[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
ShaunW wrote:
In response to Stellar’s quote “The Orthodox Christian Church also has the accounts of Saints who further validate that an afterlife is very real. Faith is an esssential component in such matters. Either you have it or you don’t. The whole concept of faith subtracts the possibility of ever knowing for sure, but indeed one day the truth will be revealed.”
*Regarding Saints: I was alluding to Orthodox Christian tradition which contains a multitude of miracles whereby Saints, some of whom died centuries earlier, appear to believers in dreams, visions, and even in the flesh testifying of heaven & hell.
The God Gene - a scientist has isolated a set of genes which indicate an individuals predisposition to feeling spiritual.
A couple of excerpts:
"Hamer decided to use the data he gathered in the smoking survey to conduct a little spirituality study on the side. First he ranked the participants along Cloninger’s self-transcendence scale, placing them on a continuum from least to most spiritually inclined. Then he went poking around in their genes to see if he could find the DNA responsible for the differences. Spelunking in the human genome is not easy, what with 35,000 genes consisting of 3.2 billion chemical bases. To narrow the field, Hamer confined his work to nine specific genes known to play major roles in the production of monoamines?brain chemicals, including serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine, that regulate such fundamental functions as mood and motor control. It’s monoamines that are carefully manipulated by Prozac and other antidepressants. It’s also monoamines that are not so carefully scrambled by ecstasy, LSD, peyote and other mind-altering drugs?some of which have long been used in religious rituals.
Studying the nine candidate genes in DNA samples provided by his subjects, Hamer quickly hit the genetic jackpot. A variation in a gene known as vmat2?for vesicular monoamine transporter?seemed to be directly related to how the volunteers scored on the self-transcendence test. Those with the nucleic acid cytosine in one particular spot on the gene ranked high. Those with the nucleic acid adenine in the same spot ranked lower. “A single change in a single base in the middle of the gene seemed directly related to the ability to feel self-transcendence,” Hamer says. Merely having that feeling did not mean those people would take the next step and translate their transcendence into a belief in?or even a quest for?God. But they seemed likelier to do so than those who never got the feeling at all.
Hamer is careful to point out that the gene he found is by no means the only one that affects spirituality. Even minor human traits can be governed by the interplay of many genes; something as complex as belief in God could involve hundreds or even thousands."
and:
"Hamer also stresses that while he may have located a genetic root for spirituality, that is not the same as a genetic root for religion.
Spirituality is a feeling or a state of mind; religion is the way that state gets codified into law. Our genes don’t get directly involved in writing legislation. As Hamer puts it, perhaps understating a bit the emotional connection many have to their religions, “Spirituality is intensely personal; religion is institutional.”
The science of trying to genetically map spirituality is in a pioneering stage, thus I’d be quite reluctant to draw any premature conclusions on the matter. After all, weren’t scientists trying to draw similar theories regarding the gene(s) responsible for homosexuality which have since been debunked?
And the article itself warns that:
“Hamer is careful to point out that the gene he found is by no means the only one that affects spirituality.”
For all we know, there are hundreds of genes responsible for affecting spirituality which yield a congruent effect. Just because someone lacks the nucleic acid cytosine in one particular spot on this gene does not mean they are automatically predisposed to high levels of spirituality; there may be correlative factors which have yet to be discovered.
"Other researchers have taken the science in a different direction, looking not for the genes that code for spirituality but for how that spirituality plays out in the brain. Neuroscientist Andrew Newberg of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine has used several types of imaging systems to watch the brains of subjects as they meditate or pray. By measuring blood flow, he determines which regions are responsible for the feelings the volunteers experience.
The deeper that people descend into meditation or prayer, Newberg found, the more active the frontal lobe and the limbic system become.
Finally, science is catching up to the Church! There is a reason why Jesus Christ emphatically endorses that all Christians “watch and pray” and that the Bible teaches us to “pray unceasingly”. The Creator perfectly understands the way humans are designed, for we are His creations. It makes excellent sense that Jesus Christ who wills for all of us to achieve salvation instructed us in the proper methods and therapies in accomplishing such a struggle. Jesus Christ preached about a spiritual kingdom, and if praying is one of the ways we prepare for this spiritual destination, so be it - we should dedicate time to pray more often.
The frontal lobe is the seat of concentration and attention; the limbic system is where powerful feelings, including rapture, are processed. More revealing is the fact that at the same time these regions flash to life, another important region?the parietal lobe at the back of the brain?goes dim. It’s this lobe that orients the individual in time and space. Take it off-line, and the boundaries of the self fall away, creating the feeling of being at one with the universe. Combine that with what’s going on in the other two lobes, and you can put together a profound religious experience. "
Just because science has finally discovered a pathway that religious or spiritual experiences manifest themselves does not mean God had nothing to do with this design. This is the way the Creator created for His creations to experience Him. Nothing dazzling about that. Had research shown otherwise - that there was NO change in brainwave activity when praying, then you might’ve had a compulsive argument to steer people away from the Christian Faith. Like “hey look, you praying does nothing on a neurological level”. Humans are composed of 2 elements - the biological & the spiritual. That’s why FASTING is also critical in addition to PRAYER. Both these therapies are executed with the body but have a great impact on the soul. The Orthodox Christian Church has stressed the value of prayer, amongst other therapies mentioned in my initial post, but was never able to provide scientific data to validate its position. Hopefully as time rolls on we’ll see technological advances continue to support the teachings of the Church.
The way I see it - Stellar is 100% correct - you have faith or you don’t - and it’s genetically determined. As such, does this mean those who are not predisposed to have a religious faith, are therefore going to a hell they CAN’T believe in?
1-FAITH IS NOT GENETICALLY DETERMINED. The article you posted above even refutes you. If ANYONE, regardless of genetic code, actively engages in deep meditation or prayer on a long-term basis, they’ll excite the frontal lobe & limbic system, thus affecting spiritual experiences. It is these spiritual experiences commencing in the mind which Jesus Christ calls for mankind to employ so that when the mind becomes purified, the heart may slowly begin to be cleansed as well. A spiritual catharsis may or may not necessitate biological prerequisites. Go read about how Jesus Christ did nothing but fast & pray for 40 days & 40 nights in the wilderness, thereby exhibiting the method for all us sinners to be spiritually strengthened and cleansed.
2-A second reason I STRONGLY DENY that faith is genetically determined is because of my own personal experiences. I went from having very little of it for almost 20 years of my life, then I had a great deal of it for some years, then I had absolutely none for almost 3, and now I have faith again. It doesn’t seem to be, “well since you don’t have it now, you never will”, or “well you have it now so you always will” as you insinuate. And for the record, I know a few people that’ve had similar experiences. How can gene mapping explain away this phenomenon?
Peace be with you.
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maybe there is a potentiator gene that kicks in when you are desperate and weak?
