[quote]nikoV wrote:
From what I’ve read, Xtend has an extremely minimal insulin response on the body, and zero calories as I’m sure you already know. I wouldn’t see it would defeat the purpose of the fast, but I wouldn’t say it’s necessary, either. One of the virtues of Leangains is that you don’t have to worry about eating for the 16 hour fast period (or however you long you choose it to be). Your body won’t fall apart during those sixteen hours even if you’re not taking in BCAAs.
If you’re about to weight train, that’s a different story. Definitely take a serving or two of Xtend before fasted weight training. But at all other times, the protein you took in during the previous 8 hour “feasting” window should have you covered. [/quote]
No man…BCAAs in general create a pretty significant insulin response. Leucine is particularly responsible for this. The only reason I buy and use BCAAs is because I like to eat basically all of my calories after I train. I do occasionally have 1 pre-workout meal when I’m supposed to break my fast at 330pm…and it’s usually only around 250 calories. Majority of the time I don’ train until about 5pm and I just drink ~10gs of BCAAs about 10 minutes or so before I train. I train for approximately an hour…I’ll consume all my cals from around 630pm-11ishpm.
On the days that I have the pre-workout meal…I don’t use the BCAAs…it’s not needed then.
Rito thanks, not overly concerned about their muscle sparring effects etc. Just find it hard to throw down heaps of water during the day and i have been using xtend in my water to help this problem. Guess i’ll just have to HTFU
This is an excerpt from one of the forums on Leangains.com.
Rodney said…
I am curious as to the effect weight lifting has on acute levels of insulin. I currently work out in a fasted state, taking 10 grams of BCAAs pre-workout. After my lifting session (about 50 minutes in length) I engage in 45 minutes of cardio. I know that BCAAs will increase insulin, and that the desired effects of yohimbine will be cancelled out in the presence of insulin. I am wondering if 10 to 15 minutes of weight lifting will lower insulin enough that I could then take the yohimbine. This would give enough time for the yohimbine to enter my system and “do it’s stuff.”
Thanks!
March 12, 2010 8:23 PM
Martin Berkhan said…
Yes. The insulinemic response to 10 g BCAA is minimal.
Still though, it’s not necessarily during the fasted period, so I should cut back on it then anyway.
[quote]nikoV wrote:
This is an excerpt from one of the forums on Leangains.com.
Rodney said…
I am curious as to the effect weight lifting has on acute levels of insulin. I currently work out in a fasted state, taking 10 grams of BCAAs pre-workout. After my lifting session (about 50 minutes in length) I engage in 45 minutes of cardio. I know that BCAAs will increase insulin, and that the desired effects of yohimbine will be cancelled out in the presence of insulin. I am wondering if 10 to 15 minutes of weight lifting will lower insulin enough that I could then take the yohimbine. This would give enough time for the yohimbine to enter my system and “do it’s stuff.”
Thanks!
March 12, 2010 8:23 PM
Martin Berkhan said…
Yes. The insulinemic response to 10 g BCAA is minimal.
Still though, it’s not necessarily during the fasted period, so I should cut back on it then anyway. [/quote]
Thanks for the info brosef. I’ve wondered this exact question myself!
[quote]nikoV wrote:
No problem Facko. You were right in the fact that it’s not necessary during the fasted period under most circumstances anyway. [/quote]
The only time I use multiple BCAA doses that cut into my normal fasting schedule is when I do two-a-days, which I forgot to mention in my last post. I actually discussed this protocol personally with Dolce…he gave me some advice as well. I built it off the early morning fasted training approach that Martin has on his site.
How and Why I consume multiple BCAA doses:
First of all…keep in mind my eating window is normally ~3:30pm-11:30pm…So I’m fasting the majority of my waking/working day.
Approx. 8:30am - Wake up…have some coffee and water
10:30am - Consume ~10g BCAAs and train until approx. 11:30am
Noon - Goto work.
~12:30am - Consume another 10g BCAAs
~3pm - Eat meal 1…usually protein fluff…about 225 calories total with about 35g casein protein.
6pm - Come home…Train again until about 7pm.
~7:30pm - 11:30pm EAT EAT EAT
Even in this circumstance I am only consuming 1 extra dose of BCAAs…but, I’m technically cutting into my fast. The fact that I’m weight training though should negate that…I think.
hey guys, i’m currently taking the carb cycling approach, eating about 1-1.5gr protein per lb bodyweight, carbs are 150g training days and 60g non training days. Fats to a minimum, eggs and peanut butter. Kcals around 2400 training days, 2000 non training days. I’ve hit a bit of rut in my diet and cant seem to get rid of this last bit of unwanted fat around the midsection! I tend to be really hungry in the mornings and then again late at night.
Would you recommend giving lean gains a go? i’ve read a few of the articles on the site and the science behind it seems sound but i’m worried i’m just going to be too bloody hungry all the time.
What do you guys reckon? i know your body reprograms itself fairly quicky to get hungry when you’re used to eating so it just a case of get past the first week or so and then its smooth sailing or does it really FEEL like your dieting with this approach even once you get used to feeding times?
Also, of those of you who used lean gains as a diet method to begin with, have a lot of you continued using this approach when bulking or have you returned to a normal BB 5-6 meals a day approach?
I should make myself more clear about what i am asking. I am talking about putting a serving of xtend into 2L or more of water and sipping this throughout the fast. So basically 1 serving over a 16hr period? Surely this wouldn’t affect insulin levels too much?
[quote]facko wrote:
Approx. 8:30am - Wake up…have some coffee and water
10:30am - Consume ~10g BCAAs and train until approx. 11:30am
Noon - Goto work.
