[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
…
Had the heckler been fat, had it been a woman, had it been some-one of arabic decent he would have dug into that rather than drop “n” bombs all over the place, I believe. Thinking back, I don’t beleive he’s as racist as he is just purely full of rage and doesn’t know how to handle it.
[/quote]
Exactly. Many “creative” types are.
That was awesome but Kaufman deserved a beating.
[quote]GERRY.P.SHARMAN wrote:
malonetd wrote:
GERRY.P.SHARMAN wrote:
And It would be nice if the Black generation ages 15-35 would stop capitalizing on hardships they never experienced themselves to justify their way of life .
How about, when you grow up to be a 15-35 year old Black man/woman, then you describe to us what you did or didn’t experience, ok?
Oh please …quit with the make beleive drama…it’s 2006 ,and the only real thing holding the poor black man back is the poor black man…Not whitey…not racism…not Asians…The blacks that sit around blaming whites ,And society for their have nots are the blacks that are just like the whites that do the same…they are lazy ,And have no ambition or work ethic . Can’t get ahead in life sitting around playing X-box waiting for the 1st …and 15th to roll around drunk off malt liqour ,and expect to be much of anything …[/quote]
Klansman,
Thank you for discrediting yourself, figured it would only be a matter of time.
Every time you try to post something on this site from here on out, you will be overall dismissed and ignored. You’re nothing but inflammatory garbage who doesn’t have a clue, and I for one am glad you finally revealed yourself.
Feel free to move on down the dusty trail,
B.
What the hell does this guy have to be so angry about?
He’s probably easily a multi-millionaire from Seinfeld, he can likely do as he pleases in his daily life without worrying about supporting himself, his family, and friends, he’s well known for doing what he seems to enjoy, and a ton of people adore him. Why the hate and anger? You’d think that with all that under your belt, you’d be pretty mellow about hecklers and most of life’s simple problems.
[quote]BradTGIF wrote:
wires wrote:
I’ve seen black men go crazy on stage about “white people this” and “white people that” and it never made the news.
Because those rants are considered funny, and becuase white people sit there and laugh right along with it.
What Richards did on stage was go for the jugular and attemtp to verbally destroy the heckler. He flipped the fuck out, lost his cool, if you will.
Had the heckler been fat, had it been a woman, had it been some-one of arabic decent he would have dug into that rather than drop “n” bombs all over the place, I believe. Thinking back, I don’t beleive he’s as racist as he is just purely full of rage and doesn’t know how to handle it. You just don’t unleash that kind of hate without major anger management issues. Dude tried to start a fight with Andy Kaufman on live TV once back in the 80’s, so the whole rage thing is at least decades old. By no means, though, does it in any way defend his actions on stage the other night. Dude should hang it up and open up a coffe shop in Idaho and just go the fuck away.
As for the “N” word debate, I’m white, thus I don’t rate saying it, so that’s that. I relate it to me allowing my little brother to call me dipshit as a greeting or in conversation, but let me hear someone else call me a dipshit off the street and we have problems… Only multiply that feeling times infinity and infuse 100’s of years of oppression, sufferage through slavery and unwilling removal from your homeland and compact it into one single word. It can’t be compared to any other situation or cross examined by any other scenario because they are the only race that had to endure generations of oppression strictly due to the color of their skin. So leave the “N” word alone.
B.
[/quote]
Ok if we were sitting in the early 1900’s you would have a point …But it’s 2006 ,and the black community is not subject to anymore opression or racism than any other race including white …Infact I see the younger black generation to be the one to most profusely use the word nigger in daily conversation…And it’s these young blacks that have never seen real racism or opression using the word nigger to greet each other in friendly social greetings . Being that it’s the generation of blacks that really have no clue what real racism ,and opression is they do not really associate the word nigger with anything negative they ever experienced in life themselves …Unlike past generations of blacks that did …think about it do you think blacks fifty-seventy years ago were running around going what up nigga …I think not ,and it’s because the word meant something deeply negative to them .
So I don’t think calling a young black male a nigger is any worse than a young white male being called a cracker . As young black males have not experienced the hardships that would make the word nigger a source of deep rooted pain from personal experience …
[quote]hockechamp14 wrote:
Do black people really get so worked up about people using “nigger?” The thing I don’t understand still is they use it at each other daily, but when someone white usues it it’s “uncalled for”
Yeah, his stand up sucked anyways.[/quote]
Short answer…YES.
