Woah! Awesome man
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I like it! Can’t wait to see this one fleshed out. I’m working on something similar for my next program too…
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Interesting is it something like this
squat: main sets 310x3, 325x3, 365x6 (AMRAP)
back off: 325x6, 310x6, 295x6
Doing the main lift for AMRAP and using that rep number for the back off sets.
I you did 5 reps for AMRAP then 5 reps on back offH sets?
Or is the back off sets rep number set before?
Then Bulgarian split squats for quads
after this ¨
A
EMOM 10x3 deadlift
or
B
Doing a full session of deadlift ?
I like the autoregulation with the back off sets.
I like the emom sets (after this DH experience, I’ve become to be very happy with these)
How about using a variation for either main or emom sets?
I don’t like the idea of doing 531 + backoff for both squat and DL.
But I am not sure I understood it totally, so a plan over the weeks schedule.
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This is all correct. So whatever number of reps you get with the AMRAP set is the number of reps you do for your 3 backoff sets. The backoff sets are at fixed percentages, but the reps are never fixed, since it’s an AMRAP.
Reading this actually gave me an idea, so thank you. I think instead of destroying the lower body movements in one day, I’ll pair bench + deadlift, and squat + OHP. So heavy bench + EMOM deadlifts, heavy squats go with EMOM OHP, and vice versa. This would be especially good if using a 3-4 day split.
Care to elaborate a little bit? Do you like them because you feel that they’re making you stronger, or is it more of a mental/cerebral effect? By that, I mean do you feel refreshed after doing them because it’s essentially 10 minutes off from your workout? (also, not trying to disparage EMOM in any way, but 10x3 at 55% seemed like a joke when I did it. Taking a weight I could do for 20+ reps and doing 10x3 just seems pointless)
I agree, going heavy on both lower body movements in the same day would be foolish, but that wasn’t my intention. Go heavy with one movement per day, and follow it with EMOM or the same process with an upper body movement. So I could go heavy for squat and bench in the same day, then take a day or two off. I would not go heavy for squat and deadlift in the same day unless I was trying to increase my work capacity a few months out from a meet.
So one week could look like this:
Sunday: Heavy Squats + EMOM bench + weak point work (WPW)
Monday: Off
Tuesday: Heavy OHP + EMOM squats + WPW
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Heavy Deadlifts + EMOM OHP + WPW
Friday: Off
Saturday: Heavy Bench + EMOM deadlifts + WPW
If you look you’ll see that the EMOM work for each session is the same as the Heavy work from the previous session. My thought is that using 55-65% for 10x3 or 8x4 or 6x6 EMOM will get the blood flowing without being too taxing, which will definitely help with recovery.
I’m also alternating between heavy days for upper movements vs heavy days for lower movements for obvious reasons.
This would be a 1 on 1 off split, some weeks it’s 4 days and some weeks it’s only 3. Example:
Sunday: Off
Monday: Workout
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Workout
Thursday: Off
Friday: Workout
Saturday: Off
Anyways, I did think about using a variation for the main sets, but not EMOM. I think the purpose of EMOM is to focus on staying tight, reviewing your cues, and not straining under too much weight while doing so. I was thinking of extending this program out over 12-16 weeks; the first 6 weeks would be using one variation for each lift that best addresses your most blaring weak point, obviously using slightly lighter weight than you would for a competition style lift. The 7th week would be a deload, and the next 6-8 weeks would be focusing on the competition lifts in the way I outlined earlier. In “Gift of Injury,” Brian Carroll outlines how he peaked for one of his best meets ever. He took 10 weeks to do so, with 3 3-week waves and a deload, but that’s because the percentages were high and he squatted over 1000lbs in almost every workout; he needed that time to recover. I don’t think we would need 10 weeks, maybe 4. 5-6 at most. Probably 3 2-week waves, including a deload. I’ll write out a full program tonight after I workout and include a peaking phase
Think about rotating heavy and lighter days throughout the program. So you are not lifting heavy on every lift every week. I am interested to see how hiring upper and lower 4x a week works out.
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You think going heavy once a week is too much? It’s more or less the same heavy frequency as Dark Horse I think
2 July 2018 - Legs & Back Bodyweight: 211lbs
Warmup: Bird-dogs, side planks, McGill Curl Ups
Goblet Squats 5x10 90lbs
Single Leg Squats 2x10 60lb DBs (120lb total)
Good Mornings 2x10 145, 1x10 155
GHR 2x10 25lbs + BW
Barbell Rows 3x12 185lbs
Various Back Squats with 135lbs playing around with foot positioning
Side Planks
Notes
Boring day today. My glutes are apparently not recovered from last squat day like 5 days ago, idfk how that’s even possible. Single leg squats made my glutes feel like they were being torn off my body so I cut them short. I’ll get back to them on Saturday.
