Last Debate: 10/22/2012

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Romney was unspectacular, but ok.

[/quote]

He had his work cut out. 70% of Americans want out of Afghanistan ASAP. Not surprising as, amongst other things nearly 15% of U.S. deaths result from attacks by the guys they’re supposed to be training. The average Joe in the street doesn’t know jack shit about foreign policy and there’s little point in trying to explain it to them - they would only consider you a “hawk” or worse a “warmonger” if you were to tell it like it is. I wasn’t expecting Romney to do well for these reasons and others. To be honest, the smart thing to do would’ve been to portray Obama as a reckless supporter of the Arab Spring and talk down any further involvement in any theatre regardless of his true intentions. But that would’ve been difficult also as Romney’s hawkishness during the primaries is on record. Another reason this debate could never have been won decisively by Romney.

122

see screen shots of ppp poll.

123

ALso, I heard a bit of the radio show bringing my daughter to daycare… The way they are falling all over themselves to say o won, and then continuing to fall on themselves to justify why they think that is hilarious.

Panic has set in.

124

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
ALso, I heard a bit of the radio show bringing my daughter to daycare… The way they are falling all over themselves to say o won, and then continuing to fall on themselves to justify why they think that is hilarious.

Panic has set in.[/quote]This brings me once more to the 92 exit polls where people sad they wanted less government, lower taxes and a strong military(in a nutshell) and that’s why they voted for Clinton. I thought I was in a lost episode of the twilight zone.

125

I keep reading how Romney was wrong about Obama going on an “apology” tour because the word apology was not in any of his speeches…Christ people can we put our thinking caps on…

126

I thought Romney would press the lack of support for the internal Iranian revolution while O blindly supported the Libyan one.

And as someone else pointed out, there are a host of other national security issues that tie into the economy which could have been capitalized upon. Energy independence mainly.

I also think alot of what Romney is talking about (bankruptcy for GM, currency manipulation in China) is over the heads of your “average voter”, who are generally to stupid to understand that. Specifically the emotional connotation that Obummer was trying to capitalize on with “bankruptcy”.

127

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I keep reading how Romney was wrong about Obama going on an “apology” tour because the word apology was not in any of his speeches…Christ people can we put our thinking caps on…[/quote]

Because that’s all they’ve got.

Look at how much attention Big Bird and “women in binders” (oh the humanity!) were given.

They can’t get anything from Romney, and in the absence of something, anything, they are impelled to manufacture gaffs for him.

That, right there, is a better sign to me than any poll that Romney is on his way to a decisive victory.

128

Note:

Concerns about Libya was the first question Bob Schieffer asked.

Mufasa

129

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Yup, twitter will blow up with #bayonets tomorrow, but it is a small thing. Jobs making ships is a big thing.[/quote]

Good point. Creating jobs through building naval ships? Who wouldn’t get behind that as a plank?[/quote]

Raytheon is big around here.[/quote]

Right,and I’m just north of you and BAE is big up here. I hate that somehow because Romney wants more military spending it is somehow associated with him wanting to build giant wooden fucking ships. Military spending does trickle over to private enterprise…which in turn helps create non gov’t jobs[/quote]

Those jobs are best created in failed green energy projects.
[/quote]

I was yelling “Solyndra!” at the TV when energy came up, why Romney didn’t call him out on that is beyond me, he failed to do this in the 2nd debate as well.

“Hey Mr. Prezzy, how do you justify wasting half a Billion taxpayer dollars on green technology when that company went bankrupt within a year?” is a question he should have asked.
[/quote]

He did say the word “Solyndra” you must have missed it because you were yelling.

130

It doesn’t matter what polls have what candidate winning for this 3rd debate. Absolutely, the most important ‘poll’ number was:

(CNN)
Do you think Mitt Romney can or cannot handle the responsibilities of Commander-in Chief?

All voters: Yes, by a 60-38 margin. Independents: Yes, by a 62-36 margin.

This is all Romney needed to accomplish, and he did it with a poker straight face.

Remember, Obama had no real experience in anything much other than community organizing when he became President. Shows that any ciuccio can learn on the job. He came into the debate with a huge advantage, not only having to make decisions (for better or worse) over the last 4 years, but having access to real time intelligence. The incumbant’s goal is to expose challengers as naive or incompetent. Obama failed to do that, or worded another way, Romney proved he could hit the ground running.

