Legalizing Weed

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I would never condone some one smoking and driving , but the high is not intoxicating there is no lose of coordination . The biggest problem some one would have smoking and driving is making a bad decision , which is bad .

Far more harm is done by the war on Marijuana than is done by the drug [/quote]

If you’re not losing co-ordination, then you’re not smoking it right.

It should be like alcohol - don’t drive under the influence.[/quote]

I would not drive , Maybe I do not get the same effect as you. I have never loss coordination . AS a matter of fact I believe it enhances coordination . I have never seen some one that smokes pot stagger , slur speech ,act aggressive ,act disoriented .

One of my favorite things to do when smoked up is throw a base ball. My aim is better than when not smoking . Evidently my form is also better because it takes a lot less time to warm up my shoulder does not hurt during or after.

Marijuana is not an intoxicant

Definitions (2)

  1. General: Substance which when taken into a body by one mean or another produces a condition of diminished mental and physical ability, hyperexcitability, or stupefaction. Commonly, a beverage is classified as an intoxicating when its alcoholic content is 0.5 percent or more.
  2. Medicine: Substance that poisons or produces symptoms of poisoning in a body. From Greek ‘toxicon,’ poison.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/intoxicant.html#ixzz25Uae4cUl

Marijuana is nontoxic

Makavali Do you smoke pot and do you get these effects ? How do you smoke pot wrong ? If it were like alcohol why would you need pot? My experience with pot is approximately 40 years . My dealer is 75 the oldest person I have gotten high with was in their 90s . They never acted any different from before to after
[/quote]

You must be one of the rare few that doesn’t become lazy while high then. The vast majority of people who smoke a bowl will become lazy and lose co-ordination.

Also: do you think years of smoking has given you tolerance to some of the side effects?

22

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I would never condone some one smoking and driving , but the high is not intoxicating there is no lose of coordination . The biggest problem some one would have smoking and driving is making a bad decision , which is bad .

Far more harm is done by the war on Marijuana than is done by the drug [/quote]

If you’re not losing co-ordination, then you’re not smoking it right.

It should be like alcohol - don’t drive under the influence.[/quote]

I would not drive , Maybe I do not get the same effect as you. I have never loss coordination . AS a matter of fact I believe it enhances coordination . I have never seen some one that smokes pot stagger , slur speech ,act aggressive ,act disoriented .

One of my favorite things to do when smoked up is throw a base ball. My aim is better than when not smoking . Evidently my form is also better because it takes a lot less time to warm up my shoulder does not hurt during or after.

Marijuana is not an intoxicant

Definitions (2)

  1. General: Substance which when taken into a body by one mean or another produces a condition of diminished mental and physical ability, hyperexcitability, or stupefaction. Commonly, a beverage is classified as an intoxicating when its alcoholic content is 0.5 percent or more.
  2. Medicine: Substance that poisons or produces symptoms of poisoning in a body. From Greek ‘toxicon,’ poison.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/intoxicant.html#ixzz25Uae4cUl

Marijuana is nontoxic

Makavali Do you smoke pot and do you get these effects ? How do you smoke pot wrong ? If it were like alcohol why would you need pot? My experience with pot is approximately 40 years . My dealer is 75 the oldest person I have gotten high with was in their 90s . They never acted any different from before to after
[/quote]

You must be one of the rare few that doesn’t become lazy while high then. The vast majority of people who smoke a bowl will become lazy and lose co-ordination.

Also: do you think years of smoking has given you tolerance to some of the side effects?[/quote]

I get lazy when I come down , but I have never got high with people that lose coordination .
I am not a heavy smoker , I probably smoke once a month maybe twice a month.

Pot has definitely changed over the years . It is so much more intense than it used to be

23

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Pitt,

People do all sorts of shit while drunk, why would that change if you legalized getting high ? It’s really that simple. Lack of responsibility is not limited to drinking, you do not need to add any other vices to that mix. [/quote]

Irrational behavior is not a proper description of some one that has smoked pot . You do know there is a difference between an alcohol high and a marijuana high ?

You act as though you have some moral authority , Do you ?
[/quote]

Does the idea of getting high (at all) have a justification ?

Do your lungs like smoke (of any kind) ?

I see drug use as weakness, maybe that makes me stiff or lame, but I do not see taking something that alters my perception of reality as a good thing.

24

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Pitt,

People do all sorts of shit while drunk, why would that change if you legalized getting high ? It’s really that simple. Lack of responsibility is not limited to drinking, you do not need to add any other vices to that mix. [/quote]

Irrational behavior is not a proper description of some one that has smoked pot . You do know there is a difference between an alcohol high and a marijuana high ?