~12:30am - Consume another 10g BCAAs
~3pm - Eat meal 1…usually protein fluff…about 225 calories total with about 35g casein protein.
6pm - Come home…Train again until about 7pm.
~7:30pm - 11:30pm EAT EAT EAT
Even in this circumstance I am only consuming 1 extra dose of BCAAs…but, I’m technically cutting into my fast. The fact that I’m weight training though should negate that…I think.
[/quote]
I am posting on the Warrior Diet (WD) thread since I have been following this mode of IF for some time. However I would appreciate some feedback from Leangains followers here.
My point relates to morning workouts. What does MB recommend for those who can ONLY train in the AM? I read the link to the MB interview, where he was not prepared to discuss this topic as he was putting out a new book on the subject.
This is a recurring theme for WD too, where essentially it is optimum to train at the end of the fast period, e.g. early evening. Personally that’s not an option for me most of the time.
[quote]facko wrote:
Approx. 8:30am - Wake up…have some coffee and water
10:30am - Consume ~10g BCAAs and train until approx. 11:30am
Noon - Goto work.
~12:30am - Consume another 10g BCAAs
~3pm - Eat meal 1…usually protein fluff…about 225 calories total with about 35g casein protein.
6pm - Come home…Train again until about 7pm.
~7:30pm - 11:30pm EAT EAT EAT
Even in this circumstance I am only consuming 1 extra dose of BCAAs…but, I’m technically cutting into my fast. The fact that I’m weight training though should negate that…I think.
[/quote]
I am posting on the Warrior Diet (WD) thread since I have been following this mode of IF for some time. However I would appreciate some feedback from Leangains followers here.
My point relates to morning workouts. What does MB recommend for those who can ONLY train in the AM? I read the link to the MB interview, where he was not prepared to discuss this topic as he was putting out a new book on the subject.
This is a recurring theme for WD too, where essentially it is optimum to train at the end of the fast period, e.g. early evening. Personally that’s not an option for me most of the time.
Any feedback? [/quote]
Early morning fasted protocol is on the leangains site at this point. Basically, you need BCAAs if you are going to do early morning training with a feeding window significantly further in the day.
8am- Consume 10g BCAAs and Train.
10am- Consume another 10g BCAAS
Noon- Consume another serving BCAAS unless this is where your feeding window begins.
In other words…you take BCAAs before you train and you take another serving every two hours after your last until it’s time to eat.
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Dre: are you holding cortisol fat - or - insulin fat around the midsection?
can you post a peak at your diet currently+any supps?[/quote]
No idea about the type of fat to be honest. Its definately subcataneous i cant tell you that much.
My diet:
training day:
730am porridge - 80-100gr, protein shake 30gr protein, 1 banana
1130 1/2 chicken, half skinned, large portion of spinach
230 pre-workout 30gr protein shake, 4 rice cakes whoegrain
BCAA’S during workout
4.00 post workout 30gr protein shake, 4 rice cakes
6.00 salmon fillet 200gr, broccoli, cup of basmati rice
9.00 protein cake, tea spoon natural peanut butter
that a prety typical training day
non training day very simliar except cut the carbs after breakfast
[quote]facko wrote:
Approx. 8:30am - Wake up…have some coffee and water
10:30am - Consume ~10g BCAAs and train until approx. 11:30am
Noon - Goto work.
~12:30am - Consume another 10g BCAAs
~3pm - Eat meal 1…usually protein fluff…about 225 calories total with about 35g casein protein.
6pm - Come home…Train again until about 7pm.
~7:30pm - 11:30pm EAT EAT EAT
Even in this circumstance I am only consuming 1 extra dose of BCAAs…but, I’m technically cutting into my fast. The fact that I’m weight training though should negate that…I think.
[/quote]
I am posting on the Warrior Diet (WD) thread since I have been following this mode of IF for some time. However I would appreciate some feedback from Leangains followers here.
My point relates to morning workouts. What does MB recommend for those who can ONLY train in the AM? I read the link to the MB interview, where he was not prepared to discuss this topic as he was putting out a new book on the subject.
This is a recurring theme for WD too, where essentially it is optimum to train at the end of the fast period, e.g. early evening. Personally that’s not an option for me most of the time.
Any feedback? [/quote]
Early morning fasted protocol is on the leangains site at this point. Basically, you need BCAAs if you are going to do early morning training with a feeding window significantly further in the day.
8am- Consume 10g BCAAs and Train.
10am- Consume another 10g BCAAS
Noon- Consume another serving BCAAS unless this is where your feeding window begins.
In other words…you take BCAAs before you train and you take another serving every two hours after your last until it’s time to eat.[/quote]
Started IF yesterday (lean gains method). Stopped eating at 830pm previous night, got up early and hit the gym, took BCAA’s before and after workout and broke my fast at about 230pm. Got my calorie quota in by 10pm. Have to say its really not that tough (i’m sure some will lament me for saying it). With me being so used to eating a big breakfast and lunch i thought i’d really struggle but its been alrght so far.
Knowing that you can have a ‘proper’ meal when you break fast is awesome aswell, as opposed to eating loads of small meals and never really being satisfied. I know its early days but i think i could enjoy this type of eating pattern. Will see how it goes for the next few days but so far so good.
Figured I would post in this IF thread instead of starting yet another one.
I train early in the morning. My workouts can often last 2/2+ hours (Olympic lifting). I’ve read up on Berkhan’s morning protocol and I’d be interested in giving it a try, but does anyone think that it might not be conducive to relatively long training sessions? I would be supplementing with BCAA’s.