Again, who cares if people say Obama won the debate, especially close to a draw (40-something to 40-something).

I’ll post it again:
(CNN)
Do you think Mitt Romney can or cannot handle the responsibilities of Commander-in Chief?

All voters: Yes, by a 60-38 margin. Independents: Yes, by a 62-36 margin.

^That says Romney aced ‘foreign policy’.

Obama may have won the 3rd debate (the battle) I think Romney (and I do not care for Romney one bit) won the debate season (the war).

We will only know after the election.

PS. We’re fucked either way, so…

131

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I keep reading how Romney was wrong about Obama going on an “apology” tour because the word apology was not in any of his speeches…Christ people can we put our thinking caps on…[/quote]

Because that’s all they’ve got.

Look at how much attention Big Bird and “women in binders” (oh the humanity!) were given.

They can’t get anything from Romney, and in the absence of something, anything, they are impelled to manufacture gaffs for him.

That, right there, is a better sign to me than any poll that Romney is on his way to a decisive victory. [/quote]

The grassroots of the o camp is failing hard. They may be winning in the internet meme department, but when it comes down to it… Most of those people ooohhh-ing and awwww-ing over these little things, aren’t going to vote in the same numbers as people to think that stuff is stupid.

We are talking about leader of the free world here, and Romney hit the nail on the head with the whole attacking me isn’t a vision for the future stuff.

132

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
http://twitchy.com/2012/10/23/bizarre-ppp-poll-despite-losing-the-debate-romney-won-over-more-independents/

see screen shots of ppp poll.[/quote]

And that is why Romney was brilliant last night. He had to look Presidential and not looking for war with ANYONE. And finally he needed to steer the debate back to the economy which he did masterfully!

And now the chickens are going to come home to roost!

(I was hoping I’d get the opportunity to use that last line:)

133

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

PS. We’re fucked either way, so…[/quote]

haha, as I’ve said in the past I’m not bullish on romney, but I am damn sure bullish on obama has to go.

134

I’m not ‘undecided’ in the classic sense of Obama or Romney. Obama is right out. My dilemma is pulling the lever for “Romney” or writing in “Batman”

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

PS. We’re fucked either way, so…[/quote]

haha, as I’ve said in the past I’m not bullish on romney, but I am damn sure bullish on obama has to go.

[/quote]

135

Hello, President Romney.

136

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I’m not ‘undecided’ in the classic sense of Obama or Romney. Obama is right out. My dilemma is pulling the lever for “Romney” or writing in “Batman”

[/quote]

Here is the thing. I believe your vote actually counts. I live in Mass. The progressives are going to win here (although Liz Warren isn’t polling that well seeing the mean lean democratic machine in this state) so I could vote for Ron Hubbard and it wouldn’t matter. Romney will lose by 15-20 points here.

It is sad, but my little protest will be reflected on my ticket. My vote for Romney will be purely the “not obama” vote mufasa has maintained will carry this election.

137

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I keep reading how Romney was wrong about Obama going on an “apology” tour because the word apology was not in any of his speeches…Christ people can we put our thinking caps on…[/quote]

Because that’s all they’ve got.

Look at how much attention Big Bird and “women in binders” (oh the humanity!) were given.

They can’t get anything from Romney, and in the absence of something, anything, they are impelled to manufacture gaffs for him.

That, right there, is a better sign to me than any poll that Romney is on his way to a decisive victory. [/quote]

The grassroots of the o camp is failing hard. They may be winning in the internet meme department, but when it comes down to it… Most of those people ooohhh-ing and awwww-ing over these little things, aren’t going to vote in the same numbers as people to think that stuff is stupid.

We are talking about leader of the free world here, and Romney hit the nail on the head with the whole attacking me isn’t a vision for the future stuff. [/quote]

That was one more line that made Romney look “large” and Obama “small”. Looking Presidential was the goal and the goal was accomplished.

As for winning the debate each man had a different goal. Obama thought that he had to mightily defend his record especially the Libya debacle. And when he didn’t it threw his game off just a little. He did look anger at several points in the debate. And also on two occasions smiled and chuckled inappropriately. These things matter more than anyone realizes.