You act as though you have some moral authority , Do you ?
[/quote]

Does the idea of getting high (at all) have a justification ?

Do your lungs like smoke (of any kind) ?

I see drug use as weakness, maybe that makes me stiff or lame, but I do not see taking something that alters my perception of reality as a good thing. [/quote]

You are entitled to see anything thing any way you like. Just curious what your justification is for you perceived authority.

I am trying to find out why if marijuana has never killed any one . And if we do not make it legal to drive and smoke. And it is extremely expensive and destructive and ineffective to enforce the present policy . Why would you fucking care ?

25

341,290 people killed in motor vehicle accidents by those driving under the influence of alchol from 2000 to 2009.

Any other bright Idea’s Pittski?

26

[quote]ZEB wrote:
341,290 people killed in motor vehicle accidents by those driving under the influence of alchol from 2000 to 2009.

Any other bright Idea’s Pittski?

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html[/quote]

How are policies pertaining to pot going to fix drunk driving or are you suggesting that if legalized then every one will smoke pot and drive ?

27

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
341,290 people killed in motor vehicle accidents by those driving under the influence of alchol from 2000 to 2009.

Any other bright Idea’s Pittski?

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html[/quote]

How are policies pertaining to pot going to fix drunk driving or are you suggesting that if legalized then every one will smoke pot and drive ?
[/quote]

Let’s put it this way…

it seems that pot smokers are a determined bunch for whatever reason (addiction? they just like it? Habit? Who knows who cares?) And simply because the government passes a law that says driving under the influence of weed is illegal (which is already on the books by the way) while at the same time decriminalizing pot, will not stop many from driving while under the influence of that drug. The decriminalizing of pot would only encourage this behavior. Just like it didn’t stop many from driving under the influence of alcohol.

The irony of your argument does not escape me. You are claiming on the one hand that we should legalize pot because many people do it anyway. Yet, on the other hand you are advocating that yet another law will fix one danger aspect of legalizing pot…which is on the books already.

But, if your fellow weed lovers already ignore the first law what’s to stop them from ignoring another law, not unlike those who consume alcohol?

Yet…

we pass various laws to discourage certain behaviors for sure. When those laws are broken people go to jail. That is a fact of life. When we loosen said laws more of the behavior that we actually want less of will increase. When we tighten the law less of that behavior is seen.

For example, when the drinking age went up from 18 to 21 (in many states) we saw less drunken driving accidents and naturally less fatalities. If we lowered the drinking age to say 16 we would see more drunken driving accidents and more fatalities.

This stuff really isn’t rocket science Pittski.

Let’s use one more example,

I am not equating smoking pot to rape in severity (how silly), but one can only imagine the increase in sexual assaults if suddenly rape were decriminalized.

Same thing with other assaults, murder, robbery, etc.

Even some crimes which many deem “victimless” such as prostitution. If decriminalized there would be a whore on every corner. “We would have certain districts where they could walk and others where they could not ply their trade” you say. Fine, but you would still have an increase in prostitution if there were no laws forbidding it.

Yes, yes I know T Nation is full of 20 something’s that think prostitution should be legalized as well. I’m aware of the crowd that I’m talking to. But nonetheless I am correct. It has been proven over time.

What we’ve learned through the ages is that any behavior that is punished is less likely to occur. I understand the argument that many people do it anyway…got it. But that does not speak to the fact that many, many more would do it if it were decriminalized. And that increase would cut across (mostly) the younger age sector.

We can argue the health aspects and many other aspects as well. But I’ll just leave you with the above for now.

Now don’t respond right away let it all sink in between tokes.

28

I see a major road block in the de-criminalization of pot is the fact that there is no “Breathalyzer” equivalent. Just because someone smells like alcohol doesn’t mean they are drunk - same with weed. But you can breathalyze them and tell exactly how intoxicated they are. I don’t think there is a non-invasive test to determine how high you are. So until THAT happens, I don’t see any way legalizing it will be anything more than a pipe dream (ba-dum-pshh).

