A question for Teh Mitey Stew:
I’ve been using straight-armed pulldowns as a finisher for the past few weeks. Love 'em. Can you go into detail on your technique and usage of these, and what you’ve primarily seen as a result? I know I’ve seen you post about them before.
I don’t mean to hijack, but then this is a back thread anyway.
[quote]Elite0423 wrote:
Have anyone in here tried chest supported dumbbell rows. I got them from a video of EBOMB on here. They absolutely DESTROY my upper back.
Thats how I do them.
Great exercise. [/quote]
I love this movemnt! I do it with my body higher on the bench with my back arched so my upper chest is not touching the bench, only the lower 1/3 of my sternum. The DB path starts with them together, with arms straight, then pulling up and out, so elbows are not right up against my torso. I have managed to work up to 90s for 8 good reps. I feel it in my upper back more than lats ,which get their work from fairly upright torso close grip pull downs.
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Whats up tone?
I think splitting it up is good for people who prefer higher volume.
I would do it but my back grows a bit faster than every thing else so it doesnt really make sense for me.
If I were doing it I’d probably set it up like this
A
HS pullover or rope pulldown for pre exhaust
Rack chins
lat pull down
Underhand rows to the belly button 45 degee angle.
B
Kroc rows
Seated rows narrow grip
One of the HS row machines or barbell rows to the chest
trap work if you like it on back day
[/quote]
Hey thanks for droppin in big guy.
That looks solid. Like what I was looking for totally. You know, I was doing my chins weighted for sets of 6-8 w/45lbs. My left forearm tendon/posterior side started tweakin a bit. So I went back to higher rep bodyweight. You know me, I do the slow as mollasses eccentric drop, and was holding on top for counts of 2. Since dropping to bodyweight, the tendon is chilling out nicely. Those rack chins sound good. Been a long while since I DC’d it, that’s the last time I did those. So yeah looks great man thanks!
Btw, on the seated rows, are we talking incline facing bench yeah?
And Kroc rows, one working, up in reps to 20 or so, heavy as duck right?
Rows I’ve been doing with lighter weight holding for 2 secs full scap retraction, slow neg. Been using 80lbs on those, which is topped out for me. I don’t or haven’t in the past, liked the swing/cheat mode on rows, but maybe it’s time to “get over it”…lol.
Traps are good, do them with delts right now.
Thanks again B![/quote]
I meant seated cable rows but that’s just I really feel that in the lower trap aread. With the narrow handle.
I do kroc rows last because my gym only has dumbells up to 125. But theres no need to keep the order of exercises exactly how I layed it out.
There’s nothing strict about a kroc row IMO. I never got into slow controlled dumbell rows, too much forrearm and bicep for me.
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
A question for Teh Mitey Stew:
I’ve been using straight-armed pulldowns as a finisher for the past few weeks. Love 'em. Can you go into detail on your technique and usage of these, and what you’ve primarily seen as a result? I know I’ve seen you post about them before.
I don’t mean to hijack, but then this is a back thread anyway.[/quote]
No worries here bud. I’d like to hear Stu’s answer on this myself too!
Good question.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Whats up tone?
I think splitting it up is good for people who prefer higher volume.
I would do it but my back grows a bit faster than every thing else so it doesnt really make sense for me.
If I were doing it I’d probably set it up like this
A
HS pullover or rope pulldown for pre exhaust
Rack chins
lat pull down
Underhand rows to the belly button 45 degee angle.
B
Kroc rows
Seated rows narrow grip
One of the HS row machines or barbell rows to the chest
trap work if you like it on back day
[/quote]
Hey thanks for droppin in big guy.
That looks solid. Like what I was looking for totally. You know, I was doing my chins weighted for sets of 6-8 w/45lbs. My left forearm tendon/posterior side started tweakin a bit. So I went back to higher rep bodyweight. You know me, I do the slow as mollasses eccentric drop, and was holding on top for counts of 2. Since dropping to bodyweight, the tendon is chilling out nicely. Those rack chins sound good. Been a long while since I DC’d it, that’s the last time I did those. So yeah looks great man thanks!
Btw, on the seated rows, are we talking incline facing bench yeah?
And Kroc rows, one working, up in reps to 20 or so, heavy as duck right?
Rows I’ve been doing with lighter weight holding for 2 secs full scap retraction, slow neg. Been using 80lbs on those, which is topped out for me. I don’t or haven’t in the past, liked the swing/cheat mode on rows, but maybe it’s time to “get over it”…lol.
Traps are good, do them with delts right now.
Thanks again B![/quote]
I meant seated cable rows but that’s just I really feel that in the lower trap aread. With the narrow handle.
I do kroc rows last because my gym only has dumbells up to 125. But theres no need to keep the order of exercises exactly how I layed it out.
