Kids in PWI

[MaximusB]

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

Youth have nothing to be responsible for, wait until you have things like mouths to feed other than your own, clothing, and housing.

Blame stuff like poverty, homelessness, hunger, and mediocrity on youthful arrogance, see what your family thinks of you then. Let me know.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this post doesn’t even make sense. What’s your point?[/quote]

No, I would not expect you to understand it, or anyone under the age of 30.

[MaximusB]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Conservatism is equally engrained in youth via religious programming. Brainwashing happens across the political spectrum, it really just depends on who raises you.[/quote]

Partial truth, and when you grow up, get off mommy’s tit, your balls finally descend to their natural resting place, you have the capacity to formulate your own opinion and make your own decisions.

I find it funny that the idea of personal responsibility is foreign to most Liberal thinkers.

[swoleupinya]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

Youth have nothing to be responsible for, wait until you have things like mouths to feed other than your own, clothing, and housing.

Blame stuff like poverty, homelessness, hunger, and mediocrity on youthful arrogance, see what your family thinks of you then. Let me know.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this post doesn’t even make sense. What’s your point?[/quote]

No, I would not expect you to understand it, or anyone under the age of 30. [/quote]

I’m 35, and I have two kids.

Again, what is your point?

[ZEB]

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And most of our colleges are very liberal. [/quote]

This is way over stated and has not held up to analysis, which suggest a slight lean towards liberal ideas. But here is the thing, if you are teaching students to think, actually think and not regurgitate facts, you need to expose them to new ideas. Just because a professor may cover a range of ideas, and some of them are ‘liberal’, does not make the university ‘very liberal’. I think DB answered about student perception well.

I will say that might students lately have been complaining about how much they hear about feminist theory.[/quote]

Here’s one survey that proves you wrong:

http://chronicle.com/article/College-Makes-Students-More/64040

College Makes Students More Liberal, but Not Smarter About Civics

[MaximusB]

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

Youth have nothing to be responsible for, wait until you have things like mouths to feed other than your own, clothing, and housing.

Blame stuff like poverty, homelessness, hunger, and mediocrity on youthful arrogance, see what your family thinks of you then. Let me know.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this post doesn’t even make sense. What’s your point?[/quote]

No, I would not expect you to understand it, or anyone under the age of 30. [/quote]

I’m 35, and I have two kids.

Again, what is your point?
[/quote]

Knowing your situation now, I don’t believe you are capable of understanding any point brought up.

[JoeGood]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

I agree. Having a home mortgage or children does not automatically confer upon anyone any special knowledge about political issues or world affairs; it just means that you know from experience what it’s like to have kids or make house payments.

It’s kind of like what they say about doctors. I have a couple friends who are going through med school and a couple of friends’s parents who are doctors. They all say that, for the most part it’s the young doctors right out of med school that know more than the doctor who has 20 years of experience. Why? Because the younger ones are much more in tune with the “latest and greatest” techniques, findings, research, etc because they HAVE to study it and the info is fresh in their mind. The older ones are only as well-informed as their own efforts outside of the hospital have made them.

It’s hubris to think that age and experience trumps youth. I can guarantee you that any poly sci, economics or history students on this site know more about how the world works outside of their own lives than virtually anyone else on this forum. Why? because they are studying those subjects right now and if they are majoring in these areas then they clearly have some sort of passion for the subjects and probably spend more time thinking and reading about them than a parent of three who’s more concerned about putting food on the table and making house payments. Such is the luxury of youth.

The flip side of that coin is that the youth tend to argue or view things in terms of theory rather than reality.[/quote]

Most poly sci and history students know nothing other than what a small group of professor spoon feed them. I work at a University and there is no great waste of time than a bachelors in poly sci. I could tutor an Aotus through a poly sci degree. When you get to a PhD then yes they should know a great deal about how the world works.

[JoeGood]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

I agree. Having a home mortgage or children does not automatically confer upon anyone any special knowledge about political issues or world affairs; it just means that you know from experience what it’s like to have kids or make house payments.

It’s kind of like what they say about doctors. I have a couple friends who are going through med school and a couple of friends’s parents who are doctors. They all say that, for the most part it’s the young doctors right out of med school that know more than the doctor who has 20 years of experience. Why? Because the younger ones are much more in tune with the “latest and greatest” techniques, findings, research, etc because they HAVE to study it and the info is fresh in their mind. The older ones are only as well-informed as their own efforts outside of the hospital have made them.

