect of it , have been anti-cigs since 3rd grade. Then it hit me that who am I to judge what others do when I can legally get drunk off my ass whenever I want.

Does prohibition work? It does for me, as in if it were legal I probably would try it from time to time (in baked goods), where as now I could lose my job if tested.

47

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I simply don’t see how you people accept that alcohol and cigarettes are legal and perfectly fine, but view pot as HOOOOOOORIBLE… Boggles my little brain. But then again you people feel that female genital mutilation is bad, but are fine with circumcision - you all appear to be able to hold logically juxtaposed positions quite well. Must be something about believing in a religion that is scientifically impossible, filled with inconsistency and hypocrisy, and appears to have been designed to squeeze the last shred of fun and enjoyment out of even the dullest of lives, but I digress…

.[/quote]

clap… clap… clap

48

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have [/quote]

The problem comparing pot to liquor is, you have liquor stores EVERYWHERE, you don’t have pot stores on every corner.

And what happened when liquor stores went up on every corner ? People bought liquor, including minors, the poor, and the mentally unstable. I can recall in high school, that it was no trouble at all to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle of mad dog 20-20 or some Thunderbird., for like a $1.49.

When you make it more accessible, people use that access, whether they are legally allowed to or not. You now have irresponsible people engaging in a mood altering substance, something I don’t want to deal with.

[/quote]

What happened when alcohol was illegal and liquor stores were NOT on every corner, but speak-easys and other ILLEGAL ways of consuming alcohol were common? You and I BOTH know the answer to that: CRIME. INCARCERATION. People SHOOTING people. Organized crime. (kinda like what’s going on in Mexico and other border states right now).

Personally, I’d rather deal with the possibility of a few more idiots (although not a significant increase than current pot consumers - and I’d personally rather deal with someone high than someone drunk) than PAY precious tax dollars incarcerating people for what is essentially the same as drinking. It’s non-violent. It’s healthier than alcohol and cigarettes. It costs us WAY more money to fight it an punish it, than it does to simply accept it and deal with it.[/quote]

One of the problems with your argument is the same problem that everyone on your side has. The constant comparison to alcohol does not make pot a good drug. You say you’d rather deal with someone who is high than someone who is drunk. Others say that pot is not as bad for you as alcohol and the comparisons continue. But does it really matter which is worse? Why split those hairs as a defense for legalization? That one is legal and the other is not makes it compelling to compare the two I suppose. Yet, it matters not if both are bad.

Where is the compelling argument that pot is good for society, and good for your body and brain? (Don’t post the pot for cancer patients video I’ve seen it and it is lacking).

When you compare pot to alcohol you are comparing one drug that has savaged our society with another drug that also has long term negative consequences.

I’ll stand on the same point that I entered the debate with. If pot is legalized it will be easier to get and if something is legal and easy to get more of it will be consumed. And that does not help the consumers or the general public in the long-term. I won’t be comforted that “there are laws on the books” as I drive down the street knowing that there is now even a greater risk that some mutant who has no insurance but enough money to buy weed is heading my way.

And yes I know there are worse things. But that does not make pot better, it only means that it is bad but there are other drugs that are even worse. And we all know that alcohol is also bad in many ways. But neither of these arguments is a stand alone argument for legalizing pot.

Hey, if someone likes pot that much take your chances. But for the above reasons there is no time in the foreseeable future where pot will be legalized on any mass scale.

It’s really that simple.

49

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:

Does prohibition work? It does for me, as in if it were legal I probably would try it from time to time (in baked goods), where as now I could lose my job if tested.[/quote]

This speaks to the very heart of my point.

Something made more accessible and legal will be consumed by more people which in the end means more pain for society. And since we are all part of society we will share that pain financially and in many other ways.

50

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have [/quote]

The problem comparing pot to liquor is, you have liquor stores EVERYWHERE, you don’t have pot stores on every corner.

And what happened when liquor stores went up on every corner ? People bought liquor, including minors, the poor, and the mentally unstable. I can recall in high school, that it was no trouble at all to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle of mad dog 20-20 or some Thunderbird., for like a $1.49.

When you make it more accessible, people use that access, whether they are legally allowed to or not. You now have irresponsible people engaging in a mood altering substance, something I don’t want to deal with.

[/quote]

What happened when alcohol was illegal and liquor stores were NOT on every corner, but speak-easys and other ILLEGAL ways of consuming alcohol were common? You and I BOTH know the answer to that: CRIME. INCARCERATION. People SHOOTING people. Organized crime. (kinda like what’s going on in Mexico and other border states right now).