Anyway…

I remember watching MSNBC about a week after debate two and one of the talking heads said “I don’t get it where’s the bump from Obama winning the last debate.” I chuckled to myself.

There are only four ways that a candidate gets a bump from a debate:

  1. Crushing his opponent as Romney did in debate one, or as Reagan did vs Carter in their debate. However, in modern political history no sitting President has ever taken such a beating as Romney dished out in debate one.

  2. Having a major gaffe as Gerald Ford did when debating then challenger Jimmy Carter. Ford said that Poland was not part of the then Soviet dominated spehere of influence. Going into debate three I was concerned that Romney was going to have a Gerald Ford moment. And that is all that would have been needed for the MSLM to run with. But it never happened.

  3. Having one or more exceptional one liners as Reagan did with Mondale when the moderator asked a question about Reagan’s more advanced age he responded, “I am not going to make an issue of my opponents youth and inexperience.” That caused Mondale to laugh out loud as the audience erupted in cheers and laughter. Mondale said many years later “I knew at that moment it was all over…”

  4. One candidate rises well above the publics expectations. And now we are back to debate one of this race. In a way the 100 million dollars that Obama spent calling Romney a murderer, tax cheat and child molester (okay I made up the last one), backfired on him when Romney showed up and looked and sounded Presidential during that first debate. So in essence you had someone who was not only dominate in that first debate but overcame the expectations of an electorate that had been treated to lies from the Obama smear machine for 3 solid months.

He knew going in that if the voting were held Monday evening instead of the debate he would win so he did his best to freeze those numbers. Knowing that he could only lose points by sounding bellicose and giving Obama the opportunity to claim that Romney wants to get us into another war. POOF…all the women voters that Romney had attracted would have run back to the safe haven of Barack Obama. Not to mention other more marginal groups.

Romney did exactly what he had to do last night and he did it masterfully!

138

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

(CNN)
Do you think Mitt Romney can or cannot handle the responsibilities of Commander-in Chief?

All voters: Yes, by a 60-38 margin. Independents: Yes, by a 62-36 margin.

This is all Romney needed to accomplish, and he did it with a poker straight face.[/quote]

Exactly. Romney did what he needed to do - show independents that he (1) could be a C-in-C if elected, and (2) that his foreign policy would be reasonable, rational and thoughtful, meaning he is neither wild man nor wimp. He accomplished both things.

That’s one thing about Romney that might be unappreciated - he (and his team) seem to get the moment, and do what is needed for the moment without succumbing to the pressures to do something different for the sake of a sugar high in polling.

139

Also, worth noting: Romney’s mini-speech on the “apology tour” - often derided as a red-meat throwaway to baselings - came off pretty well, and the evidence for that was Obama’s (non)response. That was very surprising.

140

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

(CNN)
Do you think Mitt Romney can or cannot handle the responsibilities of Commander-in Chief?

All voters: Yes, by a 60-38 margin. Independents: Yes, by a 62-36 margin.

This is all Romney needed to accomplish, and he did it with a poker straight face.[/quote]

Exactly. Romney did what he needed to do - show independents that he (1) could be a C-in-C if elected, and (2) that his foreign policy would be reasonable, rational and thoughtful, meaning he is neither wild man nor wimp. He accomplished both things.

That’s one thing about Romney that might be unappreciated - he (and his team) seem to get the moment, and do what is needed for the moment without succumbing to the pressures to do something different for the sake of a sugar high in polling.[/quote]

TB:

I think Romney gained INVALUABLE experience in “doing what is needed for the moment” during the Primaries.

In looking at these 3 debates; I would venture to say, that for Romney, the Primary Debates were MUCH more difficult to navigate. He essentially had to convey that a) he was “Conservative Enough” for a very hostile conservative base (including many on “PWI” that seem to be oogling over the man now!) and b) he was the only one who could beat the President.

Another point about Romney. Reports seem to indicate that doing what he had to do and not being too aggressive last night was his call (and a brilliant one). His campaign seemed to have wanted him to go for the President’s jugular (like some have indicated here).

Again…even being a “wash” was a win for Romney.

Mufasa