Latest Creatine Controversy

sjfou · June 17, 2007, 5:26pm

Heres one for the pro-CM / Anti-CEE/Kre-a crowd… Food for thought:

It is from the ISSN Conference in the States. What do you think?

Kre-alkalyn? supplementation has no beneficial effect on creatine-to-creatinine conversion rates.

Tallon MJ1 and Child R2

1University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 2Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. DrTallon@CR-Technologies.net

All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp. (Billings, MT, USA) claim that Kre-alkalyn? (KA) a ?Buffered? creatine, is 100% stable in stomach acid and does not convert to creatinine. In contrast, they also claim that creatine monohydrate (CM) is highly pH labile with more than 90% of the creatine converting to the degradation product creatinine in stomach acids. To date, no independent or university laboratory has evaluated the stability of KA in stomach acids, assessed its possible conversion to creatinine, or made direct comparisons of acid stability with CM.

This study examined whether KA supplementation reduced the rate of creatine conversion to creatinine, relative to commercially available CM (Creapure?). Creatine products were analyzed by an independent commercial laboratory using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP). Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes and immediately analyzed by HPLC (UV) for creatine and creatinine.

In contrast to the claims of All American Pharmaceutical and Natural Foods Corp., the rate of creatinine formation from CM was found to be less than 1% of the initial dose, demonstrating that CM is extremely stable under acidic conditions that replicate those of the stomach. This study also showed that KA supplementation actually resulted in 35% greater conversion of creatine to creatinine than CM. In conclusion the conversion of creatine to creatinine is not a limitation in the delivery of creatine from CM and KA is less stable than CM in the acid conditions of the stomach.

Supported by Cr-Technologies, LLP, London, England

sjfou · June 17, 2007, 9:34pm

And on CEE:

Creatine ethyl ester rapidly degrades to creatinine in stomach acid

Child R and Tallon MJ

1Department of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Rd, Kingston-upon-Thames, United Kingdom. 2University of Northumbria, Sport Sciences, Northumbria University, Northumberland Building, Newcastle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, DrChild@CR-Technologies.net

Creatine ethyl ester (CEE) is a commercially available synthetic creatine that is now widely used in dietary supplements. It comprises of creatine with an ethyl group attached and this molecular configuration is reported to provide several advantages over creatine monohydrate (CM). The Medical Research Institute (CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (CE2) provides greater solubility in lipids, leading to improved absorption. Similarly San (San Corporation, CA, USA) claim that the CEE in their product (San CM2 Alpha) avoids the breakdown of creatine to creatinine in stomach acids. Ultimately it is claimed that CEE products provide greater absorption and efficacy than CM. To date, none of these claims have been evaluated by an independent, or university laboratory and no comparative data are available on CEE and CM.

This study assessed the availability of creatine from three commercial creatine products during degradation in acidic conditions similar to those that occur in the stomach. They comprised of two products containing CEE (San CM2 Alpha and CE2) and commercially available CM (Creapure?). An independent laboratory, using testing guidelines recommended by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP), performed the analysis. Each product was incubated in 900ml of pH 1 HCL at 37? 1oC and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes. Creatine availability was assessed by immediately assaying for free creatine, CEE and the creatine breakdown product creatinine, using HPLC (UV)

After 30 minutes incubation only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2, while the amount of CEE available from San CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%. In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from the CM product. These reductions in CEE availability were accompanied by substantial creatinine formation, without the appearance of free creatine. After 120minutes incubation 72% of the CEE was available from CE2 with only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha, while more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

CEE is claimed to provide several advantages over CM because of increased solubility and stability. In practice, the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine. This substantially reduces creatine availability in its esterified form and as a consequence creatines such as San CM2 and CE2 are inferior to CM as a source of free creatine.

Supported by Cr-Technologies, LLP, London, England

HugeMutha · June 17, 2007, 10:17pm

[quote]sjfou wrote:

Supported by Cr-Technologies, LLP, London, England[/quote]

Hmmm… I wonder what Cr-Technologies sells…???

sjfou · June 17, 2007, 11:23pm

Yeah, im 100% sure the Cr in Cr-Tech DOESNT stand for creatine & they dont have a new super-dooper creatine product in the works that a billion times more effective than everything else on the market but its interesting reading anyway.

Maximillian · June 18, 2007, 5:43am

Well obviously anyone competing in the creatine market will have every interest to kick Kre-A out of the party. I tried to find the company but I only found an archive.

CR-Tech apparently doesn’t even exist anymore, here’s a google cache to their site.