It’s hubris to think that age and experience trumps youth. I can guarantee you that any poly sci, economics or history students on this site know more about how the world works outside of their own lives than virtually anyone else on this forum. Why? because they are studying those subjects right now and if they are majoring in these areas then they clearly have some sort of passion for the subjects and probably spend more time thinking and reading about them than a parent of three who’s more concerned about putting food on the table and making house payments. Such is the luxury of youth.

The flip side of that coin is that the youth tend to argue or view things in terms of theory rather than reality.[/quote]

Most poly sci and history students know nothing other than what a small group of professor spoon feed them. I work at a University and there is no greater waste of time than a bachelors in poly sci. I could tutor an Aotus through a poly sci degree. When you get to a PhD then yes they should know a great deal about how the world works.

[Tex_Ag]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And most of our colleges are very liberal. [/quote]

This is way over stated and has not held up to analysis, which suggest a slight lean towards liberal ideas. But here is the thing, if you are teaching students to think, actually think and not regurgitate facts, you need to expose them to new ideas. Just because a professor may cover a range of ideas, and some of them are ‘liberal’, does not make the university ‘very liberal’. I think DB answered about student perception well.

I will say that might students lately have been complaining about how much they hear about feminist theory.[/quote]

Here’s one survey that proves you wrong:

http://chronicle.com/article/College-Makes-Students-More/64040

College Makes Students More Liberal, but Not Smarter About Civics

[/quote]

You did not read the article or the comments, did you?

The research was developed and reported by “an independent group with a tradition-minded view of issues”, i.e. conservative think tank, whose issue is that the more people are in college the greater the chance they support same-sex marriage. Am I supposed to believe that greater understanding of how the government functions will make people take more conservative stances on social issues?

[Tex_Ag]

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

I agree. Having a home mortgage or children does not automatically confer upon anyone any special knowledge about political issues or world affairs; it just means that you know from experience what it’s like to have kids or make house payments.

It’s kind of like what they say about doctors. I have a couple friends who are going through med school and a couple of friends’s parents who are doctors. They all say that, for the most part it’s the young doctors right out of med school that know more than the doctor who has 20 years of experience. Why? Because the younger ones are much more in tune with the “latest and greatest” techniques, findings, research, etc because they HAVE to study it and the info is fresh in their mind. The older ones are only as well-informed as their own efforts outside of the hospital have made them.

It’s hubris to think that age and experience trumps youth. I can guarantee you that any poly sci, economics or history students on this site know more about how the world works outside of their own lives than virtually anyone else on this forum. Why? because they are studying those subjects right now and if they are majoring in these areas then they clearly have some sort of passion for the subjects and probably spend more time thinking and reading about them than a parent of three who’s more concerned about putting food on the table and making house payments. Such is the luxury of youth.

The flip side of that coin is that the youth tend to argue or view things in terms of theory rather than reality.[/quote]

Most poly sci and history students know nothing other than what a small group of professor spoon feed them. I work at a University and there is no greater waste of time than a bachelors in poly sci. I could tutor an Aotus through a poly sci degree. When you get to a PhD then yes they should know a great deal about how the world works.[/quote]

My discussion with students is that few do all the assigned readings for their courses. The idea that professors are supposed to teach the students everything in lecture is a fallacy. So if the students only know what the professors have ‘spoon fed them’ than the blame is far more on the students than the professors.

[swoleupinya]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

Youth have nothing to be responsible for, wait until you have things like mouths to feed other than your own, clothing, and housing.

Blame stuff like poverty, homelessness, hunger, and mediocrity on youthful arrogance, see what your family thinks of you then. Let me know.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but this post doesn’t even make sense. What’s your point?[/quote]

No, I would not expect you to understand it, or anyone under the age of 30. [/quote]

I’m 35, and I have two kids.

Again, what is your point?
[/quote]

Knowing your situation now, I don’t believe you are capable of understanding any point brought up. [/quote]

Okay. I get it now… you were trying to show that you are arrogant AND illiterate… makes perfect sense now.

[ZEB]

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And most of our colleges are very liberal. [/quote]

This is way over stated and has not held up to analysis, which suggest a slight lean towards liberal ideas. But here is the thing, if you are teaching students to think, actually think and not regurgitate facts, you need to expose them to new ideas. Just because a professor may cover a range of ideas, and some of them are ‘liberal’, does not make the university ‘very liberal’. I think DB answered about student perception well.

