Lance Armstrong Watch

[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
fingolfin wrote:

It should be known he isn’t the best cyclist ever. There were at least 2 better. Bernard Hinault and Eddy Merckx. They both won every kind of race and raced almost every weekend. Eddy Merckx himself is from a different planet then other cyclists (including Lance) Everybody was always riding for 2nd when he was in a race.

I’ll give you Merckx as the G.O.A.T.

But Lance would crush Hinault - Hinault (aka the “Badger”) was a mean SOB. He totally fucked LeMond out of the title in the '85 Tour.

You could make a very strong case that Indurain would have crushed Hinault as well.

If I had a time machine I would have paid money to see Lance go toe-to-toe with Indurain up L’Alpe d’ Huez. Do it like Madden - 1993 Indurain v. 2002 Lance - who wins?

I think it would be very, very close.

The cool thing is that Merckx and Lance are really tight in real life.

[/quote]

You could be right about Lance or Indurain being better then Hinault. While nobody I think would ever question Merckx as being best ever. After him there is definately debate about who’s 2nd. I put Hinault above lance because the cycling Talking heads like Paul Sherman do. I think they give him the nod because he raced year round.

[quote]zedhed wrote:
Mufasa,
good thread and thanks for posting the results.
the rest of just rambeling.
ya know those of you out there judging the man, he, just like the rest of us probably wasnt always the nicest guy in the world. do ya think some of that could have been just the aggressiveness that an individual or personality such as that requires to be in that position?
look at the kennedys, the rockefellers, etc. it appears that those that have that kind of drive probably tend to be a little more abrasive then the norm of society.
who are any of us to make any kind of comment or judgement about lance or anyone else for that matter. if you havent walked a mile in their shoes…you know the rest.
at any rate lance or merkx or a lot of other superstar types (the real ones)could probably be a lot worse and get away with it. im not saying that he is perfect because he is a winning american bike jock, but that he like all of us is just a person doing what he does and that he is in the spotlight. there are a lot of others that are a lot worse and most of main stream society could care less. regardless of whatever else he is or does. he is truely one of the great cyclists of all time.

[/quote]
There definately seems to be a tendancy for the most driven superstars not to be the nicest guys. Though I don’t think it’s a requirement.

It may be unfair for somebody like me to say he’s not a nice guy but I’ve been a Lance follower for years and I idolize him. But it’s not for his personality. Eventually after years of hero research you see/hear/read enough to think “gee he’s not very nice”. Should i not add that opinion in a thread talking about him? Maybe. Maybe not. I still idolize the guy and agonize over whether he’ll win or not. It was the same with MJ. I don’t think he was very nice. I idolized him too.

I’m not into hero worship but I compete in those 2 sports so that makes me very, very impressed with them. Especially with Lance. His story is amazing. Read “It’s not about the bike” if you haven’t yet.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
fingolfin wrote:
I agree with the last post. While Lance is not a nice guy, what he has done is simply incredible. I have no quams with him getting a 7th Tour victory. He is retiring anyway so anybody who hates domination only has to wait 1 year. He changed the way people train.

Could you explain how he “Changed the way people train?”

[/quote]

I was thinking mainly of cycling but it has had carry over to other sports. He’s changed the way people trained because riders saw how he prepares for the Tour de France.

  • Scientific and over-the-top Anal attention to every possible aspect of training (weight, nutrition, bike)

  • trained way harder then everybody else had been up to that point. (Still trains harder then everybody else)

  • riding over stages again and again to memorize them, know exactly what effort is required, best places to attack, danger zones, etc

Countless riders changed their training to emulate him. Many people here in the states changed their training, changed their cadence to match his high speed cadence (I was never able to do that, didn’t have the patience to switch over, I’m quite the gear masher)

Talking Heads say the way cyclists train for the tour de france is different now because of him

[quote]fingolfin wrote:
ZEB wrote:
fingolfin wrote:

Countless riders changed their training to emulate him. Many people here in the states changed their training, changed their cadence to match his high speed cadence (I was never able to do that, didn’t have the patience to switch over, I’m quite the gear masher)

Talking Heads say the way cyclists train for the tour de france is different now because of him[/quote]

that’s true and and a simple yet fundemental change that nonone until armstrong had taken advantage of. the cancer played into this change .pre cancer lance was more bulky and muscular and suited toward winning day races because of his power but not stage races and certainly not the tour. by re-training himself to adapt his power to the upper rpm ranges, especially while climbing, he has absolutely maximized his potential in both worlds -power and endurance. everyone is now following suit. difficult for current pros to however cause it takes time …like a year and there’s just not enough money in cyling for them to afford the switch . even ullrich tried to go higher cadence because of lances success but couldn’t make it happen.

