Knife Control

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
221

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

If my 72 year old mom or my 21 year old daughter wanted to return to college I want to know why they should be denied their right to carry their Sig 226 in order to respond to an attack by one of smh’s peers who is brandishing a tactical folder and demanding the removal of their clothes.[/quote]

[b]They don’t have a right to carry their Sig 226 at a college that has decided to ban guns on its campus.

[/quote]

In your opinion. Mine differs. A public university is part of the public square. A free man has certain rights in the public square. Self defense is one of them.

Agreed.

Stop infringing on those which do.
[/quote]

A public university is not “part of the public square” in the sense that you’re advocating.

Tell me, why is it that Pfizer, which is the recipient of public money, is not obligated to allow its employees to carry on its premises? It is the fact that public universities are to a certain degree publicly-funded that makes you believe that they are obligated to respect the Second Amendment, yes? Pfizer, just like the State University of New York at Binghamton, is funded by both private and public capital.

And tell me, where exactly is it written that public universities are “extensions of the state?”

And if they indeed are “extensions of the state,” do students have exactly the same First Amendment rights inside a classroom that they have outside of one?

[b]Can they be punished for speech that is not designed to incite imminent lawless action?

I’ll ask again, for emphasis: can a student be punished for speaking freely in a classroom so long as that speech is not intended to incite imminent lawless action?

They can? They are, all of the time? Wait a minute, I thought that a public university was an extension of the state?[/b]

How about this one: can they not be subjected to what on the outside world would be considered unreasonable searches?

Of course, the answers to these questions are obvious.

222

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

Stop inventing rights that don’t exist.

[/quote]

Stop infringing on those which do.
[/quote]

I don’t intend to.

However, this right that you’re trying to defend happens not to exist at all. So there is something of a problem here.

223

I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever.

There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently.

224

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.

225

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Smh, I never did get your reply to my question about universities restricting religious freedom on campus.

You’re all for that, right?[/quote]

I have no idea when or where this question came. I believe that your posts are delayed, so can you reproduce it here?..[/quote]

Since we’ve established that you, smh, feel the voluntary attendance aspect of a college campus waives one’s Second Amendment rights especially in the case of private institutions we can safely assume that one’s First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh and Eighth Amendment rights can also be usurped, right?

So on a college campus the dean can mandate:

  1. How you may or may not worship
  2. Whether or not you can petition your government
  3. Lose your right of trial by jury and due process, etc.

…and others.

Again, in a private institution some of this MAY be justified. In a public one, no. State universities are extensions of the state government. An infringement on our natural rights by a state university would be an infringement by the state government.

[/quote]

Some of these rights, and some portions of them, are surrendered. Parts of the First and to some degree the Fourth, in particular.

In the end, though–and I suspect you’re going to absolutely hate this–some rights are more circumstantial than others. The Second Amendment is very circumstantial, for obvious reasons. The TSA can stop you from bringing a loaded gun onto an airplane, but if they forced you to praise Allah before boarding, we’d have some serious issues.

226

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

The law presumes college kids are responsible adults, even if they really aren’t, until they prove otherwise. The coke dealers in the dorm room are common criminals and should be dealt with as such and held accountable. The guns in the dorm are not the problem, its the coke dealers, who should be banned from the dorm, not the guns.

That said, I think in a college-dorm setting a college probably does have the right to ban guns in the dorm even if it is a state-run college in the same way it could ban loud stereos or stereos altogether or dogs or pets or booze or romantic overnight guests even if the residents are of legal age, exercising its rights as a landlord.

227

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I never said a word about “receiving federal money.” You created that one, smh.[/quote]

Then what is it about “public” universities?

“Public” is just a word. I read just this morning that three quarters of the State University of New York budget is private–tuition and donations. I believe that the national number is less than half.

If it isn’t the receipt of federal money, then what is it? As far as I know, the only thing that makes a state university a state university is the fact that it’s ostensibly reliant upon government subsidy for a substantial portion of its operating budget–which, as is clear with the SUNY example, is in some cases becoming less clear anyway.

228

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

The law presumes college kids are responsible adults, even if they really aren’t, until they prove otherwise.
[/quote]

Yes, but universities can force students to surrender some of their rights as a precondition of matriculation.

The point here is that while “the law” presumes college kids to be responsible adults, the university is not “the law” and therefore is not bound by the very true claim that you’re making.