Hit some barbell rows pretty easily. Will up the weight next time and go for 3-5x10 around 205lbs. Gotta work up slowly, I’ve never been good at barbell rowing.
My hamstrings feel very strong all-around. GHR was easy, good mornings were easy. I don’t feel any immediate impending soreness which is fantastic. Saturday will include 3-4x10 good mornings at 155/165.
I altered my foot position in the back squat in order to address knee pain. Side effects TBD, but so far I’ve noticed that my lack of mobility (either in hips or ankles) causes me to almost good morning my squats when my feet are in a comfortable position. I’ll figure it out, I’ve got time.
I put my program together. 17 weeks; 3-4 deload weeks, 6 weeks of variation work in the beginning, then 6 weeks of competition lifts in the second half. A 4 week peaking phase which includes a deload, then the 17th week is max testing week. 17 weeks sounds like a long time, but I don’t expect outrageous gains in that time. I ran 5/3/1 for 6 months before I tested my maxes and that’s why I had such huge jumps. That, and the fact that I had never squatted/benched/deadlifted seriously before. I’ll be happy with 425/325/475 by the end of the year. Nowhere for me to go but up once I get healthy, so I’m in no rush.
Edit: Notes from my excel sheet:
"
Week 1-6 Variations
Paused Bench
Box Squats
Paused Conventional (Week 1-3)
For Backoff Sets in each session:
Take the number of reps achieved during AMRAP (i.e 8 reps on a 3+)
and do 3x8 at 90/85/80%. If 3 reps were achieved, do 3x3 at 90/85/80%.
If 12 reps were achieved, 12 reps at 90/85/80%. Etc.
Follow with 10x3 EMOM with the movement that was most recently performed
heavy. So, if Sunday is a heavy squat day and 10x3 EMOM for OHP, Tuesday will
be a heavy bench day and 10x3 EMOM for squats. Thursday would be heavy deads,
followed by 10x3 EMOM for bench. EMOM sets should be at 60% of 1RM, either
3x10 or 10x3, TBD.
Total working reps will be autoregulated by the AMRAP set. A powerful AMRAP
means you’re feeling good, which will then require you to perform a higher number
of reps for the backoff sets. A subpar AMRAP will require fewer reps in each back
off set, so less will be expected and demanded from your body on that particular
day.
Hey Lava
I like your plan in many ways.
I would though do 531 squat and follow it with emom DL. upper lower split.
I really really like the doing amrap for x reps and do that number of reps for back off as well.
And doing a kind of DH thing with a variation for 531 set and emom comp setup.
Variation for 6 weeks, working on weak links.
Variation for 3 weeks, working on strong links
Comp lift for 3 weeks.
Deload
Test
I like the emom for a number of reasons, yes the first week it’s very easy, but you increase the weight every week, when form breaks or it’s becomming to demanding, reset and work up again.
You work on technique and speed.
I do actually feel like I’m regaining energy thoughout the sets. The last couples gets a bit heavy but set 3 - 8 just gets better and better.
If you do a variation focusing on weak point, I wouldn’t do assistance for weak point as well.
Maybe a circuit with an emphasis on back, core work, "main lift muscle e.g. quads, and condition.
pull up, plank, lunges, burpees 3 rounds and you’re done.
I really like your setup on the 531 lift amrap and backoff. It seems so obvious.
Good luck with the programming mate.
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I may have misunderstood the programming. It looked like you were hitting 5s on all the lifts in the same weeks. That is one thing I will change if I do 531 again. I’ll rotate the 5s, 3s, and 1s day in a week so I’m not hitting 5s all working days in a week and so on…
There are two main arguments that I foresee here: first is for the upper/lower split, which allows for more absolute recovery of whichever (upper or lower) is NOT being worked. The second argument is for a conjugate sort of split, doing one heavy movement and a conjugate of that movement for EMOM in order to stimulate protein synthesis with a slightly higher frequency than I would otherwise.
The way I see it, by doing Upper + lower on each day, you’re stimulating your big muscle groups 4x per week as opposed to twice per week. Two of those times are very light and easy, so I don’t think it would detract from our ability to recover. I’ll try it both ways and see what I like better; it may be easier to stick to a true upper/lower split since the upper/lower body will already be warm from going heavy to begin the workout.