[quote]fingolfin wrote:
ZEB wrote:
fingolfin wrote:
I agree with the last post. While Lance is not a nice guy, what he has done is simply incredible. I have no quams with him getting a 7th Tour victory. He is retiring anyway so anybody who hates domination only has to wait 1 year. He changed the way people train.

Could you explain how he “Changed the way people train?”

I was thinking mainly of cycling but it has had carry over to other sports. He’s changed the way people trained because riders saw how he prepares for the Tour de France.

  • Scientific and over-the-top Anal attention to every possible aspect of training (weight, nutrition, bike)

  • trained way harder then everybody else had been up to that point. (Still trains harder then everybody else)

  • riding over stages again and again to memorize them, know exactly what effort is required, best places to attack, danger zones, etc

Countless riders changed their training to emulate him. Many people here in the states changed their training, changed their cadence to match his high speed cadence (I was never able to do that, didn’t have the patience to switch over, I’m quite the gear masher)

Talking Heads say the way cyclists train for the tour de france is different now because of him[/quote]

I see, thanks very much for the response!

[quote]ZEB wrote:
fingolfin wrote:
ZEB wrote:
fingolfin wrote:
I agree with the last post. While Lance is not a nice guy, what he has done is simply incredible. I have no quams with him getting a 7th Tour victory. He is retiring anyway so anybody who hates domination only has to wait 1 year. He changed the way people train.

Could you explain how he “Changed the way people train?”

I was thinking mainly of cycling but it has had carry over to other sports. He’s changed the way people trained because riders saw how he prepares for the Tour de France.

  • Scientific and over-the-top Anal attention to every possible aspect of training (weight, nutrition, bike)

  • trained way harder then everybody else had been up to that point. (Still trains harder then everybody else)

  • riding over stages again and again to memorize them, know exactly what effort is required, best places to attack, danger zones, etc

Countless riders changed their training to emulate him. Many people here in the states changed their training, changed their cadence to match his high speed cadence (I was never able to do that, didn’t have the patience to switch over, I’m quite the gear masher)

Talking Heads say the way cyclists train for the tour de france is different now because of him

I see, thanks very much for the response!

[/quote]

you know what else …armstrong is the first cyclist in history to specialize on one race -the tdf. he’s taken alot of criticism for it which i think is fair. and seems he does too and lives with it. doing the tour is what he wants and he’s found a way to carve it out for himself . others are trying to follow. interesting both hinault and merckx say of course they would have only raced the tour if that were possible, if the money were there, in their day.

as far as this tour goes there’s still a lot to happen. chris carmichael(lances coach) was saying today that lance blew off a month of base training last october and really didn’t start regimenting till january. (didn’t announce he’d ride the tdf 'til feb and i think discovery really squeezed him into it). anyway when you blow off foundation work like that it will catch up with you in the eleventh hour of the tdf ! missing that training plus a little old age could be the right combo for someone to step up and make some real action ! vino ? ullrich ? basso ?

I would be curious to know what Lance takes, supplement wise…

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
I would be curious to know what Lance takes, supplement wise…[/quote]

That’s a very good question!

[quote]trailrash wrote:
OARSMAN wrote:
The only bad thing I can think of coming out of the whole Lance Armstrong story is how the first American to win the TDF, Greg LeMond (back in '86,'89,'90) has been forgotten by all but the most hardcore cycling fans.

His comeback from the brink of death (he got shot in the gut in 1987 and did not race again until the '89 season) to win the Tour de France in 1989 by EIGHT SECONDS in the final day

background:

(he was down 50 seconds at the start of the last stage - which was a time trial into Paris - and was down to Frenchie Laurent Fignon, no slouch in the time trials and winner of the TDF in '83 and '84) -

back to paragraph:

following an inhuman time trial effort (where he averaged close to 35 mph ON HIS OWN, WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF A TEAM TO PULL YOU ALONG) is right up there in my book with Lance’s string of victories as one of the ballsiest performances in sport.

