Lance Weighing Admitting to Doping

Off Topic
101

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Ok then if you accept humanity has made a great deal of advancements in health and what not with the help of drugs/chemicals, why the disparagement towards PED use in sports?

Athletics is the pursuit of advancement in human performance, if PED use never came about sprinters would still probably be struggling to break the 10 second barrier in the 100m dash. Why can it not be acknowledged that maybe, PED use IS the next step in human performance?[/quote]

Basically this. What are humans today holding onto and why?

Do they really think it will be the same in society 200 years from now?

102

Because people aren’t interested in the best pharmacist, they are interested in the best athlete.

It’s the same reason there is controversy about a runner with blades instead of legs.

What is stopping anyone from starting their own league of untested athletes? I’ll tell you–fans.

103

[quote]debraD wrote:
Because people aren’t interested in the best pharmacist, they are interested in the best athlete.

It’s the same reason there is controversy about a runner with blades instead of legs.

What is stopping anyone from starting their own league of untested athletes? I’ll tell you–fans.[/quote]

But that doesn’t follow. They go hand in hand. Having the best drug regime won’t make an athlete with zero talent beat a great one. Ben Johnson didn’t set a world record because he was on steroids, he set it because he was a fantastic athlete who was given steroids to push the envelope.

It’s ridiculous he’s demonized to this day when all the hypocritical people who ran his name through the mud were fellow athletes who also got busted at various points, not to mention the incredible corruption in the governing bodies that was exposed by his coach. It really is a case of use or forever resign yourself to just being an “okay” athlete.

I’d agree with the notion that it needs to be absolute, either no one uses PEDs or everyone uses PEDs. However the problem with the former scenario is its fantastical - it could never be enforced because even if the governing bodies really do want to clean up the sports (and they don’t, too much money involved) they will still forever be 5 steps behind the athletes. One testing method is found, and the athletes move onto another drug. Shit they are still focusing on steroids when the reality is there are hundreds of compounds that no testing exists for and the list is just growing bigger with the advent of peptides.

Also regarding fans not wanting untested athletes, I’d wholeheartedly disagree. The funny thing is if you actually talk to the people who follow these events religiously, most of them don’t actually have a problem with enhanced athletes. It’s the casual observers who get up in arms about PED abuse because their only source of information is the media which only portrays a negative viewpoint.

An example: In japan fighters weren’t tested at all in organizations like K1 and DREAM, and the fans know virtually everyone is using something. It didn’t stop fighters from becoming superstars and people paying to watch these events. Alistair Overeem has been busted for abuse of testosterone, people STILL treat him like a superstar. Because he’s an exciting athlete.

104

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]debraD wrote:
Because people aren’t interested in the best pharmacist, they are interested in the best athlete.

It’s the same reason there is controversy about a runner with blades instead of legs.

What is stopping anyone from starting their own league of untested athletes? I’ll tell you–fans.[/quote]

But that doesn’t follow. They go hand in hand. Having the best drug regime won’t make an athlete with zero talent beat a great one. Ben Johnson didn’t set a world record because he was on steroids, he set it because he was a fantastic athlete who was given steroids to push the envelope.

It’s ridiculous he’s demonized to this day when all the hypocritical people who ran his name through the mud were fellow athletes who also got busted at various points, not to mention the incredible corruption in the governing bodies that was exposed by his coach. It really is a case of use or forever resign yourself to just being an “okay” athlete.

I’d agree with the notion that it needs to be absolute, either no one uses PEDs or everyone uses PEDs. However the problem with the former scenario is its fantastical - it could never be enforced because even if the governing bodies really do want to clean up the sports (and they don’t, too much money involved) they will still forever be 5 steps behind the athletes. One testing method is found, and the athletes move onto another drug. Shit they are still focusing on steroids when the reality is there are hundreds of compounds that no testing exists for and the list is just growing bigger with the advent of peptides.

Also regarding fans not wanting untested athletes, I’d wholeheartedly disagree. The funny thing is if you actually talk to the people who follow these events religiously, most of them don’t actually have a problem with enhanced athletes. It’s the casual observers who get up in arms about PED abuse because their only source of information is the media which only portrays a negative viewpoint.

