Late Workout... PWO Question

Diet and Nutrition
1

Due to my work and family responsibilities, I work out pretty late…around 8:30-9 or so. My fam and I have dinner around 6:30, and after they are asleep I get myself ready and head out.

For a long time, this has been my routine:
Pre workout shake with 3/4 cup of cranberry/pom juice and a scoop of ON whey.

Post workout shake with 1 cup milk, 1 tablespoon peanut butter and scoop of protein and creatine.

The biggest thing working against me here is time. If I’m having dinner between 6:30 and 7, and I’m supposed to have my pre shake 1/2 hour before lifting, then I’m having it at 8…8:15, like 1 hour after eating.

I’m also in the middle of an M-Stack cycle, which I take at around 7:30 since it says to take it 1 hour before lifting, but that will be over in a week.

So my schedule can’t change, but my shakes can. The ingredients I have to work with are: juice, water, milk, peanut butter, creatine, and protein.

Any feedback would be very helpful.
-I

2

Your ingredients and scheduling are fine as long as you’re still getting results. I would just add more to the PWO.

3

Thanks for the response. More what, if you dont mind me asking?

4

A lot of it will depend on you. If you are gaining then I think carbs should be the priority so keep increasing them until you reach a comforatble level. If dieting, add more protein. If you want to stay the same, then do what works to stay the same.

5

what i THINK he means is you could add more to your shake…as in more carbs and make it a more solid shake…possible 2 scoops of protein instead of 1, and maybe add some oats for extra carbs…or even hersheys syrup to your shake for extra carbs and sugar…with the peanut putter and a bit of hershey syrups it tastes amazing… just an idea

6

Okay…i’m definately dieting…lol…

I’m aiming for size, here, so let me make sure I understand what you’re saying.

I should add more carbs to the mix…either oats or chocolate syrup (or both,) right? Now timing wise, from a carbs:protein ratio, are the pre/post shakes composed of the right ingredients?

Thanks all,
Ivan

7

[quote]IvanTheTerrible wrote:
Post workout shake with 1 cup milk, 1 tablespoon peanut butter and scoop of protein and creatine.

The ingredients I have to work with are: juice, water, milk, peanut butter, creatine, and protein.[/quote]

Ivan, get rid of the fat in your PWO shake/meal. Get a lot of protein and sugar (preferably dextrose) into your system immediately following your last rep (pre-mix your shake and just add water at the gym). Let it digest for 1 hour, then eat another PWO meal of the same macros (protein & sugar) but eat real food this time…white rice, brown rice, pasta with skinless chicken, fish, or extra lean beef with green veggies.

PB is great for during the day but I would avoid taking it in PWO meals because you need to feed sugar into your system quickly. Mixing PB will slow down absorption.

You might be asking if it’s ok to eat significant amounts of sugar so close to bed time. Yes, it is if you workout as late as you do. Your body will be replenishing glycogen and glucose stores after lifting so the sugar wont get stored as fat.

8

so Sungai, would you say that the mixing ON whey protein with milk and hershey syrup a good way to go?? thats what i do anyway, but i use water…the hershey syrup adds ample amounts of sugars and carbs to the shake…i dont use the PB but i figured for added calories it couldnt hurt, but i understand what your saying about absorption rate, good call, didnt think of that before!!
IronWarrior

9

JB says that if your not carb tolerant then you can cut carbs after the workout and make it just a actualy food protein meal

if your farely carb tolerant than up the protein and carbs after your workout.

10

skip the milk PWO. skip the Peanut Butter PWO. go with the juice+protein+creatine immediately PWO. Drive home, shower, thennnn… suck down the Peanut Butter + Protein + Milk + Oats and go to sleep.

11

[quote]IronWarrior34 wrote:
so Sungai, would you say that the mixing ON whey protein with milk and hershey syrup a good way to go?? thats what i do anyway, but i use water…the hershey syrup adds ample amounts of sugars and carbs to the shake…i dont use the PB but i figured for added calories it couldnt hurt, but i understand what your saying about absorption rate, good call, didnt think of that before!!
IronWarrior[/quote]

I would completely remove milk from your kitchen. Protein, dextrose, and water are the way to go for PWO#1. I am not sure what the sugar makeup of chocolate syrup is (I don’t eat Hershey’s syrup), so I’m not sure its effect on absorption.

PB is a great way to get additional calories from protein and fat, but it’s definitely getting in the way during PWOs. I use PB when I need to feel full quickly and/or along with shakes as scheduled in my diet.

The idea is to take in protein with carbs while minimizing fat or take in protein with fat while minimizing carbs. I have had great success using this model during leaning and growing phases. I find that it keeps me as lean as possible no matter what cycle I’m in at the time.

12

There is nothing wrong with peanut butter or milk pwo. The whole point of pwo nutrition is to FEED the body - to replace what was lost and stimulate anabolism. The body needs nutrients and all this bullshit that fat must be avoided at all costs is nothing but mindless micro-analyzing.

The composition of peanut butter will not delay gastric emptying to any negative or significant extent. Any impact on the insulin spike is negligable. Milk is great whatever time of the day and it doesnt need to be removed from anyone’s kitchen.