229

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I never said a word about “receiving federal money.” You created that one, smh.[/quote]

Then what is it about “public” universities?

“Public” is just a word. I read just this morning that three quarters of the State University of New York budget is private–tuition and donations. I believe that the national number is less than half.

If it isn’t the receipt of federal money, then what is it? As far as I know, the only thing that makes a state university a state university is the fact that it’s ostensibly reliant upon government subsidy for a substantial portion of its operating budget–which, as is clear with the SUNY example, is in some cases becoming less clear anyway.[/quote]

There’s a legal test to determine whether a state university is considered an “alter ego” or “arm of the state” and most of them are and most are entitled to 11th Am. Immunity.

Here’s a clip I pulled off Lexis to illustrate:

“The Eleventh Amendment protects States from suit in federal courts. 3 “It has long been settled that the reference to actions “against one of the United States” encompasses not only actions in which a State is actually named as the defendant, but also certain actions [**3] against state [*379] agents and state instrumentalities.” 4 HN3Under Louisiana law, Nicholls State University is administered by the Board of Trustees for State Colleges and Universities. 5 This court has previously recognized that the Board of Trustees is an arm of the State of Louisiana and thus entitled to Eleventh Amendment immunity from suit. 6 The claims against Nicholls State are thus subject to dismissal under Eleventh Amendment immunity.”

230

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

The law presumes college kids are responsible adults, even if they really aren’t, until they prove otherwise.
[/quote]

Yes, but universities can force students to surrender some of their rights as a precondition of matriculation.

The point here is that while “the law” presumes college kids to be responsible adults, the university is not “the law” and therefore is not bound by the very true claim that you’re making.[/quote]

A state university is an arm of the state, but, again, I would agree that a state can take action as a landlord or employer, for example, that it might not otherwise take against the general public using its rights as a landlord or employer. It is wrong to state that a state university is not a state actor, however.

231

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

The law presumes college kids are responsible adults, even if they really aren’t, until they prove otherwise.
[/quote]

Yes, but universities can force students to surrender some of their rights as a precondition of matriculation.

The point here is that while “the law” presumes college kids to be responsible adults, the university is not “the law” and therefore is not bound by the very true claim that you’re making.[/quote]

A state university is an arm of the state, but, again, I would agree that a state can take action as a landlord or employer, for example, that it might not otherwise take against the general public using its rights as a landlord or employer. It is wrong to state that a state university is not a state actor, however.

[/quote]

Well I’m certainly not going to argue law with what seems to be a lawyer.

However, I believe that my general argument stands–a state university is not obligated to afford its students and employees the same rights that a state government is obligated to afford its citizens. Far from it. And this is not just so with universities, but also with so many institutions. Federal employees may be disallowed from bringing guns in to work, etc.

232

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

The law presumes college kids are responsible adults, even if they really aren’t, until they prove otherwise.
[/quote]

Yes, but universities can force students to surrender some of their rights as a precondition of matriculation.

The point here is that while “the law” presumes college kids to be responsible adults, the university is not “the law” and therefore is not bound by the very true claim that you’re making.[/quote]

A state university is an arm of the state, but, again, I would agree that a state can take action as a landlord or employer, for example, that it might not otherwise take against the general public using its rights as a landlord or employer. It is wrong to state that a state university is not a state actor, however.

[/quote]

Well I’m certainly not going to argue law with what seems to be a lawyer.

However, I believe that my general argument stands–a state university is not obligated to afford its students and employees the same rights that a state government is obligated to afford its citizens. Far from it. And this is not just so with universities, but also with so many institutions. Federal employees may be disallowed from bringing guns in to work, etc.[/quote]

Yes, I’m a lawyer, I didn’t intend to conceal that fact.

I would say that a state actor can exercise powers it has in different roles in different ways that are different from police powers, again, for example, as an employer or landlord. But it is still a state actor. For example, if you are a state employee a state actor as an employer is authorized to a certain extent to curtail your first amendment rights in certain circumstances if it has good reasons to because of the employee-employer relationship. But if the state actor goes too far or doesn’t have good reasons connected to employment, the state can still violate the first amendment. That is just by way of example. In short, it gets a little murky when the state is acting in a non-police-powers role.