Personally, I’d rather deal with the possibility of a few more idiots (although not a significant increase than current pot consumers - and I’d personally rather deal with someone high than someone drunk) than PAY precious tax dollars incarcerating people for what is essentially the same as drinking. It’s non-violent. It’s healthier than alcohol and cigarettes. It costs us WAY more money to fight it an punish it, than it does to simply accept it and deal with it.[/quote]

And what happened after prohibition was over? They moved onto other illegal activities. Just because MJ is made legal is not going to solve or reduce any drug trafficing. They’ll just move to something easy to make with a low overhead (take a guess).

But the bottom line is until there is a reliable test to determine a persons impairement rating at the time of running their car into another while on MJ, the chances of it becoming legal are very slim.

And I’ve been seeing the comments that certain individuals are responsible and don’t drive after smoking, good for you (honestly I applaud your taking responsibility). BUT we have way to many people that are not that responsible and forget to pick up their Doritos and Ho-Ho’s before toking it up.

51

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have [/quote]

The problem comparing pot to liquor is, you have liquor stores EVERYWHERE, you don’t have pot stores on every corner.

And what happened when liquor stores went up on every corner ? People bought liquor, including minors, the poor, and the mentally unstable. I can recall in high school, that it was no trouble at all to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle of mad dog 20-20 or some Thunderbird., for like a $1.49.

When you make it more accessible, people use that access, whether they are legally allowed to or not. You now have irresponsible people engaging in a mood altering substance, something I don’t want to deal with.

[/quote]

What happened when alcohol was illegal and liquor stores were NOT on every corner, but speak-easys and other ILLEGAL ways of consuming alcohol were common? You and I BOTH know the answer to that: CRIME. INCARCERATION. People SHOOTING people. Organized crime. (kinda like what’s going on in Mexico and other border states right now).

Personally, I’d rather deal with the possibility of a few more idiots (although not a significant increase than current pot consumers - and I’d personally rather deal with someone high than someone drunk) than PAY precious tax dollars incarcerating people for what is essentially the same as drinking. It’s non-violent. It’s healthier than alcohol and cigarettes. It costs us WAY more money to fight it an punish it, than it does to simply accept it and deal with it.[/quote]

And what happened after prohibition was over? They moved onto other illegal activities. Just because MJ is made legal is not going to solve or reduce any drug trafficing. They’ll just move to something easy to make with a low overhead (take a guess).

But the bottom line is until there is a reliable test to determine a persons impairement rating at the time of running their car into another while on MJ, the chances of it becoming legal are very slim.

And I’ve been seeing the comments that certain individuals are responsible and don’t drive after smoking, good for you (honestly I applaud your taking responsibility). BUT we have way to many people that are not that responsible and forget to pick up their Doritos and Ho-Ho’s before toking it up.[/quote]

EXACTLY.

The same way pot is considered a gateway drug.

People in this country lack personal responsibility, look at the 66% rate of overweightness and obesity in the US as an example. Yes, we need food to survive, but once you make food readily available (or anything readily available), that same lack of control takes over.

I know I am stretching my argument with a food comparison, but I am trying to link the lack of control with food to available drugs. This is about pattern behavior that this country exhibits.

52

[quote]ZEB wrote:

One of the problems with your argument is the same problem that everyone on your side has. The constant comparison to alcohol does not make pot a good drug. You say you’d rather deal with someone who is high than someone who is drunk. Others say that pot is not as bad for you as alcohol and the comparisons continue. But does it really matter which is worse? Why split those hairs as a defense for legalization? That one is legal and the other is not makes it compelling to compare the two I suppose. Yet, it matters not if both are bad.

Where is the compelling argument that pot is good for society, and good for your body and brain? (Don’t post the pot for cancer patients video I’ve seen it and it is lacking).

[/quote]

One of the problems your side has that a society that only “allows” stuff (really?) that is 100% positively proven to be “beneficial” to “society” is an unbearable shithole.

53

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I used to be rather anti-pot mainly b/c of the smoking aspect of it , have been anti-cigs since 3rd grade. Then it hit me that who am I to judge what others do when I can legally get drunk off my ass whenever I want.

Does prohibition work? It does for me, as in if it were legal I probably would try it from time to time (in baked goods), where as now I could lose my job if tested.[/quote]

54

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
I used to be rather anti-pot mainly b/c of the smoking aspect of it , have been anti-cigs since 3rd grade. Then it hit me that who am I to judge what others do when I can legally get drunk off my ass whenever I want.

