[quote] Brook wrote:
I tend to progress the intensity over the load - as mentioned the medial head when isolated is a particularly weak muscle so other than microloading it is difficult - nay, awkward to progress.
So, i progress it with supersets, alot of drop sets, rest pause, strip sets primarily. One of my favourites is getting first failure with the 18kg DBs then doing a drop set of 10lb plate raises.
I also like to use the 12kg to failure for a very strict set of seated laterals, straight to standing with a little more body english - straight to 10kg plate side raises. 2-3 sets of that and the medial delt is toast.
JJ[/quote]
How much has it grown from doing that?
Recently watched Ronnie’s Cost of Redemption DVD again… After Seated DB Presses he goes to that one lateral/ohp combo station and does high rep machine laterals, followed immediately by presses with the most awkward grip ever. Quite interesting…
Not my kind of thing, though.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Brook wrote:
I tend to progress the intensity over the load - as mentioned the medial head when isolated is a particularly weak muscle so other than microloading it is difficult - nay, awkward to progress.
So, i progress it with supersets, alot of drop sets, rest pause, strip sets primarily. One of my favourites is getting first failure with the 18kg DBs then doing a drop set of 10lb plate raises.
I also like to use the 12kg to failure for a very strict set of seated laterals, straight to standing with a little more body english - straight to 10kg plate side raises. 2-3 sets of that and the medial delt is toast.
JJ
How much has it grown from doing that?
Recently watched Ronnie’s Cost of Redemption DVD again… After Seated DB Presses he goes to that one lateral/ohp combo station and does high rep machine laterals, followed immediately by presses with the most awkward grip ever. Quite interesting…
Not my kind of thing, though.[/quote]
I think the presses your referring to are just akward looking over head extensions. He sort of reverses his grip? and its close grip and looks like mostly triceps? Sort of imitating his 1 arm over head extensions, but on a maching?
I havent watched it in a while so Im not sure, but I think thats what your talking about.
I think a good way to progress with lateral raises is to pick a fairly heavy weight, say something you need to loosen up your form with to reach 8-10 reps at failure. Then over several workouts progress in reps to the point that it turns into 20-25 reps with good form for failure. Then it’s time to up the weaight and get back to the very heavy set.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Brook wrote:
I tend to progress the intensity over the load - as mentioned the medial head when isolated is a particularly weak muscle so other than microloading it is difficult - nay, awkward to progress.
So, i progress it with supersets, alot of drop sets, rest pause, strip sets primarily. One of my favourites is getting first failure with the 18kg DBs then doing a drop set of 10lb plate raises.
I also like to use the 12kg to failure for a very strict set of seated laterals, straight to standing with a little more body english - straight to 10kg plate side raises. 2-3 sets of that and the medial delt is toast.
JJ
How much has it grown from doing that?
Recently watched Ronnie’s Cost of Redemption DVD again… After Seated DB Presses he goes to that one lateral/ohp combo station and does high rep machine laterals, followed immediately by presses with the most awkward grip ever. Quite interesting…
Not my kind of thing, though.[/quote]
[quote]Der Candy wrote:
I think a good way to progress with lateral raises is to pick a fairly heavy weight, say something you need to loosen up your form with to reach 8-10 reps at failure. Then over several workouts progress in reps to the point that it turns into 20-25 reps with good form for failure. Then it’s time to up the weaight and get back to the very heavy set.[/quote]
Hmm… that will only serve you in the beginning stages of lat delt building - let me put it like this.
For me that weight would be around 20kg… thats 44lbs. I highly doubt that it is even possible to progress to doing 45lbs with perfect form, as that is near what the biggest bodybuilders can use… who IME mostly use more weight with a little english or around that weight with rigid form for 15.
It is a good technique up to around 30lbs IME - but beyond that it would need further manipulation.
Of course it is a common technique to progress in reps first then use weight to drop them back down. But the difference between 8 sloppy side raises and 25 perfect form raises is so extreme it is not always possible to progress to that goal.
I know what you mean and I agree with you but I didn’t say perfect form I said good form. I think on an exercise like lateral raises heavy weight can be very hard and not necessary.
The progression happens when after a week or two you get more and more reps until you can complete the cycle. Don’t look at the program as 6 different exercises with no rest, but rather as one big mechanical drop set. Let me explain. Front raises work front delts but also a little lateral delt. This primes you a bit before going for the direct hit of DB lateral raises which you to do failure.
Now you do a L-lateral which puts you in a easier position to lift the weight which allows you to do more reps (the same as you would do by simply dropping the weight and doing more reps as in the normal drop set manner) Upright rows are next with an even better mechanical advantage for the lateral head which means you can do more reps. (again the same as dropping the weight again.)
Presses work front delt, but again also a bit lateral for the final hit before working the rear delt and the rear part of the lateral head. Shoulders actually have seven seperate parts if you know your anatomy. Hitting them in as short a period as possible with as many angles as possible will ensure the best developement. Look at the shoulders of gymnasts-lots of angles lots of continuous tension at a time.
You can’t argue with their shoulder strength and developement. This does not kill the shoulders as many will think and you will progress week for week with more reps untill you see that now I can go up in weight again. Try this for a few weeks before making the statement that there is no progression. Read the five points of making a muscle grow by Thibs. Volume,intensity,density etc.
All of these points have room for progression whether it be more weight, less rest, more volume etc. Weight isn’t the only progression that exists, but it is a great gauge for it and that’s why everyone uses it. This is a specialization program for six weeks-not a permanent program. It will spurt new growth if you don’t progress anymore with your normal delt routine.
How the hell do you get any kind of progression out of that?
Newb’s variant allows for progression. That other thing smashes you into the ground for one workout… And what does that help you with?
You don’t grow from annihilating your muscles once, or from lifting the same or nearly the same (light) weights every session.
#Edit: I would go for 7-8 reps and more control on the negative though, newb. But to each his own.[/quote]
I’m just gonna go ahead and throw out again how awesome that lat raise machine where your forearms are pushing against pads is. My shoulders have never been this sore and I was barely able to do dumbbell lat raises after a few sets of that machine.
It’s also much easier to pyramid up weight and progress.
Seriously, try it if you haven’t. The constant and even tension is nice too.
Also, unrelated to progression, but I saw a big guy doing this and tried it and it works very well…
Do one arm dumbbell lat raises, but your free arm is holding onto something, like a pushdown stand or something, and you lean to the side that you’re doing the raisers with kind of, so you have a greater range of motion and more constant tension.
I can’t explain it that well, so I drew a picture. Doing it this way feels good, try it out.
[quote]Artem wrote:
I’m just gonna go ahead and throw out again how awesome that lat raise machine where your forearms are pushing against pads is. My shoulders have never been this sore and I was barely able to do dumbbell lat raises after a few sets of that machine.
It’s also much easier to pyramid up weight and progress.
Seriously, try it if you haven’t. The constant and even tension is nice too.
Also, unrelated to progression, but I saw a big guy doing this and tried it and it works very well…
Do one arm dumbbell lat raises, but your free arm is holding onto something, like a pushdown stand or something, and you lean to the side that you’re doing the raisers with kind of, so you have a greater range of motion and more constant tension.
I can’t explain it that well, so I drew a picture. Doing it this way feels good, try it out.[/quote]
i’m guessing you’re talking about the nautilus machine, right? your arms aren’t held straight out, but it’s more of a “chicken wing” looking move? i plan on trying this with dumbbells assuming that i can use more weight than the conventional straight-arm side lateral raise?
has anyone tried this bent-arm lateral raise with dumbbells and had success. i’m gonna try it and see what happens in hopes that it will allow me to go heavier…