The other thing that sucks about Lance’s retirement is that he is not going to get to tackle the hour record. I think he would have crushed it.

One more thing: the only thing that is going to stop Lance is age. He could win the next two TDF’s after this one if he really felt like it. I personally think he’s bored with cycling. What else is there for him to do? Try to do the Grand Slam like Merckx? ( Vuelta, Giro, TDF, Worlds) Seriously, there is no one out there that can give him a run for his money. Ulrich is done, and the Spaniards since Indurain and Olano are one-trick (climbing) ponies.

lates,
-max

p.s. This Tour is already over. Lance may let the yellow go just to take the strain off his boys and keep them fresh for the mountains. Then he’ll lay the hammer down as always.

One hell of a time trial indeed. However if he is forgotten I do not care. He is afraid of being forgotten as well which is why he has talked shit about Armstrong for quite some time now.

“The problem with Lance is that you’re either a liar or you’re out to destroy cycling,” said LeMond who won in 1986, 1989 and 1990.

“Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don’t know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence”

Greg Lemond

[/quote]

Do you know what Lemond is talking about as “lances innocence”? Previously stated, hes the most tested athlete in the world, in any sport and any federation. It seems to me that Lemond is upset that Lance has surpassed him in tour wins and is just being sore about it.

[quote]UB07 wrote:
my buddy raced him in some minor race years ago. he said he beat lance but that the race didnt count for much and he probably wasnt going to kill himself trying to beat my friend. after the race he wanted to shake lance’s hand and say good race but he got the cold shoulder and a “fuck off” attitude.

he is seen as a stand up guy, and he may infact be one, but this saint-like immage is good for business and thats about it. subaru doesnt want an asshole in its ads. [/quote]

In one of his books, I think it was “its not about the bike” he said something like “I was a kid with about 4 chips on his shoulder” so I wouldnt put it past him to be like that. Then again that was when he was a kid, pre cancer, pre growing up.

As of now he does alot with cancer (obviously, with those yellow bands) but more than just raising money, he visits cancer patients in hospitals, has the ride for the roses in texas every year where he makes an appearance and rides with everyday people like me and you.

[quote]swivel wrote:
as far as this tour goes there’s still a lot to happen. chris carmichael(lances coach) was saying today that lance blew off a month of base training last october and really didn’t start regimenting till january. (didn’t announce he’d ride the tdf 'til feb and i think discovery really squeezed him into it). anyway when you blow off foundation work like that it will catch up with you in the eleventh hour of the tdf ! missing that training plus a little old age could be the right combo for someone to step up and make some real action ! vino ? ullrich ? basso ? [/quote]

I think this is just more b.s. “mindfucking” from Team Lance. They pulled this off before in one of the previous Tours when Lance got “sick” the month before the TDF in one of the tune-up stage races.

Lance is as obsessive-compulsive as you can get when it comes to his Tour prep.

Indurain was also accused of only truly racing/training for the Tour. the same thing. Sure they race other races, but their training was set up to peak at the tour, and didn’t waste too effort on other races.

If I remember, Armstrong’s first marriage ended while he was going through Chemo.

His second marriage was on the rocks for both his 4th and 5th tour. Nothing to do with cheating (at least neither admit it). They got back together right before his 5th tour, I thought he was going to quit then (I thought maybe he struck a deal with her to quit) but then they broke up after.

Many top athletes have this same problem. Top executives of companies have the same problem. You can’t be 100% devoted to something, and also be 100% devoted to your family. (It is why in the Bible Paul wrote about how if you wanted to go be a preacher and serve your God all the time, it was better not to be married. Many people misinterpret this quote, but all Paul meant was, you can’t go running off on your family to do something, so if you know you’re going to go running off, don’t get married in the first place.)

Other crazy things I believe:

That Armstrong does not dope.

He is “the most tested athlete in sports” (esp. since the French sports authorities hated him so much for so long) even enduring 4 surprise tests this past year. No one can fool everyone for 7 years and also fool all the surprise testing. But after reading Carmichael’s book, hell it changed the way I do my runs even.

I would feel very let down if it came out he really was on the juice.

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
This thread makes me proud.