Does prohibition work? It does for me, as in if it were legal I probably would try it from time to time (in baked goods), where as now I could lose my job if tested.[/quote]

LOL, I’m not jonesing to do it that much to even risk losing my job.

55

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright?[/quote]

You are right about that. But that is not the demographic that I’m concerned with. More teens will use weed if it is decriminalized. And if you disagree then please explain how LESS teens would be tempted to use something that is now decriminalized, easier to get and more socially respectable?

Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice, “do I drive high?” ANd many of them will be teens.

Just remember one point when thinking about this problem. Something that is made more legitimate and easier to get does not attract LESS users.

One only need look at the percentage of the population that were alcoholics prior to alcohol gaining legalization, and thus acceptance, and compare it to the number today.

[/quote]

Actually, I strongly disagree on your first point. Right now, ANYONE from age eight to 80 can get weed from the neighborhood pot dealer. If they legalize weed, that guy goes out of business! Or he goes legit, which means rules and standards to follow - I don’t hear about any teens going to get legal weed on the Left coast… If anything LESS kids will smoke because at least SOME sort of control/barrier will be in place.[/quote]

But what you’re not thinking of is the new “customers” generated by:

  1. More vendors

  2. Actual marketing

  3. More people openly using a product that will entice others.

I’m right making something legal that is currently illegal and causing more of it to be be around and watch more people use it. If we’ve learned nothing else we know that when alcohol was legal more people consumed it. In fact, there is no real debate about it. From 2000 to 2009 there were 341, 0000 traffic fatalities because of alcohol. Percentage wise that is far, far higher than the few deaths caused by alcohol when it was illegal. And that is only ONE statistic…there are others just as bleak.

Make pot legal more people smoke it-

That is a fact!

56

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright?[/quote]

You are right about that. But that is not the demographic that I’m concerned with. More teens will use weed if it is decriminalized. And if you disagree then please explain how LESS teens would be tempted to use something that is now decriminalized, easier to get and more socially respectable?

Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice, “do I drive high?” ANd many of them will be teens.

Just remember one point when thinking about this problem. Something that is made more legitimate and easier to get does not attract LESS users.

One only need look at the percentage of the population that were alcoholics prior to alcohol gaining legalization, and thus acceptance, and compare it to the number today.

[/quote]

Actually, I strongly disagree on your first point. Right now, ANYONE from age eight to 80 can get weed from the neighborhood pot dealer. If they legalize weed, that guy goes out of business! Or he goes legit, which means rules and standards to follow - I don’t hear about any teens going to get legal weed on the Left coast… If anything LESS kids will smoke because at least SOME sort of control/barrier will be in place.[/quote]

But what you’re not thinking of is the new “customers” generated by:

  1. More vendors

  2. Actual marketing

  3. More people openly using a product that will entice others.

I’m right making something legal that is currently illegal and causing more of it to be be around and watch more people use it. If we’ve learned nothing else we know that when alcohol was legal more people consumed it. In fact, there is no real debate about it. From 2000 to 2009 there were 341, 0000 traffic fatalities because of alcohol. Percentage wise that is far, far higher than the few deaths caused by alcohol when it was illegal. And that is only ONE statistic…there are others just as bleak.

Make pot legal more people smoke it-

That is a fact!

[/quote]

More people would smoke it. I don;t think it would be drastically more though.

And I guess my biggest thing is this–if adults want to smoke, they should be able to. They shouldn’t be able to drive while intoxicated, because that is extremely dangerous. But if an adult wants to sit in his living room and inhale the fumes of a plant that makes him a little lazy and hungry for 3 hours, no one other than his wife should be able to tell him that he can’t.

57

[quote]smh23 wrote:

And I guess my biggest thing is this–if adults want to smoke, they should be able to. They shouldn’t be able to drive while intoxicated, because that is extremely dangerous.[/quote]

If the studies that were made are to believed it is actually not.

58

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have [/quote]

The problem comparing pot to liquor is, you have liquor stores EVERYWHERE, you don’t have pot stores on every corner.

And what happened when liquor stores went up on every corner ? People bought liquor, including minors, the poor, and the mentally unstable. I can recall in high school, that it was no trouble at all to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle of mad dog 20-20 or some Thunderbird., for like a $1.49.

When you make it more accessible, people use that access, whether they are legally allowed to or not. You now have irresponsible people engaging in a mood altering substance, something I don’t want to deal with.