I like it too. I was really trying to find a way to incorporate Wendler’s style of autoregulation into Alpha’s style of autoregulation, and I think I found a good way to make it work. I’m eager to see how it actually feels in a workout, because it already looks good to me on paper.
Can you elaborate a little bit on the strong links part? How would one go about doing that and why focus on the strong point over the limiting factor?
you make good points. I shouldn’t have spoken on the EMOM issue since I never did it the way Alpha intended it to be done. Well… I did once. Didn’t like it too much… and half the reason I train is to have fun!
I reallllly like this idea mort!! Combine some sort of burnout/conditioning with back and core, two neglected muscle groups–especially on my body. I love weight lifting discourse for this reason!
That’s another thing I absolutely loved about Dark Horse. It seems like a no-brainer once you see it, because it’s so simple. But it’s also incredibly effective I think at reducing overall systemic fatigue. Working up to a 1rm can be taxing, but if it’s only once every 3 weeks for a variation (bench/squat/deadlift rotate and each get a 1rm every 3 weeks) it seems pretty manageable.
This is what I’ve got for my program at the moment.
Week 1
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
3+ 5+ 1+ 5x5
Week 2
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
5+ 1+ 3+ 5x5
Week 3
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
1+ 3+ 5+ 5x5
Week 4
Optional Deload - 50% volume, 60% intensity
Week 5
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
5+ 1+ 3+ 6x3 80%
Week 6
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
1+ 3+ 5+ 6x2 80%
Week 7
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
3+ 5+ 1+ 6x4 80%
Week 8
Deload - 50% volume, 60% intensity 6x2 80%
Week 9
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
5+ 1+ 3+ 6x5 80%
Week 10
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
1+ 3+ 5+ 6x2 80%
Week 11
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
3+ 5+ 1+ 6x6 80%
Week 12
Optional Deload - 50% volume, 60% intensity 6x2 80%
Week 13
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
5+ 1+ 3+ 5x5 85%
Week 12
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
1+ 3+ 5+ 6x2 80%
Week 12
Squat Bench OHP Deadlift
5+ 5+ 1+ 5x5
Peaking Phase - keep the intensity slightly lower for bench as it’s easier to strain and burn out
Week 13
1x2 85%, 1x2 90%
50% intensity and volume assistance, go hard on core work
Week 14
1x2 90%, 1x1 93.5%, 1x1 97%
50% intensity and volume assistance, go hard on core work
Week 15
Deload - 50% volume, 60% intensity
Week 16
1x1 85%
50% intensity and volume assistance, go hard on core work
Week 17
Max Week!!
I apologize for it being a little tricky to read. I just copy and pasted from Excel instead of retyping it, because I’m lazy. lol
Yep looks great.
One other thing I’ve learned doing this. Is rotating exercises every three weeks for accessories.
ie lat pull downs: 1-3 weeks wide grip, 4-6 vhandle
7-9 rev grip narrow. Etc
Or row variations. Just switching up how the muscles hit every so often with angle and grip will keep the body from adapting so quickly.
Running it 531 with the main lifts as the comp lifts to practice specificity the secondary movers would be variations of the main or variations of the alternative muscle group the way you are setting it up.
Accessories could start with a emom
Accessories in the future for me will have an emphasis rotation as well posterior, quads, triceps, chest, etc. this is bodybuilding hypertrophy work for me. My “bro” splits fall here.
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I think I read it in a CT article, that you should not ONLY train the weak parts.
Strong parts of a lift, would be like training partial bench press/board press only going half way down but with more weight than your 1RM.
Teaching your body to handle bigger loads.
Ideas could be Partial squats, Rack pull, (or pull to knee if you’re really strong of the floor) push press/pin press
I sometimes to like unrack the benchpress with 110% of 1 RM and just hold it for some seconds or doing just a 1/4 rep with it, the same with squats walkout. Telling the body you can handle more weight than you think.
Yup if it ain’t fun. Well it isn’t and at least I tend to not do it.
Why the 5x5 and other non 531 variations for DL?
Oh that was the old split you did a couple of month ago right?
I really think you’ve come up with a good program
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That makes sense. I did a walkout with 202kg/445lbs a few months ago and I meant to make it a normal thing, but I didn’t. It felt heavy as hell, but I’m sure over time it would start to not feel as daunting.