233

So I’m looking through Cyanotech Corp. v. U.S. Nutraceuticals LLC, in which the University of Illinois was sued over a patent dispute, and the court found that the university is “‘an arm of the state’ for Eleventh Amendment purposes.” This seems to me to be an important distinction. I do not believe that this can be broadened for purposes of painting a state school as an arm of the state in every purpose.

But, again, I’m no lawyer, so.

Also, I don’t know a damn thing about this kind of stuff, but it seems to me that this immunity thing is a bit of a stretch as applied to state universities, who act more like private enterprise market participants every day.

234

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

The law presumes college kids are responsible adults, even if they really aren’t, until they prove otherwise.
[/quote]

Yes, but universities can force students to surrender some of their rights as a precondition of matriculation.

The point here is that while “the law” presumes college kids to be responsible adults, the university is not “the law” and therefore is not bound by the very true claim that you’re making.[/quote]

A state university is an arm of the state, but, again, I would agree that a state can take action as a landlord or employer, for example, that it might not otherwise take against the general public using its rights as a landlord or employer. It is wrong to state that a state university is not a state actor, however.

[/quote]

Well I’m certainly not going to argue law with what seems to be a lawyer.

However, I believe that my general argument stands–a state university is not obligated to afford its students and employees the same rights that a state government is obligated to afford its citizens. Far from it. And this is not just so with universities, but also with so many institutions. Federal employees may be disallowed from bringing guns in to work, etc.[/quote]

Yes, I’m a lawyer, I didn’t intend to conceal that fact.
[/quote]

When you said LexisNexis, I knew you were either a lawyer or a reporter. You weren’t concealing anything, I was just making a joke about the kind of hubris I’d have to possess in order to argue law with a lawyer.

235

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

I would say that a state actor can exercise powers it has in different roles in different ways that are different from police powers, again, for example, as an employer or landlord. But it is still a state actor. For example, if you are a state employee a state actor as an employer is authorized to a certain extent to curtail your first amendment rights in certain circumstances if it has good reasons to because of the employee-employer relationship. But if the state actor goes too far or doesn’t have good reasons connected to employment, the state can still violate the first amendment. That is just by way of example. In short, it gets a little murky when the state is acting in a non-police-powers role.

[/quote]

Understood. Otherwise, a government employee could say pretty much anything he wanted and never be fired so long as what he said wasn’t intended to incite imminent lawless action.

236

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

There is a big difference from hunting rifles in trucks vs handguns on campus. The main problem I have with college is almost nobody lives alone so even if you trust your roommates (which still can be dumb), do you trust their friends?

237

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I went to Chico State. DBC can vouch for the level of stupidness that goes on there. I went hunting and shooting pistols with plenty of those same stupid kids while I attended college there without incident. One thing I didn’t witness was anyone who brought weapons out when we were loaded and raising hell and I don’t recall any shootings there, ever. There was no gun ban that I can recall (maybe there was, but I sure don’t recall it) and plenty of these same stupid kids carried rifles in their gun racks in their trucks 24-7. My bigger concern with college kids killing people is when they are driving cars while drunk or pouring tequila down their buddy’s throat after they passed out. A number of kids got killed that way. I’m sure there are college kids that are stupid enough to kill each other with guns somewhere, but there are plenty of other ways to do it that happen a lot more frequently. [/quote]

One of my good friends in college was an upstate-NY rural type, and he kept a shotgun in the back of his truck. That didn’t bother me: leaving philosophy and principle aside for a moment, he grew up around guns, he knew exactly how to use them. He’s a gun guy.

The problem for me is when the kids who lived in the dorm room next to his, who sold cocaine and ketamine and got the living shit beaten out of them by some shady townies they routinely tried to fuck over, ask their RA if they’re allowed to buy guns and carry them around and get an encouraging yes.

Not that I think carrying on campuses should be illegal. I just understand that these schools can make their own policies, because the notion that they are extensions of the state is ridiculous for reasons that I’ve documented again and again. And if they don’t want guns in their dorm rooms, then that’s all there is. If you don’t like it, don’t matriculate.[/quote]

There is a big difference from hunting rifles in trucks vs handguns on campus. The main problem I have with college is almost nobody lives alone so even if you trust your roommates (which still can be dumb), do you trust their friends?[/quote]

Another good point: people are mandated to live with strangers.

The list of reasons is long.