An example: In japan fighters weren’t tested at all in organizations like K1 and DREAM, and the fans know virtually everyone is using something. It didn’t stop fighters from becoming superstars and people paying to watch these events. Alistair Overeem has been busted for abuse of testosterone, people STILL treat him like a superstar. Because he’s an exciting athlete.

[/quote]

Great post. 100% agree. The general public fucking loves superhuman athletes. It would seem the “purists” are largely made up of more casual sports fans to start with.

Either way, the issue I raised before is that this focus on the affect in sports means it will take longer for quality of life to take the lead to “duration at the expense of health”.

105

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Why do tax dollars need to be spent on “convicting” an athlete who used drugs in a foreign competition (a competition which didn’t find him a cheater)? Our tax dollars need to be spent to keep the TDF drug free (or at least keep Americans who compete in it drug free)? If the TDF has a drug problem it is their problem to fix. I don’t think we should be paying for it.

So they “got” Lance, now what? The TDF is not affected one way or another. The USADA hasn’t cleaned up a sport, it just crucified an American who competed in that sport ironically, in the name of cleaning up that sport. Hooray! Now millions of drug free American cyclists are free to compete in the TDF, on a level playing field…against doping athletes from other nations. And we paid for it. So what did the USADA really accomplish?

[/quote]
Actually, other countries test their riders too (contrary to popular belief around here, the USA isn’t unique in this regard). The USADA is merely doing their part to clean up their country’s riders. American riders are not, nor will be, any more clean than any others.

Whether the compeition took place in the USA is irrelevant.[/quote]

Of course it’s relevant where the event takes place. US tax payer dollars fund the USADA. Why should our money pay to clean up France’s “mess?” In fact, why should tax dollars fund the cleaning up and enforcement of rules (not laws) within any sport? Sports have their rules so let them regulate themselves. If it’s a question of legality then there already are law enforcement agencies that deal with that. Why should a tax payer funded agency play Big Brother to any sporting event, let alone one that takes place outside of the US?

I just don’t think it’s the govt’s business to investigate athletes for cheating, simply to enforce rules. If the cheating involves breaking the law then it should be treated as a criminal investigation and handled by the agencies which already exist to investigate crimes. [/quote]

Last time I checked, Lance is an American. The TDF (and thus France) tests him during the race, but why would they have a responsibility for an American the other 49 weeks of the year. He didn’t live in France (they have strict doping laws - actual laws, not sport related) but rather in Spain (very lax doping laws which played into his stratgy).

The sport of cycling is international, Lance competed in several countries every year including the USA. Since cycling is associated with WADA, jurisdiction for Americans goes to the USADA. Your argument is analogous to saying the USADA shouldn’t have tested its track and field athletes because the olympics were in London.[/quote]
Read my post carefully. I didn’t say don’t test, I said tax payers shouldn’t be paying for it. Why is it the govt’s job to enforce a sport’s rules? If a law is being broken then handle it as a criminal case with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. If it’s about rules within a sport then let the sport deal with it with its own money. [/quote]
Government spending and its involvement in sport is a bit off topic and outside the scope of this thread don’t you think?

106

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Ok then if you accept humanity has made a great deal of advancements in health and what not with the help of drugs/chemicals, why the disparagement towards PED use in sports?

Athletics is the pursuit of advancement in human performance, if PED use never came about sprinters would still probably be struggling to break the 10 second barrier in the 100m dash. Why can it not be acknowledged that maybe, PED use IS the next step in human performance?[/quote]
Maybe it is. But currently it is cheating. If you wish to have PEDs in sports that currently ban them, then the morally correct process is to get the rules changed, then start using them. Not the other way around.

107

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Why do tax dollars need to be spent on “convicting” an athlete who used drugs in a foreign competition (a competition which didn’t find him a cheater)? Our tax dollars need to be spent to keep the TDF drug free (or at least keep Americans who compete in it drug free)? If the TDF has a drug problem it is their problem to fix. I don’t think we should be paying for it.