I will say that might students lately have been complaining about how much they hear about feminist theory.[/quote]

Here’s one survey that proves you wrong:

http://chronicle.com/article/College-Makes-Students-More/64040

College Makes Students More Liberal, but Not Smarter About Civics

[/quote]

You did not read the article or the comments, did you?

The research was developed and reported by “an independent group with a tradition-minded view of issues”, i.e. conservative think tank, whose issue is that the more people are in college the greater the chance they support same-sex marriage. Am I supposed to believe that greater understanding of how the government functions will make people take more conservative stances on social issues?[/quote]

I don’t think it is a conservative think tank. But whatever it you call it if you cannot disprove their survey I hardly think it’s fair to dismiss it out of hand. The US is center right in it’s political thinking you do know that right? Is it really that much of a stretch to accept the fact that most universities are liberal? I hardly think there is anyone around who doubts this.

Hey, I’ll poke around if I come with anything either way I’ll post it. It will be a real eye opener for me if there were any data around to show the contrary. But I will post it if it’s there.

Have a good one.

[rageradios]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And most of our colleges are very liberal. [/quote]

This is way over stated and has not held up to analysis, which suggest a slight lean towards liberal ideas. But here is the thing, if you are teaching students to think, actually think and not regurgitate facts, you need to expose them to new ideas. Just because a professor may cover a range of ideas, and some of them are ‘liberal’, does not make the university ‘very liberal’. I think DB answered about student perception well.

I will say that might students lately have been complaining about how much they hear about feminist theory.[/quote]

Here’s one survey that proves you wrong:

http://chronicle.com/article/College-Makes-Students-More/64040

College Makes Students More Liberal, but Not Smarter About Civics

[/quote]

You did not read the article or the comments, did you?

The research was developed and reported by “an independent group with a tradition-minded view of issues”, i.e. conservative think tank, whose issue is that the more people are in college the greater the chance they support same-sex marriage. Am I supposed to believe that greater understanding of how the government functions will make people take more conservative stances on social issues?[/quote]

I don’t think it is a conservative think tank. But whatever it you call it if you cannot disprove their survey I hardly think it’s fair to dismiss it out of hand. The US is center right in it’s political thinking you do know that right? Is it really that much of a stretch to accept the fact that most universities are liberal? I hardly think there is anyone around who doubts this.

Hey, I’ll poke around if I come with anything either way I’ll post it. It will be a real eye opener for me if there were any data around to show the contrary. But I will post it if it’s there.

Have a good one.
[/quote]

Being one of these ‘kids’ I’ll take on what my possibly retarded brethren think. The fact of the matter is that most professors have, at least, a slight liberal tilt. A lot espouse a pretty libertarian view, and it works for most college kids, because honestly who wants to see their friends go down on a tiny weed charge. As much As i may hate a true neo-con view on life ZEB is not wrong at all. my profs are all muy bueno down for very lefist thinking,and even though they love to complain about how little they get paid. Here in Massachusetts I can see what my profs get paid, they are living the fucking dream as far as i;m concerned. I hate whiney poli sci profs even though they are making a solid 120 a year.

My dad would literally kill for the amount of money my teachers make in week just to feed my mother and I with something other than cosco chickens.

[Tex_Ag]

[quote]rageradios wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And most of our colleges are very liberal. [/quote]

This is way over stated and has not held up to analysis, which suggest a slight lean towards liberal ideas. But here is the thing, if you are teaching students to think, actually think and not regurgitate facts, you need to expose them to new ideas. Just because a professor may cover a range of ideas, and some of them are ‘liberal’, does not make the university ‘very liberal’. I think DB answered about student perception well.

I will say that might students lately have been complaining about how much they hear about feminist theory.[/quote]

Here’s one survey that proves you wrong:

http://chronicle.com/article/College-Makes-Students-More/64040

College Makes Students More Liberal, but Not Smarter About Civics

[/quote]

You did not read the article or the comments, did you?

The research was developed and reported by “an independent group with a tradition-minded view of issues”, i.e. conservative think tank, whose issue is that the more people are in college the greater the chance they support same-sex marriage. Am I supposed to believe that greater understanding of how the government functions will make people take more conservative stances on social issues?[/quote]

I don’t think it is a conservative think tank. But whatever it you call it if you cannot disprove their survey I hardly think it’s fair to dismiss it out of hand. The US is center right in it’s political thinking you do know that right? Is it really that much of a stretch to accept the fact that most universities are liberal? I hardly think there is anyone around who doubts this.