There’s nothing strict about a kroc row IMO. I never got into slow controlled dumbell rows, too much forrearm and bicep for me. [/quote]
Thanks man. GOod point on that last sentence too. Almost like I’m looking for a reason like that to “justify” them to myself. Funny how we can get too anal about form, or at least in my case…lol. I never thought of it like that and yet it is so obvious as a reason for doing them like that with a bit of “english” etc.
Anyway, you got me on that one…:)Thanks. While I do “feel” the target area doing them “my way”, I also now thanks to you, see the benefit with more clarity to doing them as only they can be done at those weights "Kroc"ish that is…
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
[quote]JayPierce wrote:
A question for Teh Mitey Stew:
I’ve been using straight-armed pulldowns as a finisher for the past few weeks. Love 'em. Can you go into detail on your technique and usage of these, and what you’ve primarily seen as a result? I know I’ve seen you post about them before.
I don’t mean to hijack, but then this is a back thread anyway.[/quote]
No worries here bud. I’d like to hear Stu’s answer on this myself too!
Good question.[/quote]
What I like to do, is to actually start off with these. I know that I can move a ton of weight doing any sort of rowing or pulling movement, but as my arms have always been dominant, realizing how to engage my actual back muscle in the movements has been very important in my development.
Using the rope attachment, I feel that I can get a much better stretch at the top of the movement (when my hands come together), but also get a better back contraction at the bottom (when my hands come far apart as I really crunch my midback hard. I also like to angle my body slightly forward , which allows me to really feel my lower lats at the stretch point (Christian actually commented on this as well when I was training out in Colorado with him).
I like to follow these up with V-Grip pulldowns, where I make certain to keep a fully upright torso, and keep my elbows close together throughout the full ROM (which only comes down to my hands being directly in front of my face). I feel that the pre-exhaust of my lats from the straight arm work, and then going into pulldowns that are focused on maintaining the majority of stress actually on the lat muscles, has helped me thicken up my back considerably in the last year. After my '09 contest, I accepted that I couldn’t reduce my hip bones, so I set out to offset the effect as best as I could. This approach has been a constant for me since that time, and looking at pics from the '10 shows, I really think it allowed me to have a much better X-Frame effect.
S
You face away from the machine for the SAPD’s? And you do your rowing after the pulldowns?
I’m gonna have to try the V-Grip pulldowns the way you describe. By V-Grip you mean halfway between neutral and supinated?
I don’t face away from the machine, I face towards the cable (set at the highest notch), but stand pretty far away so that I can angle my torso forward and get a deep stretch in my lats. I follow this up with Pulldowns using the V-Grip handle (the one most people use for cable rows). I find that this combo really hits my lats much better than the zillion chins I used to do.
My rowing is done either right after that combo, or, sometimes I will do scapular retractions in the cable station before moving on to rows (which further pre-exhausts the smaller muscles in my mid back).
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I don’t face away from the machine, I face towards the cable (set at the highest notch), but stand pretty far away so that I can angle my torso forward and get a deep stretch in my lats. I follow this up with Pulldowns using the V-Grip handle (the one most people use for cable rows). I find that this combo really hits my lats much better than the zillion chins I used to do.
My rowing is done either right after that combo, or, sometimes I will do scapular retractions in the cable station before moving on to rows (which further pre-exhausts the smaller muscles in my mid back).
S[/quote]
Thanks for contributing Stu.
Hey btw, when you’re doing your vbar pulls, do you use any pause technique at the full contraction mark, or do you just pull and drop back down quickly?
One requires less weight, one doesn’t obviously. I’m curious to your take/use of pausing in your movements.
Thanks.
Once again, thanks for the low-down, Stu.
I’m gonna give this a shot on my next back day. Not sure how it’s gonna work with DL’s being last, but we’ll see.
By the way, I’ve been heeding your advice to take it slow and steady with the fat loss, and it seems to be working like a charm. Lost about 10 pounds since Sep 1, and I just hit a PR in the DL (only by five pounds, but it counts).
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Thanks for contributing Stu.
Hey btw, when you’re doing your vbar pulls, do you use any pause technique at the full contraction mark, or do you just pull and drop back down quickly?
One requires less weight, one doesn’t obviously. I’m curious to your take/use of pausing in your movements.
Thanks.[/quote]
I do hold it for a second (get a good squeeze with just the lats) before controlling the weight on the way up, but I don’t pause at the top, I try for a quick reversal of direction (a la CT’s ‘fast turnarounds’).
S
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Thanks for contributing Stu.
Hey btw, when you’re doing your vbar pulls, do you use any pause technique at the full contraction mark, or do you just pull and drop back down quickly?
One requires less weight, one doesn’t obviously. I’m curious to your take/use of pausing in your movements.
Thanks.[/quote]
I do hold it for a second (get a good squeeze with just the lats) before controlling the weight on the way up, but I don’t pause at the top, I try for a quick reversal of direction (a la CT’s ‘fast turnarounds’).
S[/quote]
Ok thanks Stu, so a pause on bottom full contraction, then controlled up and back down again fairly quickly. Great!