So they “got” Lance, now what? The TDF is not affected one way or another. The USADA hasn’t cleaned up a sport, it just crucified an American who competed in that sport ironically, in the name of cleaning up that sport. Hooray! Now millions of drug free American cyclists are free to compete in the TDF, on a level playing field…against doping athletes from other nations. And we paid for it. So what did the USADA really accomplish?

[/quote]
Actually, other countries test their riders too (contrary to popular belief around here, the USA isn’t unique in this regard). The USADA is merely doing their part to clean up their country’s riders. American riders are not, nor will be, any more clean than any others.

Whether the compeition took place in the USA is irrelevant.[/quote]

Of course it’s relevant where the event takes place. US tax payer dollars fund the USADA. Why should our money pay to clean up France’s “mess?” In fact, why should tax dollars fund the cleaning up and enforcement of rules (not laws) within any sport? Sports have their rules so let them regulate themselves. If it’s a question of legality then there already are law enforcement agencies that deal with that. Why should a tax payer funded agency play Big Brother to any sporting event, let alone one that takes place outside of the US?

I just don’t think it’s the govt’s business to investigate athletes for cheating, simply to enforce rules. If the cheating involves breaking the law then it should be treated as a criminal investigation and handled by the agencies which already exist to investigate crimes. [/quote]

Last time I checked, Lance is an American. The TDF (and thus France) tests him during the race, but why would they have a responsibility for an American the other 49 weeks of the year. He didn’t live in France (they have strict doping laws - actual laws, not sport related) but rather in Spain (very lax doping laws which played into his stratgy).

The sport of cycling is international, Lance competed in several countries every year including the USA. Since cycling is associated with WADA, jurisdiction for Americans goes to the USADA. Your argument is analogous to saying the USADA shouldn’t have tested its track and field athletes because the olympics were in London.[/quote]
Read my post carefully. I didn’t say don’t test, I said tax payers shouldn’t be paying for it. Why is it the govt’s job to enforce a sport’s rules? If a law is being broken then handle it as a criminal case with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. If it’s about rules within a sport then let the sport deal with it with its own money. [/quote]
Government spending and its involvement in sport is a bit off topic and outside the scope of this thread don’t you think?[/quote]
No. If we are, and we are, talking about how serious the issue of PEDs in sports is then the actions we take to deal with it are relevant. Is what Lance did or didn’t do so serious that we need the govt to step in? Is the “purity” of sport that important?

IMO, PED use is something that involves everyone from athlete to trainer, to managers and team owners, to officials and administrators, to sponsors and manufacturers. They are all in on it and all profit from it however, it’s always the athlete who is the villain and ends up taking the fall. How much money did the TdF make off Lance and other (maybe all) riders who were using? How much money did the cycling world make off of his popularity? Everyone knows what is going on and no one really cares as long as it the axe falls on the athlete. If an MLB team had to give back a WS title or any of the money it from the playoffs through the championship title if an athlete tested positive then you would see real change happen. The teams would regulate themselves more seriously.

108

I hope when he goes on with Oprah he does some trolling and just loses it lol

109

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Why do tax dollars need to be spent on “convicting” an athlete who used drugs in a foreign competition (a competition which didn’t find him a cheater)? Our tax dollars need to be spent to keep the TDF drug free (or at least keep Americans who compete in it drug free)? If the TDF has a drug problem it is their problem to fix. I don’t think we should be paying for it.

So they “got” Lance, now what? The TDF is not affected one way or another. The USADA hasn’t cleaned up a sport, it just crucified an American who competed in that sport ironically, in the name of cleaning up that sport. Hooray! Now millions of drug free American cyclists are free to compete in the TDF, on a level playing field…against doping athletes from other nations. And we paid for it. So what did the USADA really accomplish?

[/quote]
Actually, other countries test their riders too (contrary to popular belief around here, the USA isn’t unique in this regard). The USADA is merely doing their part to clean up their country’s riders. American riders are not, nor will be, any more clean than any others.