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright? It will just be the liberal fuck-tards. So they can get high and stay home and not vote. They should have the freedom to do so, just like they have the freedom to stay home and kill a fifth of Jack. I simply don’t see how you people accept that alcohol and cigarettes are legal and perfectly fine, but view pot as HOOOOOOORIBLE… Boggles my little brain. But then again you people feel that female genital mutilation is bad, but are fine with circumcision - you all appear to be able to hold logically juxtaposed positions quite well. Must be something about believing in a religion that is scientifically impossible, filled with inconsistency and hypocrisy, and appears to have been designed to squeeze the last shred of fun and enjoyment out of even the dullest of lives, but I digress…

As for your concerns about people driving stoned, the ones that are prone to do so are ALREADY doing it anyway. Responsible people who smoke are not doing it. And the ones that AREN’T smoking now because it’s illegal are more likely to obey the law and not drive while high. So it’s really net = net with what we have today, only less tax dollars spent on fighting a non-violent “crime” and incarcerating (and subsequently killing every chance of a decent career and in effect encouraging criminal behavior for lack of a viable alternative after incarceration, of) non-violent people, many of whom are a minority that’s been historically discriminated against and are disproportionately incarcerated already…

Personally, I don’t use drugs anymore and pot’s legal status would have very little impact on that decision.

29

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

As for all you social conservatives saying how BAAAAAAAAD pot would be if it were legal, look at it this way: You uptight Christian conservatives wouldn’t start smoking, amiright?[/quote]

You are right about that. But that is not the demographic that I’m concerned with. More teens will use weed if it is decriminalized. And if you disagree then please explain how LESS teens would be tempted to use something that is now decriminalized, easier to get and more socially respectable?

Those are not the ones that I’m concerned with. I am worried about the many new drug users who will now be in a position to make that choice, “do I drive high?” ANd many of them will be teens.

Just remember one point when thinking about this problem. Something that is made more legitimate and easier to get does not attract LESS users.

One only need look at the percentage of the population that were alcoholics prior to alcohol gaining legalization, and thus acceptance, and compare it to the number today.

30

I’m not one of those guys who thinks heroin should be on sale down at the local pharmacy, but marijuana’s illegality is difficult to justify, especially in light of the legality of alcohol. Though I’m slightly uneasy with the idea of a paternalistic government in any situation, I understand the need to deem some things too dangerous for human consumption. MJ isn’t one of them. It’s a plant, it grows in the ground, it makes you laugh a little louder, it makes buffet food taste a little better, it makes shitty horror movies funny.

What it doesn’t do is it doesn’t make you beat you wife or sucker punch a guy in the face for hitting on your girl at a bar. Mel Gibson probably couldn’t have blamed his aggressive antisemitic tirade on it, and it probably wouldn’t have killed John Bonham, even after way too much.

The idea that one grown man can tell another grown man that the latter can’t pick a harmless plant from the ground, smoke it in his own house, and then eat a bunch of pretzels and fall asleep…is absolutely ludicrous.

It is dangerous to drive while high, and it should always be very, very illegal. Someone mentioned above that there is no breathalyzer analogue, and that is a problem. But other than that, MJ’s illegality and alcohol’s legality seem to be both arbitrary, and we must always do our best to eliminate the arbitrary from the law.

As a side note, I fucking hate smoking weed. It makes me paranoid and uncomfortable and extremely confused, and every time I got high in college I was just waiting to come down. Although sex on weed is pretty damn fun.

31

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’m not one of those guys who thinks heroin should be on sale down at the local pharmacy, but marijuana’s illegality is difficult to justify, especially in light of the legality of alcohol. Though I’m slightly uneasy with the idea of a paternalistic government in any situation, I understand the need to deem some things too dangerous for human consumption. MJ isn’t one of them. It’s a plant, it grows in the ground, it makes you laugh a little louder, it makes buffet food taste a little better, it makes shitty horror movies funny.

What it doesn’t do is it doesn’t make you beat you wife or sucker punch a guy in the face for hitting on your girl at a bar. Mel Gibson probably couldn’t have blamed his aggressive antisemitic tirade on it, and it probably wouldn’t have killed John Bonham, even after way too much.

The idea that one grown man can tell another grown man that the latter can’t pick a harmless plant from the ground, smoke it in his own house, and then eat a bunch of pretzels and fall asleep…is absolutely ludicrous.

It is dangerous to drive while high, and it should always be very, very illegal. Someone mentioned above that there is no breathalyzer analogue, and that is a problem. But other than that, MJ’s illegality and alcohol’s legality seem to be both arbitrary, and we must always do our best to eliminate the arbitrary from the law.

As a side note, I fucking hate smoking weed. It makes me paranoid and uncomfortable and extremely confused, and every time I got high in college I was just waiting to come down. Although sex on weed is pretty damn fun.[/quote]

I do agree with the incongruence with the legality of alcohol and the illegality of weed. yet, legalizing pot will not help the greater good as I’ve accurately pointed out something that is more plentiful and legal will be consumed more often.