I’ve never much enjoyed or benefitted from doing a 5/3/1 rep scheme with deadlifts. I think going AMRAP on the most demanding exercise with relatively heavy weight is a recipe for longer recovery times and less intense workouts for the next 4-7 days. In my experience, that’s what it was.
I remember first starting 5/3/1, and I did 5/3/1 numbers for every lift before I had an online log. I hit 345x7 conventional, but my lower back was sore for 6 days. I remember it vividly. Hamstrings were not sore at all, but my lower back was. It sucked. And if I had broken it up into sets of 3, I would’ve probably been fine.
But anyways, the 6x2 cycle worked wonders on my deadlift I think. I was able to come back within 9-10 weeks and hit my old PR for 2x2 (granted, I got injured during the second set, but that was going to happen sooner or later anyways). Example: 415 is not a weight that I just slap on the bar and start trying to pick up off the floor. It never has been and I doubt that it ever will be, but this program got me to the point where I killed 4x4 415. It was nuts. I should have ended the program after the 3x3 and not tried to push the 2x2.
I think I’ve come up with a good program too. Implementing what you and hog suggest will hopefully make it a legitimate program that actually yields results. We’re past the days of linear progressive overload, unfortunately, but the principles made apparent by Alpha and Wendler combined seem pretty awesome. I’m hoping that this program is something that can be run indefinitely, with a deload every 4th or 7th week. That would make it a lot easier to focus on school when it starts back up again, knowing that my program is simple and I don’t need to go to great lengths to create something wild lol
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5 July 2018 - Bench Bodyweight: 215lbs
Close Grip Bench:
65x5
115x5
155x4
195x4
225x3
245x3
265x3 (PR)
275x3 (PR)
285x1 (PR)
Volume:
220x10, 2x8 220lbs
EMOM OHP 10x3 135lbs
Bicep Curls 3x15 30lbs
Side Planks, a few sets of 30 sec
Conditioning
1/2 mile run - 3 min 20 sec
Notes
Solid ass day on the bench again. Worked up to a 3rm of 275 which is dangerously close to my actual bench 3rm. Actual bench 3rm is probably in the neighborhood of 285.
Anyways, I’ve had like 4 super solid bench days in a row now. I’m super happy about how well it’s been going lately. Plus, my back has been feeling good lately so I’m going to start back squatting again. When I warm up enough, nothing seems to bother my back, so it’s really just a matter of continuing with the McGill Big 3 and bringing my core strength up as I get bigger and stronger elsewhere.
So the first 6 weeks of my program will be fairly similar to Dark Horse… Actually, the first 6 weeks are more like DH, and the middle-ish 6 weeks are more similar to 5/3/1. Variations for the first 3-6 weeks, then I’ll transition over to comp lifts soon thereafter for a while. I don’t know when the next time I max out will be. I haven’t maxed out back squat since March, haven’t maxed out bench since March, and haven’t maxed out deadlift since February… and honestly, I don’t think I’ve made many gains since then. But that’s alright. We’re getting back on the horse. Squats start on Saturday!!
Also, my SI joint is acting weird. I can feel the pain radiating allll the way down to my left calf. Through the top of my glute, outside to my IT band, and all the way down to my outer calf. Last time the discomfort spread this far, it stayed spread out like this for a few days and then totally disappeared, so I’m hopeful. Just gonna keep up the side planks and bird dogs until it’s gone!
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Nice PR’s Lava
Looking forward to the new program, hope it will pay of in the end.
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That doesn’t sound good at all. Pinched nerve?
Nice work on the bench. You obviously have made gains look at the numbers. Gonna strike some heavy stuff after the training block!
Possibly. It isn’t true pain, it’s more of an annoying twinge that I feel every 4-5 seconds if I lay in the same position for a while. It’s weird.
Thanks mate, I guess I have! I think 4-5 days is the amount I should be resting between bench days now when I’m training for strength especially.
Thanks brother. I hope so too. If it doesn’t work, it won’t be hard to find something else. I’m pretty excited to get back to + sets for squats because those worked wonders on my squat. Compared to other guys my age, I think it was pretty low to begin with, but that doesn’t matter. I remember a guy telling me that he put 90lbs on his squat in 8 months using 5/3/1 and I didn’t believe him, but then it happened to me in 6 months. Again, it was low to begin with, but wow. I hope this new program can get me even half of those gains and I’ll be happy… VERY happy.