[/quote]

What happened when alcohol was illegal and liquor stores were NOT on every corner, but speak-easys and other ILLEGAL ways of consuming alcohol were common? You and I BOTH know the answer to that: CRIME. INCARCERATION. People SHOOTING people. Organized crime. (kinda like what’s going on in Mexico and other border states right now).[/quote]

Did the crime bosses kill 38,000 people per year? There were 341,000 traffic fatalities caused by alcohol consumption from 2000 to 2009. And I’m not even going to mention the statistics on deaths caused from over consumption of alcohol over a period of time. Or, the broken families and various crimes that are alcohol related.

Hopefully for the final time, one cannot justify the legalization of pot by pointing to the legalization of alcohol. Not only is it illogical you will lose the debate every time.

59

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright?[/quote]

You are right about that. But that is not the demographic that I’m concerned with. More teens will use weed if it is decriminalized. And if you disagree then please explain how LESS teens would be tempted to use something that is now decriminalized, easier to get and more socially respectable?

Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice, “do I drive high?” ANd many of them will be teens.

Just remember one point when thinking about this problem. Something that is made more legitimate and easier to get does not attract LESS users.

One only need look at the percentage of the population that were alcoholics prior to alcohol gaining legalization, and thus acceptance, and compare it to the number today.

[/quote]

Actually, I strongly disagree on your first point. Right now, ANYONE from age eight to 80 can get weed from the neighborhood pot dealer. If they legalize weed, that guy goes out of business! Or he goes legit, which means rules and standards to follow - I don’t hear about any teens going to get legal weed on the Left coast… If anything LESS kids will smoke because at least SOME sort of control/barrier will be in place.[/quote]

But what you’re not thinking of is the new “customers” generated by:

  1. More vendors

  2. Actual marketing

  3. More people openly using a product that will entice others.

I’m right making something legal that is currently illegal and causing more of it to be be around and watch more people use it. If we’ve learned nothing else we know that when alcohol was legal more people consumed it. In fact, there is no real debate about it. From 2000 to 2009 there were 341, 0000 traffic fatalities because of alcohol. Percentage wise that is far, far higher than the few deaths caused by alcohol when it was illegal. And that is only ONE statistic…there are others just as bleak.

Make pot legal more people smoke it-

That is a fact!

[/quote]

More people would smoke it. I don;t think it would be drastically more though.[/quote]

Perhaps not immediately but over time it most certainly would. As I pointed out once it is legitimized by legalization it is only a matter of time.

Because you say so?

Then why can’t an adult sit in his own home and stick a needle in his arm loaded with heroin? Sure heroin is more dangerous no comparison there. But you’re argument begs the question…

60

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright?[/quote]

You are right about that. But that is not the demographic that I’m concerned with. More teens will use weed if it is decriminalized. And if you disagree then please explain how LESS teens would be tempted to use something that is now decriminalized, easier to get and more socially respectable?

Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice, “do I drive high?” ANd many of them will be teens.

Just remember one point when thinking about this problem. Something that is made more legitimate and easier to get does not attract LESS users.

One only need look at the percentage of the population that were alcoholics prior to alcohol gaining legalization, and thus acceptance, and compare it to the number today.

[/quote]

Actually, I strongly disagree on your first point. Right now, ANYONE from age eight to 80 can get weed from the neighborhood pot dealer. If they legalize weed, that guy goes out of business! Or he goes legit, which means rules and standards to follow - I don’t hear about any teens going to get legal weed on the Left coast… If anything LESS kids will smoke because at least SOME sort of control/barrier will be in place.[/quote]

But what you’re not thinking of is the new “customers” generated by:

  1. More vendors

  2. Actual marketing

  3. More people openly using a product that will entice others.

I’m right making something legal that is currently illegal and causing more of it to be be around and watch more people use it. If we’ve learned nothing else we know that when alcohol was legal more people consumed it. In fact, there is no real debate about it. From 2000 to 2009 there were 341, 0000 traffic fatalities because of alcohol. Percentage wise that is far, far higher than the few deaths caused by alcohol when it was illegal. And that is only ONE statistic…there are others just as bleak.

Make pot legal more people smoke it-

That is a fact!

[/quote]

More people would smoke it. I don;t think it would be drastically more though.[/quote]

Perhaps not immediately but over time it most certainly would. As I pointed out once it is legitimized by legalization it is only a matter of time.

Because you say so?

Then why can’t an adult sit in his own home and stick a needle in his arm loaded with heroin? Sure heroin is more dangerous no comparison there. But you’re argument begs the question…[/quote]

Yeah, why cant he?

Given that unadulterated heroin is less harmful than alcohol.