[url]http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:3MNwBycqfeEJ:s137700669.websitehome.co.uk/+cr+technologies&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=ca[/url]

[quote]As a leader in the industry, CR-Technologies? dedicates a substantial proportion of its resources to research and development to further improve its ingredient range.

CR-Technologies? provides its clients with the most advanced food ingredients, but our expertise does not simply stop there. Our customer centric business model also provides technical and legislative expertise, to help our customers fully exploit the expanding global market in functional foods and nutraceuticals.[/quote]

Maximillian · June 18, 2007, 5:45am

Whoops my mistake, found their new site with a little more scooping;

http://www.cr-technologies.net/

and they make “CreaSafe” apparently… so yeah, I’d say we wait until a NEUTRAL party does some research on Kre-Alkalyn/CEE.

michael2507 · June 18, 2007, 4:20pm

The above study on Kre-Alkalyn seems to support the findings of the following study…

[quote]
Life Sci. 1999 Oct 29;65(23):2463-70.

Acute creatine ingestion in human: consequences on serum creatine and creatinine concentrations.

Schedel JM, Tanaka H, Kiyonaga A, Shindo M, Schutz Y.

Institute of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, Lausanne University, Switzerland.

The aim of the study was to explore the effect of an acute dose of creatine (Cr) ingestion on serum Cr and serum creatinine (Crn) concentrations. Sixteen healthy subjects ingested a single dose of Cr (20 g) followed by the measurement of serum Cr and Crn concentration for 3 h up to a maximum of 6 h (n=6).

In response to Cr ingestion a large rise in serum Cr concentration was observed (by 50 folds) occurring approximately 2 1/2h after the ingestion (peak value of 2.17 +/- 0.66 mmol x l(-1)). We also found a moderate but significant rise in serum Crn concentration averaging 13 % after 3 h (peak value at 99.5 +/- 10.5 micromol x l(-1)).

A dose response curve obtained in two case studies, in whom different doses of Cr were ingested (0, 2.5, 5, 10, 15, 20 g and 0, 10, 20, 30 g), showed that serum Cr concentration as well as the peak time increased linearly with Cr ingestion. In addition, acute Crn ingestion (5 g) resulted in a substantial increase in serum Crn concentration (by 10 folds) but led to a minor rise in serum Cr concentration (by 2 folds).

These results suggest that when acute doses of Cr are ingested in humans, the degree of conversion of exogenous Cr to Crn in the stomach and the gut can be considered as negligible following the first 6 h of ingestion. However, further studies are required to explore the prolonged effect of Cr on Crn metabolism.[/quote]

un33q · June 18, 2007, 5:40pm

anything on tri-creatine malate? can’t seem to find a lot of info on it.

David_Barr · June 18, 2007, 9:13pm

Just when I thought I couldn’t despise the supplement industry anymore…

I wonder when people will get fed up with all of the bullshit and say “I’ve had enough.” Maybe the continual influx of noobs, and apathy of more experienced people, will prevent this.

David_Barr · June 18, 2007, 9:14pm

I reviewed several “types” of creatine, including the one you mention, here: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=768093

[quote]un33q wrote:
anything on tri-creatine malate? can’t seem to find a lot of info on it.[/quote]

DrTallon · June 19, 2007, 7:35pm

[quote]Maximillian wrote:
Whoops my mistake, found their new site with a little more scooping;

www.cr-technologies.net

and they make “CreaSafe” apparently… so yeah, I’d say we wait until a NEUTRAL party does some research on Kre-Alkalyn/CEE.[/quote]

I am an author of the study an would like to address this point.

CR-Technologies does not sell a creatine product we are a company that sells delivery system for nutraceuticals of which one application is creatine.

I am and have worked for multiple companies that sell products which contain Creatine Ethyl ester (iSatori and Labrada to name just 2) products so if we where a biased company why would we release this data?

The facts are we have looked over many years at a host of products which may suit the application of our technology and the assessment of CEE and Kre-alkalyn where just a few of these. As such we thought the industry would be interested in the results given the nature of the outcome.

We would be happy to have used any creatine (cee or similar) with our delivery technology if the data would have come back differently. However, we found it not favorable, but that is science and you can only report the facts.

Additionally we had our results confirmed by an independent analytical lab and from which we did not touch the products. They where sent direct from the manufacture to the company incase any issues of product tampering where raised.

I hope you can now take the studies on face value.

Best Regards DOCT

sjfou · June 19, 2007, 10:25pm

^ Thanks Doc ^

HugeMutha · June 21, 2007, 2:26am

[quote]DrTallon wrote:
Maximillian wrote:
Whoops my mistake, found their new site with a little more scooping;