Theres a difference between my black friends and i using the n word and a white person calling me a nigger.
The word itself, like all words only has power in its percieved meaning. If i say to my buddy “Yo nigga, whats up?” Do i mean it as a perjorative? No. When a white person calls me a nigger What does he mean? he is tapping into Generations of hatred and bigotry. Is that what he means, probably not but thats what will be percieved.
Having seen the Richards incident, i dont think he meant to be racist. He was doing stand up , he was kinda bombing, and i think he made a wrong turn and didnt know how to get out of it.
But thats just me.
[quote]GERRY.P.SHARMAN wrote:
Ok if we were sitting in the early 1900’s you would have a point …But it’s 2006 ,and the black community is not subject to anymore opression or racism than any other race including white …
[/quote]
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HAHA AH AH AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!
ok.
I’ve been to every major city in the U.S. And sorry to say What I see most blacks dealing with today is self imposed opression …Sure the word nigger is still heard here and there ,But those that say it aren’t usually hard core racists ,as it’s usually said by a person in an argument when they are just reaching for an insult ,but have little racist thought behind it just like when a black person says CRACKER …
So what your telling me is that because a young black may have heard the word nigger a couple times in their life that this is sole reasson they are in jail…on welfare…or lute stores during self induced riots ?
A black man go’s into interview for a job ,and maybe the person doing the interview doesn’t like him partly because he’s black.
And I’m sorry to inform…But people of every race including white have experienced not getting a job at some point in their life do to discrimination not just blacks …Be it the guy doing the interview didn’t like your hair cut or clothes ,Or your size it happens but it’s not every job . You move on ,and go to next interview .
That was bad…really, really bad.
I realized that this guy was a dick when I saw some interviews and saw how seriously he took comedy, HIS comedy, that is.
It looks to me like the whole thing got away from him. He called the guy a N- and I think he meant it. Then he tried to take in some other direction, trying to make it funny or profound. I don’t know. It bombed on both fronts.
He’s done. Two offenses here: Blatant racism; Not funny.
Can’t recover from either.
[quote]emdawgz1 wrote:
…
Having seen the Richards incident, i dont think he meant to be racist. He was doing stand up , he was kinda bombing, and i think he made a wrong turn and didnt know how to get out of it.
But thats just me.[/quote]
Exactly how I see it. I have no idea if he is racist or not. He was trying to shut up a heckler and be edgy. Didn’t work and he ended up exposing his anger and discomfort.
To crucify him over this is silly. To decide not to give him your money is perfectly acceptable.
[quote]emdawgz1 wrote:
hockechamp14 wrote:
Do black people really get so worked up about people using “nigger?” The thing I don’t understand still is they use it at each other daily, but when someone white usues it it’s “uncalled for”
Yeah, his stand up sucked anyways.
Short answer…YES.
Theres a difference between my black friends and i using the n word and a white person calling me a nigger.
The word itself, like all words only has power in its percieved meaning. If i say to my buddy “Yo nigga, whats up?” Do i mean it as a perjorative? No. When a white person calls me a nigger What does he mean? he is tapping into Generations of hatred and bigotry. Is that what he means, probably not but thats what will be percieved.
Having seen the Richards incident, i dont think he meant to be racist. He was doing stand up , he was kinda bombing, and i think he made a wrong turn and didnt know how to get out of it.
But thats just me.[/quote]
I have a lot of black friends. Actually, now that I think about it, MOST of my really old, good friends are black. They can call me a cracker. They do. They can call me whatever they want. I can call them whatever I want. Although, I generally do not call them the word in question here. Thing is this: When you are friends with someone, when you know how they feel about things in their heart, it’s a different thing. You can say whatever you want and your friend knows what you mean. My friends aren’t white or black to me now. They are just my friends. Individuals.
This is bad.
I doubt Richards can ever unring this bell. No onstage comedian wants hecklers to trump him, and in his desperation to make sure he came out on top, he went to a very dark place. Ridiculous.
That said, I don’t know if he is actually ‘racist’ or just got desperate. I suspect he was manic and would have gone below the belt on any heckler who was fat, female, Jewish, or black. But I think a better question is: who cares if he is racist? Any scumbag that would go there - whether he truly meant it or not - deserves the worst scorn we can heap on him.