I’ve decided that I’m going to get back into squats starting tomorrow, but it’s very tentative right now. If I don’t feel good that day, I’ll wait a couple more days. As long as I keep a solid hinge and lock down my lower back I’ll be fine, like last time.
^^ meant to post that two days ago. Meant to post this workout yesterday:
7 July 2018 - Squats! Bodyweight: 211lbs
Box Squats 305x17 (3+), 275x12, 255x10, 245x0
Conventional Deadlift EMOM 5x3 225lbs
Good Mornings 2x10 155lbs, 1x10 165lbs
Side Planks 1 min each side
Bird-dogs 2x close to amrap
Barbell Glute Bridges 3x20 95lbs (much better than heavy weight)
Conditioning
got some more throws in. I’m learning rotational shot right now and it’s coming along nicely. I would like to compete in a local meet in the fall and get a mark with a 16. I’d LOVE to throw 15 meters in my first meet.
Notes
Insane PR today. The box was actually way too high so this doesn’t really count either way, but still, 305x17?!?! That’s crazy. My first time back squatting after doing single leg stuff, and I felt really fresh and ready to go. I think forcing each individual leg through a full ROM with single leg exercises helps a lot with mobility for barbell squatting, although that’s just a hunch/theory.
Super happy with those squats, but I did realize that I probably messed up. Try to follow this train of thought:
I squatted a 3+ for 17 reps. 90% of a 3+ is still a lot of weight to do for 17 reps, especially after fully exerting myself on the original 3+ set.
Because of this, I think I can do one of two things: First, lower the percentages for the backoff sets (which I don’t want to do because any weight I can do for 17 reps is probably too light). Second, put a limit on how many reps my back-off sets can have. I was thinking 10 for a 5+, 8 for a 3+, and 5 for a 1+. So if I hit, say, 250lbs for 9 reps on a bench 1+, I would take 90/85/80% and only do 5 reps. So it would be:
250x9, 225x5 (90%), 210x5 (80%), 200x5 (80%).
It’s slightly different for squats IMO, just because you have more control over how many reps you get during your set. It’s not easy, but I truly believe that every AMRAP set of squats that I’ve ever done I’ve left 2-3 reps in the tank, either because I couldn’t breathe or see or something. With bench, once you’re tired, you’re fucked and the set is over. Pausing at the top of the ROM for bench really doesn’t allow you to rest like pausing at the top of a squat or deadlift does. It’s tough to decide numbers when I’m sitting on my couch, because I have no idea how I’m going to feel or perform in sessions that are days, weeks, or months from now. I want to have order and structure in this program but I also understand that every day is different. I don’t know. I guess I’ll try a cycle with the 10/5+, 8/3+, and 5/1+ rule and see how that goes.
Another bit of silver lining is that I reanalyzed my squat form earlier in the week, and was able to get comfortable with it during warmups on Saturday. Feet slightly wider than shoulder width, barely pointed out. Break at the hips first, and thrust the hips forward while on the concentric. It felt good and strong and 305lb felt like 265. It was nice
Probably going to get a quick deadlift sesh in tomorrow before I throw. 5x5 paused conventional deadlifts, working on engaging the hamstrings and the lats and staying tight. I’d like to work up to 365ish, maybe more, but that’s a game time decision. I’ll play it slow and see how I feel tomorrow.
9 July 2018 - Pressing Over My Head Bodyweight: 215lbs
Military Press (Strict Press?) 150x10 (PR), 135x10, 115x10
TnG Bench 5x3 EMOM 185lbs (60%)
Side Planks 2x1:00 each side
Throws with 14lb & 16lb… not a great day in the ring for me but I’m grinding
Notes
Nice lil OHP PR. Got a video and all the reps look solid except the last one was a grinder. Not a whole lot to say about today, but I definitely think Hog is right about me maybe having a pinched nerve. After spending a while walking around and then sitting down, I feel a weird sensation on my left calf. Definitely not a muscle thing thankfully.
Tomorrow is deadlift day which I’m beyond excited for! I’m going to probably pyramid my sets. I’ll start at 335, then go 355, 365, 355, 335. That’s the plan. Each weight could be 20lbs higher or lower than I’m planning right now, it just depends on how my back is holding up. I haven’t done a lower body movement since Saturday (a solid 2-3 days of recovery, and my legs weren’t even sore after Saturday so does it even count?). After watching Big Hog pull 455 GD pounds from a DEFICIT (dear Lord) I’m more amped up than ever to start pulling.
@losthog… down for a friendly competition?
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Depends on the comp. and I’m old man
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