Hey, I’ll poke around if I come with anything either way I’ll post it. It will be a real eye opener for me if there were any data around to show the contrary. But I will post it if it’s there.

Have a good one.
[/quote]

Being one of these ‘kids’ I’ll take on what my possibly retarded brethren think. The fact of the matter is that most professors have, at least, a slight liberal tilt. A lot espouse a pretty libertarian view, and it works for most college kids, because honestly who wants to see their friends go down on a tiny weed charge. As much As i may hate a true neo-con view on life ZEB is not wrong at all. my profs are all muy bueno down for very lefist thinking,and even though they love to complain about how little they get paid. Here in Massachusetts I can see what my profs get paid, they are living the fucking dream as far as i;m concerned. I hate whiney poli sci profs even though they are making a solid 120 a year.

My dad would literally kill for the amount of money my teachers make in week just to feed my mother and I with something other than cosco chickens.
[/quote]

In some departments there are more liberals, other departments more conservatives. I do agree with universities having a slightly more liberal than conservative bent, but not nearly to the point that they are accused. Some professors kept their personal views out of the classroom, others do not.

My point was that in the introduction of new ideas many will be different, being different they will be labeled by some as liberal. It is our job in universities to introduce students to other ideas, perceptions and ways of thinking. However, I do not believe we are to force students to follow our personal beliefs. Universities are market places of ideas and it is difficult to limit the exposure of students to particular ideas unless an individual department or perhaps heavy-handed adviser seeks to do so. I cannot say this does not happen, but I would think it would be rather rare.

Given the feedback I have gotten from students in the same class, not just course but same class, there is a wide range of possible interpretations I what I teach (which I am fine with as long as it gets them thinking). I find it hard to think one professor or class could do more than broaden a perspective. This could be interpreted in making someone more liberal, but if that is the case, if it wrong to introduce students to more perspectives than just one, then okay.

[JoeGood]

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]JoeGood wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]swoleupinya wrote:
Sometimes it’s useful to listen to the idealism of the young. Ignorance does often lead to brilliance.

In fact, I think a more contemptible attitude than the arrogance of youth is the arrogance of experience… we should know better. [/quote]

I agree. Having a home mortgage or children does not automatically confer upon anyone any special knowledge about political issues or world affairs; it just means that you know from experience what it’s like to have kids or make house payments.

It’s kind of like what they say about doctors. I have a couple friends who are going through med school and a couple of friends’s parents who are doctors. They all say that, for the most part it’s the young doctors right out of med school that know more than the doctor who has 20 years of experience. Why? Because the younger ones are much more in tune with the “latest and greatest” techniques, findings, research, etc because they HAVE to study it and the info is fresh in their mind. The older ones are only as well-informed as their own efforts outside of the hospital have made them.

It’s hubris to think that age and experience trumps youth. I can guarantee you that any poly sci, economics or history students on this site know more about how the world works outside of their own lives than virtually anyone else on this forum. Why? because they are studying those subjects right now and if they are majoring in these areas then they clearly have some sort of passion for the subjects and probably spend more time thinking and reading about them than a parent of three who’s more concerned about putting food on the table and making house payments. Such is the luxury of youth.

The flip side of that coin is that the youth tend to argue or view things in terms of theory rather than reality.[/quote]

Most poly sci and history students know nothing other than what a small group of professor spoon feed them. I work at a University and there is no greater waste of time than a bachelors in poly sci. I could tutor an Aotus through a poly sci degree. When you get to a PhD then yes they should know a great deal about how the world works.[/quote]

My discussion with students is that few do all the assigned readings for their courses. The idea that professors are supposed to teach the students everything in lecture is a fallacy. So if the students only know what the professors have ‘spoon fed them’ than the blame is far more on the students than the professors.[/quote]

Agreed, they for the most part do what they need to do to get by. Particularly in those cases like poly sci where the vast majority of the students are only there because they required to have so many social science hours.

[CappedAndPlanIt]

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
All hail the mighty children who know it all!

They have lived 1/4 of the life you have, have never had to pay a mortgage, have never been responsible for the lives of others, their own car insurance, food, bills…but they can tell you how the world and government works bar none!