[quote]GERRY.P.SHARMAN wrote:
I’ve been to every major city in the U.S. And sorry to say What I see most blacks dealing with today is self imposed opression …Sure the word nigger is still heard here and there ,But those that say it aren’t usually hard core racists ,as it’s usually said by a person in an argument when they are just reaching for an insult ,but have little racist thought behind it just like when a black person says CRACKER …
So what your telling me is that because a young black may have heard the word nigger a couple times in their life that this is sole reasson they are in jail…on welfare…or lute stores during self induced riots ?
A black man go’s into interview for a job ,and maybe the person doing the interview doesn’t like him partly because he’s black.
And I’m sorry to inform…But people of every race including white have experienced not getting a job at some point in their life do to discrimination not just blacks …Be it the guy doing the interview didn’t like your hair cut or clothes ,Or your size it happens but it’s not every job . You move on ,and go to next interview .
[/quote]
Dude, just stop talking.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
X-Factor wrote:
I’ve had black friends that I called “my nigga” before, which they did’nt give one shit about because we were tight (mostly an old best friend), as a black man, do you think it is unacceptable for me being white to do this? Or is it fine because there is no racial attatchment to it. Also why can black guys call me white boy and cracker and it’s “ok” to them.
I am often amazed at the disconnection many “non-blacks” seem to have towards issues involving race in this country. I can only imagine this exists because the experience of any racist views expressed towards non-whites is such a rare occurrence that the issue itself seems completely alien.
CULTURE is the basis for how most people treat other people when it comes to close relationships or friendships. I have white friends that I would “dap” instead of shake their hand because, one, they understand what it means, and two, they are from a similar background and wouldn’t react like some others as if they wouldn’t know how to respond to anything other than a formal handshake.
What about someone of another race using it to describe someone in a joke?
Wouldn’t that depend on the joke and the individual? If it were actually funny and not blatantly offensive, there would be no problem. Obviously, someone who is not black would have a larger hurdle to jump in terms of using a word that has such a history behind it. Again, the fact that this needs to be explained at all is what has me shaking my head.
Mine is prolly retarded, I don’t understand the whole racially motivated thing that well so i’m prolly just ignorant, just wanted your views.
Honestly, what is there to not understand?[/quote]
Well it’s not so much a lack of understanding but rather a hope to have greater understanding. Me being a white immigrant to north american probably has different views on the subject than a black “native” (i’m assuming) american. You can’t expect me to understand what I have’nt experienced and I do not think it is appropriate to pretend to understand either. I’ve had this discussion whith numerous people who were non-white that I did and did not now previously. All of which was accepted openly, there was an inital shock that I would discuss such a topic but they were generally open about it. I really think that anybody knows how they “should” react to these things, it is just one of those life challenges that is completely independant from the next person’s.
PS. And that includes whites I’ve been harassed by groups of blacks and indians and tried to be mugged, pulled a knife on. I’m not saying it WAS racially motivated, i’m just saying I was white, in a project where 98% of the people were non-white, and I was not dressed very ganster. All those things made me a target. Luckily when most people hear an irish accent you are granted some kind of immunity. Prolly because you sound kind of islander at first, and for some reasons carribeaners, and jamaicans love the irish. Maybe because we were once slaves to the english also.
[quote]pookie wrote:
I don’t think so. If a racist gets censored or ostracized enough, he might eventually be forced to re-evaluate his views.[/quote]
But is that a path we want to take? Censorship can silence these voices and forceful oppression would probably make them renounce their beliefs, but where do we draw the line? Who judges what are appropriate beliefs? Is tolerance reserved only for the tolerant?
Obviously as an individual you can boycott and protest anything you view wrong, but my problem is the govermental interference. Concepts like hate crime and hate speech scare the fuck out of me. Why do we need a concept like ‘hate crime’ if the crime itself is already covered by the law? Is murder over money somehow more virtuous than murder over race? And hate speech laws conflict with everything a free society is supposed to stand for.
Yes, you are correct on both points. It is unlikely that one can changes another persons views simply by debate. If nothing else, our egos prevent us from admitting that we are wrong. But it can sow the seed of doubt in us and that is where change comes from. If you are considered a pariah by society, it becomes all too easy to retreat to your little world and claim ‘the white man / the jewish elite / the socialists / the capitalists are holding me down because of my beliefs’. In this situation you do not have a need or an opportunity to look at yourself closely. Every slur and dogmatic argument can be ignored.
Zappa said: ‘One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people’s minds.’