I particularly enjoy his cameo in Dodgeball

And his old SportsCenter commercial

Any hardcore TDF fans remember his fake-out during a hill climb a few years back??[/quote]

How about his commercial with the “American Chopper” guys on TLC- funny shit…

[quote]chrisb71 wrote:
Indurain was also accused of only truly racing/training for the Tour. the same thing. Sure they race other races, but their training was set up to peak at the tour, and didn’t waste too effort on other races.
[/quote]

mmm not really. indurain won the giro d’italia and the tdf in the same year -TWICE. lance has never even raced the giro because it takes too much outta you so close to the tdf.

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Do you know what Lemond is talking about as “lances innocence”? It seems to me that Lemond is upset that Lance has surpassed him in tour wins and is just being sore about it.[/quote]

yeah lemond is questioning lance for his relationship w/ dr. michelle ferrari who’s kinda like the vic conte of the euro cycling world. but unlike conte ferrari knows a frickn ton about human performance beyond legal and illegal drugs which is why i figure lance was using him. he knows what everyone is on and how to strategize. check out his site its fascinating. anyway lemond figures where there’s smoke there’s fire plus he’s saying hey my life’s achievement has been eclipsed. big time.

Stage 7 Report

4 hours ago

KARLSRUHE, Germany - They tire the legs and burn the lungs, but the Tour de France’s punishing climbs can’t come soon enough for Lance Armstrong. After an unnerving first week of fast racing, where crashes are a constant risk, Armstrong is looking to the hills and mountains of eastern France to start winnowing out the field of 185 riders left in the three-week race.

The six-time champion remained the overall leader after finishing a safe 53rd Friday in the pack behind Australia’s Robbie McEwen, who won the seventh stage.

Saturday’s eighth stage brings the hardest climb so far, the 3,736-foot Col de la Schlucht. It is not as hard as the monstrous ascents to follow in the Alps and Pyrenees, riders who are carrying injuries, who are fatigued and out of form - or who don’t have Armstrong’s climbing talents - could fall behind.

Mufasa

trailrash wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Mufasa:

My heart is with Lance, but there are plenty gunning for him this time around.

I would like to see him grab his 7th consecutive win, and I think he has a good chance. I plan to follow along.

Thanks for starting the thread.

Zeb

You are correct in this statement but every year since he won his first tour he has had people gunning for him like crazy. This year is no different. I have heard this year people are going after him because they want to beat him before he retires: last year their motivation was because no one wanted to him beat Indurain’s record the year prior it was for other reasons.

kilo sprinter wrote:
This is standard procedure for the general classification contenders. The race is not won on the flat stages. Lance would be insane to try to put time on his rivals on such a stage, which would be nearly impossible anyways. You will learn how the racing tactics work when you watch more of the racing. Indeed it is not easy to understand how everything works if you are new to watching the sport.

Exactly. Wasnt it in 2001 that some of the sprinters had a 26 minute lead going into the mountain stages and ended up losing every bit plus some of that lead because Lance just blew it up in the mountains

KiloSprinter wrote:
Another funny moment was when Ullrich went off the road on a mtn descent, while following Armstrong. You see him shoot off the road, down the slope, and a bike fly up in the air. I never laughed so hard watching OLN.

I thought it was funny looking after I found out he wasn’t hurt. Strangely I am a fan of Armstrong and Ulrich However I always for Armstrong to win the tour. What I thought was cool was that Lance actually held up and waited for Ulrich to see if he was alright and to let him get caught up and going again.

You know, I heard that the reason Lance held up for him was because earlier, Ulrich had held up while Lance took a non-scheduled bio-break.

I don’t know if it’s true, I got it second hand. I think that was last year, wasn’t it?

RB

Innovative diet keeps Armstrong lean and powerful

Nature plays a cruel joke on professional cyclists. Though they spend up to 30 hours a week on their bikes, they still have to watch their weight to be successful at the Tour de France. After developing new nutrition techniques, Lance Armstrong and I have been able to optimize his race weight without sacrificing performance.

The Stakes: Two pounds can mean the difference between raising your arms in victory and losing 30 seconds on a mountain summit finish. When you’re pedaling up a mountain pass, you’re propelling your bicycle upward, against gravity, as well as forward. Since your legs have a finite amount of power, the amount of weight they have to push uphill makes a big difference.

In cycling, we use a measure called power-to-weight-ratio to compare the climbing strength of one rider against another. Lance’s chief rival, Jan Ullrich, can generate more power, in watts, than Lance can because he is significantly bigger than Lance. However, when you divide their sustainable power outputs by their respective weights, you see that Lance can produce more power, per pound of body weight, than Ullrich can.