Whether the compeition took place in the USA is irrelevant.[/quote]

Of course it’s relevant where the event takes place. US tax payer dollars fund the USADA. Why should our money pay to clean up France’s “mess?” In fact, why should tax dollars fund the cleaning up and enforcement of rules (not laws) within any sport? Sports have their rules so let them regulate themselves. If it’s a question of legality then there already are law enforcement agencies that deal with that. Why should a tax payer funded agency play Big Brother to any sporting event, let alone one that takes place outside of the US?

I just don’t think it’s the govt’s business to investigate athletes for cheating, simply to enforce rules. If the cheating involves breaking the law then it should be treated as a criminal investigation and handled by the agencies which already exist to investigate crimes. [/quote]

Last time I checked, Lance is an American. The TDF (and thus France) tests him during the race, but why would they have a responsibility for an American the other 49 weeks of the year. He didn’t live in France (they have strict doping laws - actual laws, not sport related) but rather in Spain (very lax doping laws which played into his stratgy).

The sport of cycling is international, Lance competed in several countries every year including the USA. Since cycling is associated with WADA, jurisdiction for Americans goes to the USADA. Your argument is analogous to saying the USADA shouldn’t have tested its track and field athletes because the olympics were in London.[/quote]
Read my post carefully. I didn’t say don’t test, I said tax payers shouldn’t be paying for it. Why is it the govt’s job to enforce a sport’s rules? If a law is being broken then handle it as a criminal case with the appropriate law enforcement agencies. If it’s about rules within a sport then let the sport deal with it with its own money. [/quote]
Government spending and its involvement in sport is a bit off topic and outside the scope of this thread don’t you think?[/quote]
No. If we are, and we are, talking about how serious the issue of PEDs in sports is then the actions we take to deal with it are relevant. Is what Lance did or didn’t do so serious that we need the govt to step in? Is the “purity” of sport that important?

IMO, PED use is something that involves everyone from athlete to trainer, to managers and team owners, to officials and administrators, to sponsors and manufacturers. They are all in on it and all profit from it however, it’s always the athlete who is the villain and ends up taking the fall. How much money did the TdF make off Lance and other (maybe all) riders who were using? How much money did the cycling world make off of his popularity? Everyone knows what is going on and no one really cares as long as it the axe falls on the athlete. If an MLB team had to give back a WS title or any of the money it from the playoffs through the championship title if an athlete tested positive then you would see real change happen. The teams would regulate themselves more seriously. [/quote]

Uh, we’re talking about Lance. And no, he wasn’t the only one to take a fall. His team director and team doctor both have lifetime bans.

As for MLB, they have their own rules, but many teams do have to give back titles if an athlete gets caught breaking the rules.

110

lets see, 500 tests, all passed, asked 500 times if he took drugs, said no. now this today…lol! the life of a cyclist…

111

like i told all you lance lovers that no nothing at all about cycling… this clown cheated his whole career…as did every pro cyclist… as a former d3 pro, racing in the hardest place to race, belgium, the d3 guys were dopped to the gills … seen it for years… gets worse the higher up the rank you go. cant believe you clowns believed lance never took drugs to better himself… but he passed all the tests!!! lol!!! wake up white people!!

112

[quote]spk wrote:
like i told all you lance lovers that no nothing at all about cycling… this clown cheated his whole career…as did every pro cyclist… as a former d3 pro, racing in the hardest place to race, belgium, the d3 guys were dopped to the gills … seen it for years… gets worse the higher up the rank you go. cant believe you clowns believed lance never took drugs to better himself… but he passed all the tests!!! lol!!! wake up white people!![/quote]

Uh and like we told you before when you started whinging: we know he cheated. We know everyone is pretty much on something.

It’s already been acknowledged at least 40 times in this thread if you had bothered to read it instead of looking for an opportunity to prop up your soap box.