You might be right on your arguments, but I am unlikely to admit that right away. Certainly I began to wonder what society would be if racism was not taboo. Would it become more widespread? So the seeds of doubt were planted in my mind. And I might be right and perhaps those seeds were planted in your mind as well. I still hold that free discussion among free minds is the improvement of all mankind.
[quote]GERRY.P.SHARMAN wrote:
I’ve been to every major city in the U.S. And sorry to say What I see most blacks dealing with today is self imposed opression …Sure the word nigger is still heard here and there ,But those that say it aren’t usually hard core racists ,as it’s usually said by a person in an argument when they are just reaching for an insult ,but have little racist thought behind it just like when a black person says CRACKER …
So what your telling me is that because a young black may have heard the word nigger a couple times in their life that this is sole reasson they are in jail…on welfare…or lute stores during self induced riots ?
A black man go’s into interview for a job ,and maybe the person doing the interview doesn’t like him partly because he’s black.
And I’m sorry to inform…But people of every race including white have experienced not getting a job at some point in their life do to discrimination not just blacks …Be it the guy doing the interview didn’t like your hair cut or clothes ,Or your size it happens but it’s not every job . You move on ,and go to next interview .
[/quote]
I don’t think you really understand oppression.
Blacks in America are only a few generations separated from slavery. An “Equal” playing field hasn’t been established long enough to say that today’s black youth can’t feel the downstroke of slavery.
White people as a whole have always had the power and money and therefor their kids have been sent to the best schools and provided with jobs of power. That in turn secured the financial future of their children. Etc, etc for generations.
Jews in America were/are victims of racism but weren’t slaves here. They still had the opportunity of business and were able to provide for their children’s futures.
Sure, there might be a more level playing field for minorities today, but a total flip around from poverty to power isn’t going to happen in one or two generations. The power and money of Anglos goes back hundreds of years to the Old Country. Give it a couple more generations here before you start implying anyone is lazy or is sand bagging.
We are talking whole groups here, not individuals. You really can’t be as naive as you sound.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
To crucify him over this is silly. To decide not to give him your money is perfectly acceptable.[/quote]
I agree.
I’m as against racism as the next non-racist guy, but to act like this guy is the villain of the century for losing his cool for a couple minutes and saying purposely hurtful things is just stupid.
As someone said earlier, if it had been a fat person or a woman he probably would have targeted that trait about them. That doesn’t mean that he has deep-seeded hatred towards fat people or women, that’s just what he knew would be the most insulting word to throw at the person, so that’s what he said in his fit of rage.
It’s not excusable in any right, but give me a break, to say that you can never watch a show again that he’s on because of it?
I found those Ice Cube lyrics listed in this thread somewhat offensive. That doesn’t mean I’m going to freak out and turn off the radio if one of his songs come on in the future.
[quote]PredatorOC wrote:
But is that a path we want to take? Censorship can silence these voices and forceful oppression would probably make them renounce their beliefs, but where do we draw the line? Who judges what are appropriate beliefs? Is tolerance reserved only for the tolerant?[/quote]
I meant censorship more in it’s “voluntary” form; where the public in general will shun a racist performer. I’m not a big fan of government imposed “hate laws.”
Well to clarify, I don’t support any proposed laws that would make Michael Richards illegal; or listening to him a felony.
Hate crimes are often particularly vicious. Not content with killing someone, you’ll also drag his corpse behind your car for good effect, or do other similar sick things to further degrade the victim.
I think most “hate laws” seek to punish the added viciousness of the crime.
A free society also supposes that it’s members show each other mutual respect; when some individual or group use their freedom to denigrate or incite violence against other members, freedom suffers anyway. No solution will protect all parties while granting perfect freedom.
That’s true if you have a group of friends or a community of like minded individuals that support you. If your views are denounced by all, including your friends an family, you might have more incentive to re-evaluate your notions.
I think racism is also largely “taught” to kids from a young age. If we’re to eventually live in a society where that problem is relegated to history, just as serfdom or slavery has been, we can’t tolerate it; especially not from popular public figures who are often role models for young people.
People do change. Personally, I have changed my views on many subjects throughout my life. These changes don’t occur instantly or during the course of one conversation, but rather tend to be gradual.
Indeed.
[quote]GERRY.P.SHARMAN wrote:
Ok if we were sitting in the early 1900’s you would have a point …
[/quote]
Early 1900’s? Cracker please. Open up a history book.