By the way I wonder how many other people become paranoid and uncomfortable on pot?

32

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I’m not one of those guys who thinks heroin should be on sale down at the local pharmacy, but marijuana’s illegality is difficult to justify, especially in light of the legality of alcohol. Though I’m slightly uneasy with the idea of a paternalistic government in any situation, I understand the need to deem some things too dangerous for human consumption. MJ isn’t one of them. It’s a plant, it grows in the ground, it makes you laugh a little louder, it makes buffet food taste a little better, it makes shitty horror movies funny.

What it doesn’t do is it doesn’t make you beat you wife or sucker punch a guy in the face for hitting on your girl at a bar. Mel Gibson probably couldn’t have blamed his aggressive antisemitic tirade on it, and it probably wouldn’t have killed John Bonham, even after way too much.

The idea that one grown man can tell another grown man that the latter can’t pick a harmless plant from the ground, smoke it in his own house, and then eat a bunch of pretzels and fall asleep…is absolutely ludicrous.

It is dangerous to drive while high, and it should always be very, very illegal. Someone mentioned above that there is no breathalyzer analogue, and that is a problem. But other than that, MJ’s illegality and alcohol’s legality seem to be both arbitrary, and we must always do our best to eliminate the arbitrary from the law.

As a side note, I fucking hate smoking weed. It makes me paranoid and uncomfortable and extremely confused, and every time I got high in college I was just waiting to come down. Although sex on weed is pretty damn fun.[/quote]

I do agree with the incongruence with the legality of alcohol and the illegality of weed. yet, legalizing pot will not help the greater good as I’ve accurately pointed out something that is more plentiful and legal will be consumed more often.

By the way I wonder how many other people become paranoid and uncomfortable on pot?

[/quote]

I do agree with you that legalizing marijuana will not help the greater good. But this isn’t 1984, and not all things are weighed in light of their effect on the welfare of the Party.

Freedom comes with dangers, and you’re right that this particular freedom would come with dangers of its own, though I suspect that you overestimate them somewhat.

But unless the dangers accompanying it are great–as is the case with the legalization or crack-cocaine or drunk driving or pedophilia–freedom should always win the day over its opposite.

33

[quote]ZEB wrote:

By the way I wonder how many other people become paranoid and uncomfortable on pot?

[/quote]

People handle it differently, but I doubt that many people have as bad a time as I usually have. I do know many people who can smoke a generous amount of marijuana and you would never know it–no change in speech, coordination, etc. They may laugh a slight bit more.

Once again, though, driving while intoxicated–on anything–is never ok.

34

I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have

35

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have [/quote]

I agree, I meant that it will have little effect on domestic violence. Though fewer court hearings and jail sentences would be good.

But yes, most experts on the Drug War are in favor of some degree of legalization.

36

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I started smoking pot before I started drinking Alcohol. Why ? because no one checks for an ID when buying pot

whether pot is legal or not will have no effect on the amount of people driving while smoking pot. Any one that wants pot today can go buy it.

as far as there being no upside to legalizing MJ 50,000 people have been killed in Mexico in the last 6 years

I do know that the war on drugs will not go away if MJ gets legal but it could take HUGE profits away from the Drug Cartels

I believe the unawareness of things like the devastation the war on drugs give America the Ignorant ,Loud, Rude
Reputation Americans have [/quote]

The problem comparing pot to liquor is, you have liquor stores EVERYWHERE, you don’t have pot stores on every corner.

And what happened when liquor stores went up on every corner ? People bought liquor, including minors, the poor, and the mentally unstable. I can recall in high school, that it was no trouble at all to walk into a liquor store and buy a bottle of mad dog 20-20 or some Thunderbird., for like a $1.49.

When you make it more accessible, people use that access, whether they are legally allowed to or not. You now have irresponsible people engaging in a mood altering substance, something I don’t want to deal with.

37

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

The problem comparing pot to liquor is, you have liquor stores EVERYWHERE, you don’t have pot stores on every corner.

[/quote]

Sure you do, you just dont see them.

38

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

When you make it more accessible, people use that access, whether they are legally allowed to or not. You now have irresponsible people engaging in a mood altering substance, something I don’t want to deal with.

[/quote]
You are dealing with it now.

In the most idiotic way possible.

39

Preach it Brother Orion

40

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Preach it Brother Orion[/quote]