I’ve always thought in the fashion of widening versus thickening exercises.
My lats wouldn’t be so wide if it werent for pulldowns and pull-ups.
Speaking of, I need to update my pictures.
my humble thoughts on the topic: i definantly like the idea of splitting up the back into a thickness and a widening day. but sometimes (like right now) i am doing a single bodypart split so it just does not really fit my program. if doing a single back day i think alternating a thickness movement with a width movement can also be very effective. whatever you feel you need to prioritize put first and then alternate thickness and width movements. as an example i am more focused on thickness right now so this was my back day.
heavy deads
followed by a circuit:
rear flies*
weighted pullups(very wide)
db rows
close grip supinated pulldowns
5 x through
straight leg dead lift
then bent over rows to finish
*i put these first because if i do them at the end of the circuit i dont stay very strict and they are worthless
does anybody else do rear delts on back day?
[quote]kirchman wrote:
my humble thoughts on the topic: i definantly like the idea of splitting up the back into a thickness and a widening day. but sometimes (like right now) i am doing a single bodypart split so it just does not really fit my program. if doing a single back day i think alternating a thickness movement with a width movement can also be very effective. whatever you feel you need to prioritize put first and then alternate thickness and width movements. as an example i am more focused on thickness right now so this was my back day.
heavy deads
followed by a circuit:
rear flies*
weighted pullups(very wide)
db rows
close grip supinated pulldowns
5 x through
straight leg dead lift
then bent over rows to finish
*i put these first because if i do them at the end of the circuit i dont stay very strict and they are worthless
does anybody else do rear delts on back day?
[/quote]
If I dont have a day for shoulders in my routine I split the delts up. Its very convenient to throw a few super sets of face pulls and reverse pec deck flies at the end of a back workout.
Your back is serious man. Good shit. Tweak that posing though
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
What I like to do, is to actually start off with these. I know that I can move a ton of weight doing any sort of rowing or pulling movement, but as my arms have always been dominant, realizing how to engage my actual back muscle in the movements has been very important in my development.
Using the rope attachment, I feel that I can get a much better stretch at the top of the movement (when my hands come together), but also get a better back contraction at the bottom (when my hands come far apart as I really crunch my midback hard. I also like to angle my body slightly forward , which allows me to really feel my lower lats at the stretch point (Christian actually commented on this as well when I was training out in Colorado with him).
I like to follow these up with V-Grip pulldowns, where I make certain to keep a fully upright torso, and keep my elbows close together throughout the full ROM (which only comes down to my hands being directly in front of my face).
S[/quote]
Tried this today, and damn does it work. Used 2x8 warm-up sets and then ramped 3x8 for the SAPD’s, 3x8 for the V-Grip PD’s, and 3x8 bent rows. Didn’t do DL’s today, but they wouldn’t have been a problem.
Using my tricep rope attachment is no good for SAPD’s. Need to make a longer one just for these. Still, a straight bar with about a 12" grip spacing worked pretty well.
I’ve never quite been able to feel my lats like that. It was a real eye opener when I got to the bent rows. And I didn’t even use as much weight as I could have.
This should be posted here, soon or later. Dorian thoughts about back training:
http://clips.team-andro.com/watch/90fc2731b6a61262313b/the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-back-training
great stuff!!
Personally I trained this way:
bench presses/rowing movements
all legs movements
shoulder presses & pull/chin ups/downs
really good split. Great pump after training, good gains. But what I noticed is that lats were growing much faster then my upper back. Besides that, upper back & lats work together (more or less), so after 8th week I felt that I overtrained my back a little, my maxes in rowing & pull ups went down. But it is obviously an individual thing, for example Stu & Bonez are telling smth else… so that’s just my personal thoughts!
[quote]theVANDAL wrote:
This should be posted here, soon or later. Dorian thoughts about back training:
http://clips.team-andro.com/watch/90fc2731b6a61262313b/the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-back-training
great stuff!!
Personally I trained this way:
bench presses/rowing movements
all legs movements
shoulder presses & pull/chin ups/downs
really good split. Great pump after training, good gains. But what I noticed is that lats were growing much faster then my upper back. Besides that, upper back & lats work together (more or less), so after 8th week I felt that I overtrained my back a little, my maxes in rowing & pull ups went down. But it is obviously an individual thing, for example Stu & Bonez are telling smth else… so that’s just my personal thoughts! [/quote]
This is my current lifting regimen. I try to get in and out within 30 or 40 mins. It’s great because you need little rest if you are doing a press then a pull back and forth.
Wow! What can I say guys…
Thank you all for the great posts. Good stuff comin down the pipe here for sure.
Kirchman, your back is fucking monstrously fucking huge and has great seperation.
Very impressed with that. That rear lat spread pose has nothing wrong with it imo, lol…
YOu guys are really bringing a smile to my face. I thank you again.
Cheers.
thanks bonez and in the zone. i appreciate the kind words.