What do you mean by sugar make-up of chocolate syrup?

I should add, with or without carbs, whey protein is soaked up by the body pwo. Carbs do a lot of things, but they dont have an impact on protein absorption.

13

[quote]jdrannin1 wrote:
There is nothing wrong with peanut butter or milk pwo. The whole point of pwo nutrition is to FEED the body - to replace what was lost and stimulate anabolism. The body needs nutrients and all this bullshit that fat must be avoided at all costs is nothing but mindless micro-analyzing.

The composition of peanut butter will not delay gastric emptying to any negative or significant extent. Any impact on the insulin spike is negligable. Milk is great whatever time of the day and it doesnt need to be removed from anyone’s kitchen.

What do you mean by sugar make-up of chocolate syrup?

I should add, with or without carbs, whey protein is soaked up by the body pwo. Carbs do a lot of things, but they dont have an impact on protein absorption.[/quote]

Do what you want. Like I said, I have been very successful minimizing fat intake PWO both leaning and growing. You’re obviously on the other side of the fence when it comes to the milk debate. Again, do what you want.

I don’t remember anyone saying anything about not taking in carbs with protein PWO. Not sure what you were referring to there. You certainly do want carbs with protein PWO.

I steer clear of all fat in my 2 PWO meals. I’m already shoving a ton of carbs down. The body can only handle so many calories at once. Peanut butter is thick as hell and indeed does slow absorption, which is the same reason we all take in liquid meals immediately PWO…it’s more quickly digested.

Again, my experience is that using these tools help keep a body as lean as possible during both leaning and growing phases. If you want to look like a powerlifter, knock yourself out eh.

14

Thanks for the responses, guys.

In a nutshell, it looks to me like I should use fat free milk, hershey syrup (or dextrose,) whey and creatine in my POST workout shake. It makes sense to lose the peanut butter since the fat (even though it’s good fat) slows digestion.

What about the PRE workout shake. I currently just drink cranberry/pomegranite juice and whey. Wouldnt that get absorbed really quickly as well? I thought the pre was supposed to provide protein throught the workout?

Thoughts?

Thanks,
-I

15

[quote]sumgai wrote:
jdrannin1 wrote:
There is nothing wrong with peanut butter or milk pwo. The whole point of pwo nutrition is to FEED the body - to replace what was lost and stimulate anabolism. The body needs nutrients and all this bullshit that fat must be avoided at all costs is nothing but mindless micro-analyzing.

The composition of peanut butter will not delay gastric emptying to any negative or significant extent. Any impact on the insulin spike is negligable. Milk is great whatever time of the day and it doesnt need to be removed from anyone’s kitchen.

What do you mean by sugar make-up of chocolate syrup?

I should add, with or without carbs, whey protein is soaked up by the body pwo. Carbs do a lot of things, but they dont have an impact on protein absorption.

Do what you want. Like I said, I have been very successful minimizing fat intake PWO both leaning and growing. You’re obviously on the other side of the fence when it comes to the milk debate. Again, do what you want.

I don’t remember anyone saying anything about not taking in carbs with protein PWO. Not sure what you were referring to there. You certainly do want carbs with protein PWO.

I steer clear of all fat in my 2 PWO meals. I’m already shoving a ton of carbs down. The body can only handle so many calories at once. Peanut butter is thick as hell and indeed does slow absorption, which is the same reason we all take in liquid meals immediately PWO…it’s more quickly digested.

Again, my experience is that using these tools help keep a body as lean as possible during both leaning and growing phases. If you want to look like a powerlifter, knock yourself out eh.[/quote]

I dont look like a powerlifter. Do you look like a fitness model?

I’ll say it for the last time, peanut butter will not slow digestion of the other caloric sources to any measurable or significant extent. Peanut butter is already in a pre-digested state of sorts. It requires comparatively little digestion in the stomach regardless of how thick it is. You cant compare a high fat food source that takes a while to digest, such as beef, to peanut butter. It all depends on the composition of food.

All fats take longer to digest. That is the nature of the fat molecule. The rate of passage of PB, in the digestive tract, is relatively quick however. Like I said, it’s already in a pre-digested state of sorts. So, it will not hinder the absorption of the other liquid calories sources that you are consuming at the same time. The key word here is liquid.

I still dont understand your beef with milk. Because you dont like it, doesnt mean it’s bad.

Anyways, I’m done with this discussion. It’s on the verge of turning into a pointless debate. I know we’ll have to agree to disagree. The OP will more than likely still avoid fat sources pwo because 3 other people in this thread said that he should.

16

Okay, first I wouldn’t worry about your pre-workout shake. If you are eating at 6:30 and lifting around 8, that’s the recommended 1 hour to 1.5 hours post meal to workout, which I find very effective when I apply it. As for your post workout shake, I wouldn’t use milk with your protein isolate since it can slow the digestion rate. Just shoot for your fast acting carbs, creatine, bcaa’s, etc etc. and Whey Isolate. If you really want your slow burning proteins before bed time, wait until just before you pass out an do your Milk, PB and Casein Protein shake.