113

[quote]spk wrote:
like i told all you lance lovers that no nothing at all about cycling… this clown cheated his whole career…as did every pro cyclist… as a former d3 pro, racing in the hardest place to race, belgium, the d3 guys were dopped to the gills … seen it for years… gets worse the higher up the rank you go. cant believe you clowns believed lance never took drugs to better himself… but he passed all the tests!!! lol!!! wake up white people!![/quote]

Really? I don’t think you’ve said ANY of this once or a million times, before…

114

If they really wanted to see if he had been doping they should have just checked his nut.

115

I really hope that he writes a book and details everything he did throughout his career. When he started, what he used, how much he used, how he got around all the tests.

That would be a fascinating book and would sell MILLIONS of copies. I would live to read it.

116

This scumbag just needs to go away. Between the lies, cheating, and they way he went after people for telling the truth it’s truly next level scumbag. It’s amazing people still care about this asshole, and cycling; as if cycling is a sport, crossfit thinks cycling is a lame excuse for a sport.

117

I saw something online that said and i quote:

'in the 2005 tour de france the highest placed competitor who has never been associated with doping finished in 23rd place…

118

[quote]Aggv wrote:
as if cycling is a sport, crossfit thinks cycling is a lame excuse for a sport. [/quote]

Have you ever ridden a bike?

tweet

119

Lance is a dirtbag, not because he used steroids but because of how harshly he attacked anyone who threatened to reveal the truth. Also he hid behind cancer and used it as a way to hide the fact that he did steroids. I know in one interview he said something along the lines of how he had come back from a death sentence (cancer) and why would he even dream of using steroids after given a second chance like that… bullshit.

And the whole steroid debate… I shouldn’t stir up this shit storm anymore but its plain and simple cheating. When it comes down to it its a test of character. Yeah most professional athletes can get away with PED’s, just like you can get away with a lot of things in life. But it takes self discipline and morale to stay away from taking shortcuts. Now before you all jump me, let me make this clear. I don’t have a personal issue with those who take steroids, Its their body and they choose what goes into it. Also I am not ignorant like the majority of the population who believes that just cause you take steroids means you dont need hard work or talent. I take an issue when they choose to compete in events that these substances aren’t allowed in. THen you are a cheat, you know full well going into the event that you aren’t allowed to use the PED’s, so if you get caught man up and take responsibility. Its also plain and simple to realize that for an athletic event to be fair, the rules need to be fair. So basically everyone should take PED’s or nobody should, I think the answer to that is quite simple. It’s the only way to account for things. And I can see where die hard fans can take great issue with PED’s. It tarnishes stats. Also yes some guys may have been the best even without the steroids, but they were dumb enough to push even further and get caught. Meaning they should be penalized for their selfishness and stupidity

120

Lance is a dirtbag, not because he used steroids but because of how harshly he attacked anyone who threatened to reveal the truth. Also he hid behind cancer and used it as a way to hide the fact that he did steroids. I know in one interview he said something along the lines of how he had come back from a death sentence (cancer) and why would he even dream of using steroids after given a second chance like that… bullshit.

And the whole steroid debate… I shouldn’t stir up this shit storm anymore but its plain and simple cheating. When it comes down to it its a test of character. Yeah most professional athletes can get away with PED’s, just like you can get away with a lot of things in life. But it takes self discipline and morale to stay away from taking shortcuts. Now before you all jump me, let me make this clear. I don’t have a personal issue with those who take steroids, Its their body and they choose what goes into it. Also I am not ignorant like the majority of the population who believes that just cause you take steroids means you dont need hard work or talent. I take an issue when they choose to compete in events that these substances aren’t allowed in. THen you are a cheat, you know full well going into the event that you aren’t allowed to use the PED’s, so if you get caught man up and take responsibility. Its also plain and simple to realize that for an athletic event to be fair, the rules need to be fair. So basically everyone should take PED’s or nobody should, I think the answer to that is quite simple. It’s the only way to account for things. And I can see where die hard fans can take great issue with PED’s. It tarnishes stats. Also yes some guys may have been the best even without the steroids, but they were dumb enough to push even further and get caught. Meaning they should be penalized for their selfishness and stupidity