He can tell you that hes measured it all and the numbers are stellar. Im still waiting on labs…
Semen retention.
What does that do?
I’m going to look into the suggestion from yourself and @justpanicnodisco. Re: thyroid my story is that 3.5 years ago I suddenly started getting these light panic symptoms and feeling awful / exhausted. I went to an endo and both my T and thyroid were not good. I went on T and thyroid meds. Then the horror show started. I eventually got off thyroid meds bc I thought the endo was a moron and was likely over treating me (he kept upping the dose trying to get TSH under 1.0). My TSH went back to normal ish (3.3-3.6) and my Ts have looked fine.
I’ll admit that in desparation I have lapsed into changing things too quickly which I’m going to stop doing. Some of the things I felt though were so awful I just wasn’t strong enough to stick it out. I’ve had panic attacks that lasted 36h. The list of nightmarish symptoms / sides I’ve had is somewhat longer than I’ve listed here but I’ve tried to stick to the ones that are mostly consistent. I also wasn’t as informed then as I am now. However I have tried things for months to be sure. The pattern seemed to be that we would make a change (Defy and I) and I’d feel better for a while, maybe a month or two and then slowly the terrible sides would return. It was almost as if trying to balance a 5 pointed scale. Eventually it would come unbalanced.
FYI I thought the endo was a moron bc he almost put me in the hospital with hcg monotherapy and refused to test my estrogen when I called him and went to his office saying I was feeling really mentally unstable a few weeks after starting hcg and I had done some research and high e2 reports fit what I was feeling. I eventually had to doctor my own lab slip and my E2 came back at 4x the top end of the range on the standard assay (these were early days and I didn’t know about the sensitive assay).
Oh there’s definitely a component now if there wasn’t at first. My therapist / doctor believed that I have PTSD from the chronic illness / suffering. I’ve treated that too. I did EMDR which helps for trauma. I mean imagine getting low T, then doctors are like you’ll be fine we’ll just replace it and then that turning into 3 year carnival of horrors. I’m treating the mental stuff as best as I can but I still have the core problem that if I can’t ever feel reasonably normal and healthy again I doubt there’s any happiness in my future. I’m basically in a situation where off TRT I feel so awful I can barely get out of bed, on TRT its a spin the wheel every day of horrible side effects, mostly mental.
I have tried every Ester. I know it sounds like that but I really think it was the burning of panic. It was very odd it’s like I would come to consciousness in half a panic attack with everything burning. The worst burning was in the anxiety / panic spots (chest and throat) and it radiated out from there. When my T is dropping / low I get crazy anxiety / panic symptoms.
Are you getting professional help? I think based on what you have written that you should get some professional therapy.
Don’t give up. Hormone issues can be solved to feel better. Mental health issues can get better as well.
Yes but there’s only so much mental health help can do when I feel concussed all the time. I did a ton of therapy EMDR, tried a bunch of meds, did ketamine. I took a break for awhile as I couldn’t deal with always having the same thing to say which was that I felt so awful I wanted to die.
Dude. Try to understand. I’m miserable and desparate and not doing very well. Some days I barely leave bed because of how awful I feel. I just restated and don’t have labs yet, it’s too early. I feel so awful I put a loaded shotgun in my mouth a few weeks ago and was in a psych hospital for 2 weeks. I don’t have current labs as I just restated. I have not measured the things those other helpful folks mentioned and plan to look into them. At one point Defy had me on DHEA but if memory serves it was only on the mid-low end of normal.
I’m going to post old labs but I also know I don’t have the exact regimens I was on during that resulted in those labs unless I get my Defy file and do the crosswalk which seems a bit daunting right now as I’m still doing pretty poorly. I now keep a detailed daily spreadsheet of meds and symptoms and lab results but I didn’t always as I was letting Defy handle it. Remember, this is 2-3 years of labs and they are often all over the place. If the answer was in the labs don’t you think working with Defy for two years would have revealed the problem? In addition, I didn’t do the arms length thing with them, I paid extra and met via video chat with their doctors as soon as this thing started to go weird and awful.
So please, hold the negativity because I can’t handle it right now. I’m not getting to hide anything, I just don’t think they are going to be that helpful in this case because they are
- Old
- Result from protocols im no longer on include drugs im no longer taking (HCG and AI)
- I don’t yet have them mapped up to the protocols that produced them
This doesn’t quite add up for me, and suggests that part of the problem could possibly be coming from the fact that your hormones are all over the place because you keep changing everything.
Trying 3 different dosages plus one of your PCT’s would be 1 year. There simply isnt enough time in 4 years to try everything you claim to have tried while giving each thing enough time to stabilise.
Another option is have you had yourself checked for other conditions? Because your symptoms don’t sound like T symptoms, they sound like a disease state / bi-polar or somethin much more serious. I don’t know what, I’m not a doctor, but sounds like something mroe serious going on and jumping TRT protocols every 3 weeks and stressing yourself out probably isnt helping
Look man, I hear what you’re saying. A cry for help is a cry for help. And the cavalry is here to help, but you’re not working with us. The time it took to write a wall of text is what it takes to access your labs. Something is not adding up and you’re resisting giving us a key component to your success. Why? Post your labs for the last time, already. This is all starting to feel like a troll post. Im not accusing you of trolling this site yet, you have my sympathy, but your story is simply not making any sense to those who have spent time with depression and in a 5150 hold. You want me to simply understand, ok. I understand. Now where do we go from here? Support? Hand holding? No! This is a TRT site. You’re on your own because you wont show the web sleuths important information that could lead to your release from this. In the meantime, you should seek mental healthcare because there is nothing we can do without labs. Please post your labs, it will help tremendously.