To put this in perspective, consider Lance a new Subaru WRX STI and Ullrich an Audi A8. The Audi has more horsepower (335), but that horsepower has to pull a bigger mass (4,300 pounds). The Subaru has a little less horsepower (300), but since it has to move less weight (3,300 pounds), it’s much more nimble and can accelerate like a bullet.

The Problem: A cyclist’s life revolves around food, and he is always hungry. It takes a lot of calories to supply the energy needed for training rides that sometimes last upward of six hours, and no one blames him for wanting to put his feet up with a massive bowl of pasta once he’s done. Yet, at the top level of the sport, all that training could be for naught if you get to the race 5 pounds heavier than your competition.

To make positive adaptations to training, your body needs a slight surplus of energy. To lose weight, you need a slight energy deficit. Trying to lose significant amounts of weight while training hard can do more harm than good because it robs the body of its ability to recover, which in turn reduces the positive impact of workouts.

We have seen examples of this from Jan Ullrich. Earlier in his career, he would gain more than 20 pounds during the winter, slim down slightly in the spring, then lose the final dozen pounds within a month before the start of the Tour de France. The problem, however, was his power output suffered from the combination of caloric restriction and increased training. He arrived at the Tour de France lean and mean, but without the power to challenge Lance in the mountains.

The Plan: No professional cyclists, not even Lance, stay at their Tour de France weight all year. They aim to be as light and as powerful as possible for three weeks in July, and after that they move back up to a healthier and more sustainable weight. What Lance and I wanted to avoid, however, was the big weight fluctuation (18-26 pounds) typical of pro cyclists. I wanted his training efforts to improve his power output and make his aerobic engine stronger. Using training hours to merely burn calories and lose weight is a waste of valuable time.

I looked at the ways Lance’s training changed during the year, and then designed a nutrition program that matched the calorie, nutrient, and training demands of each segment of the year. The results were dramatic. Between 2002 and 2005, his weight has fluctuated only about 9 pounds up and down, yet he has not had to go to the extremes of weighing his food or depriving himself of meals or snacks. We have not had to spend time thinking about weight loss, either. That has provided more time to concentrate on performance.

The plan is relatively simple, and works for any active individual. During the fall and winter, the intensity and weekly duration of Lance’s training are relatively low. He is exercising, but it’s mostly moderate-intensity aerobic conditioning. To fuel this level of training, he doesn’t need as many calories as he does at the height of the racing season.

Not only does he consume less food during this period, he also alters the nutrient balance. During the height of the season, more than 70 percent of his calories may come from carbohydrates because he needs the fast-burning fuel to power his aerobic and anaerobic energy systems. During the fall and winter, we increase the percentage of protein in his nutrition program and reduce the carbohydrate contribution to 60 percent to 65 percent. This may seem minor, but when it’s combined with the overall caloric reduction, the two make a big difference in calories and body weight.

As his training intensity and volume increase through the spring, we increase his caloric intake and the percentage of calories coming from carbohydrate. The aerobic engine can burn a mixture of carbohydrate, protein, and fat, but the anaerobic system that kicks in to contribute additional energy for high-intensity efforts burns only carbohydrate.

My first priority is to make sure Lance has the fuel and nutrients he needs to perform. I look at the demands of his training and lifestyle and use that information to design his nutrition program. It’s an idea with a lot of potential. You’d be shocked to discover how much more you can accomplish when you don’t have to spend time thinking about body weight.

Stage 8 Report

20 minutes ago

GERARDMER, France - Lance Armstrong kept his overall lead in the Tour de France on Saturday despite what he said was a bad day for his team and fierce challenges in the race’s hardest mountain climb so far.

Dutch rider Pieter Weening of the Rabobank team won the eighth stage in a sprint against Andreas Kloeden, last year’s Tour runner-up.

Armstrong, bidding for a seventh straight title before retirement after the three-week race, finished in 20th place. He and key rivals Jan Ullrich and Alexandre Vinokourov had the same time, riding in behind the two leaders in a pack.

Armstrong remained 1 minute, 2 seconds ahead of Vinokourov, who is third overall. Armstrong is 1:36 ahead of Ullrich. Germany’s Jens Voigt of Team CSC moved up to second place overall, 1:00 behind the Texan.

Mufasa