Give it up to the esteemed children. They know it all and we have been punked! I think it must be Holiday break.[/quote]

Young people tend to be less directly involved. They have the luxury of idealism.

However, paying a mortgage, taxes, insurance, etc, doesn’t mean you know the “best” way or even how things “really” work. It just means you have a personal stake in the matter now.

So a young person could argue that medical care “should” be socialized. But since you pay taxes and socialized medicine would raise those taxes, you tend to be against it, and say that they dont understand because they dont have as much “life experience”.

Neither position is inherently better or worse, just different.

[TBT4ver]

I had a different path but same outcome as a lot of the right posters. I was I’d say more in the center, possibly center left in college, but it wasn’t having a job, mortgage, etc (I don’t have kids) that turned me right, but instead being exposed to more people, and realizing that not everyone works hard. I think in college in general (obviously exceptions) you are surrounded by relatively intelligent, relatively driven people, and get into that mindset that if everyone were that way, maybe a liberal philosophy would work. But when I get out of college I realize there are a lot more lazy POS’s out there than I gave credit for, and that no government programs would ever change that.

[ZEB]

[quote]TBT4ver wrote:
I had a different path but same outcome as a lot of the right posters. I was I’d say more in the center, possibly center left in college, but it wasn’t having a job, mortgage, etc (I don’t have kids) that turned me right, but instead being exposed to more people, and realizing that not everyone works hard. I think in college in general (obviously exceptions) you are surrounded by relatively intelligent, relatively driven people, and get into that mindset that if everyone were that way, maybe a liberal philosophy would work. But when I get out of college I realize there are a lot more lazy POS’s out there than I gave credit for, and that no government programs would ever change that.[/quote]

Good read but government programs do change that. They make it worse! They encourage many of those whom they are “helping” to not work. Currently we have the most niaive administration perpahs of all time. For example, extending unemployment benefits for almost three years simply creates another economic sub class that feels they don’t have to work. Call it anything you’d like if I pay you NOT to work, and the money I pay you even comes close to what you can make by working, you’re not going to go to work - Simple.

So, yeah good read on reality vs college.

[siouxperman]

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

It’s also proof and a wake up call as to how liberalism and socialism is ingrained in our youth through university teachings today.
[/quote]

I think you hit that one dead center.
[/quote]

Most of the people who say this are far removed from college. I just recently finished undergrad, and it’s not as black and white as you would like it. The only reason I knew any of my professors’ political leanings is because I worked with them on research outside of class. Other than that, there was very little, if any, mention of politics in class. Unless of course you were in a class in which that was a topic of discussion. I had a fruitcake philosophy professor that we as liberal as he was gay. And he was really gay. And although I attended a school that would be classified as liberal, I’d estimate about a 60/40 split on the politcal views (Dem. to Repub.) of the student body. About 40% of the school was involved in greek life (I wasn’t) about 90% of those kids were stupid rich (and just plain stupid), and 99% of them were what they thought was “conservative.” The rest of the student body leaned a bit left (and there were of course very liberal people in this group), but overall it wasn’t overwhelmingly one or the other. And now that I’m in grad school, I’m working with a research mentor who is openly anti Obama. The lab I work in is also about 50/50, as evidenced by a recent debate we had in there. One of the staunch conservatives also thinks the earth is around 200,000 years old for some reason. Point being, stuff like this never boils to simple classifications of old vs. young, college educated vs. not, etc. But we should continue bringing it up.

I feel like that post came out in sort of a stream of consciousness fashion. Ah, oh well.

[PB_Andy]

As a senior in a very liberal city (Chicago), at what is likely a very liberal college (U of IL at Chicago), I have to agree wtih siouxperman. The talk of liberalism being taught/ingrained by the teachings or other students is overdone greatly. In fact I cannot recall talk of politics coming up at all from teachers, and in terms of what the student body thinks in terms of beliefs, it seems that liberals only slightly outweigh the conservatives (due to Chicago still being very liberal).

[stokedporcupine8]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

I agree. Having a home mortgage or children does not automatically confer upon anyone any special knowledge about political issues or world affairs; it just means that you know from experience what it’s like to have kids or make house payments.

[/quote]

Exactly. I’ve always wondered just what it was about having a home mortgage or having children which automatically conferred special knowledge about political issues or world affairs. I would be interested in seeing Rockscar or ZEB or someone who uses this argument actually explain just why having a mortgage or having children did this.