Those are not normal ish TSH numbers. Closer to 1 is what a well functioning/treated thyroid TSH number should look like. TSH ranges are not like other ranges where 3.3-3.6 would be midrange in other labs. The farther you get from 1, either side, the farther from a well functioning thyroid you are.
"Severe, untreated hypothyroidism can cause fluid buildup that puts pressure on the nerves in your arms and legs. This can lead to tingling, pain , and numbness where the nerve is damaged. Low thyroid can sometimes lead to carpal tunnel syndrome, which affects the nerves in your hand and wrist."
This is from WebMD. I am not saying you are severe hypothyroid as you only provided a TSH value but you did state a burning sensation and pain. Hypothyroid can also cause anxiety. Just something to think about.
Thanks for the thought. I thought on my labs I always saw 3.5 as the upper boundary of the reference range on TSH. From LabCorp.com
10 y
Range (μIU/mL)
0.450−4.500
Aside from the burning sensation, I feel ya!
I’m a triple loser myself, Mental/T/Thyroid. TRT didn’t really work(well kinda) until I started challenging the mental side and once Thyroid was diagnosed and treated. I still struggle, but am miles from feeling suicidal now. For reference, I suffered through 21 years of insomnia. weeks of not sleeping more than three hours, then the crash and rinse and repeat. It wasn’t until two years ago that the Dr finally prescribed a med that worked. I am diagnosed CPTSD/Major depression/Anxiety. I suspect Bi-polar, but the Dr’s haven’t said so I’m counting myself lucky for now.
This will be unpopular around here, but E2 low or high exacerbate my symptoms, mentally and physically. Yup, brings back the good ole days of looking over my shoulder, sleeping for two or three hours, irritability so bad I have to isolate or jail is in the cards.
Test is no different too high or low pretty much the same thing. But what will defiantly spin me out is large sudden changes as far as TRT is concerned. Low and slow keeps me somewhat centered.
TRT flipped a switch, medication for my mental state flipped another and thyroid once again, I’m no where near a normal man, but I am far far away from what I was.
Throw you labs up brother, the miracle may just be in there.
3.5 is not severe. Yes maybe he can optimize but 3.5 should not be causing severe hypothyroidism symptoms.
Possibles:
1 TRT/HRT, thyroid, etc, treatments bringing out underlying health/emotion/etc imbalances and weaknesses that were already there before TRT, etc.
2 External medications, hormones, etc, putting you on a roller coaster (stress inducing) ride of emotion, anxiety, physical energy/fatigue.
3 All of the above not only bringing in a whole new range of "psychological and physiological (inter-related) triggers, but enhancing pre-existing “triggers”.
Actionably:
1 Seek out a competent Naturopath (not chiropractor, no snake oil healer) or other mainstream health care professional, endocrinologist, comprehensive medical center, (not a 1 year certificate) experienced in comprehensive diagnostics and health care that addresses the entirety of “you”.
a) beware buying the next snake oil cure, package of 10 meditation and oil rubs at a 50% discount, “life counselor” selling yet another series of 10 visits to talk talk talk, etc.
2 Realize our solution may or may not be the following; missing vitamin GVX, entirely a psychological issue but may be interrelated with physiological problems, lifestyle, etc; or found in a pill/dose/supplement/weight gym program/etc.
***While the human body and life is amazingly resilient and persistent, it sometimes doesn’t take much to weaken a “will to live” from prolonged relentless suffering no matter the source or sources.
3 Healing, restoring wholeness, and that special vitality to live (sometimes despite chronic illness/pain/suffering), comes from loved one’s around us and in our lives on a daily basis, attentitive and empathetic health care professionals (beyond the 3 minute office visit and another new RX) IE: Mayo Medical Center (patient centered health care and team approach to comprehensive health and wellness), etc.
Be well
Have a blessed day.
k
Mind sharing what med you’re taking? I’m in the same boat now. I had 2/3 before TRT The CPTSD and depression but it was episodic and then a few days would pass and id be back to getting stuff done. The panic / anxiety started with the low T and then with the TRT drugs. I think I’m similar I can’t tolerate hcg for example and ai also makes me feel awful in unexpected ways.
Still no labs… Just a bunch of shooting in the dark. SMH…
Seroquel and Buspar, Seroquel was prescribed for sleep and depression and Buspar irritability/anxiety.
I said I wasn’t saying he was severe. But, being that we only have TSH to go on and no other thyroid labs, or really any other labs for that matter, we can’t see the whole picture. In no way am I saying thyroid is his issue but hypo can cause similar symptoms he has stated, albeit it is in severe cases.
My response was mainly to address that a TSH of 3.2-3.5 is not typically considered a normal ish result and that TSH labs are not supposed to be read as most labs are. The severe symptoms just had a little bit of relativity to the symptoms he seems to be experiencing.
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