Kick 'em While They're Down

[quote]100meters wrote:
The word you mention is malakoi which is mistranslated for bias to effeminate, but actually means soft, or better yet here vulnerable,pliable,unreliable. Its used in matthew and luke as soft(reference to clothing) and isn’t used anywhere else.[/quote]

The word “malakia” in Greek is a very common word and has its roots in the ancient Greek lexicon. It refers to sexual perversion.
If any of you have any Greek friends and refer to them as “malakes”, you’re basically calling them jerkoffs or sexually immoral people. The word “malako” refers to something soft but the word “malakia” strictly refers to sexual perversion.

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
And for those who want to throw around references in efforts of condoning homosexuality on a biogenetics or sociological level, I’m game. Let’s fight fire with fire. There’s another side to the coin you cunningly fail to mention and in efforts to protect the uneducated public from reading your biased posts and drawing uninformed conclusions, I’ve listed these references below so that a FULL evaluation on the issue may be conducted by intrigued readers.

Paul Cameron, PhD, “Medical Consequences of what Homosexuals Do”
http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet3.html

RECTAL SEX a.k.a. sodomy
“Surveys indicate that about 90% of gays have engaged in rectal intercourse, and about two-thirds do it regularly. In a 6-month long study of daily sexual diaries, gays averaged 110 sex partners and 68 rectal encounters a year.”
*Also read on how gays use innocent, furry little creatures to fulfill their sexual desires. The grave sins of Sodom & Gomorrah (sodomy & bestiality) are evidently commonplace among homosexuals.

FECAL SEX
“About 80% of gays admit to licking and/or inserting their tongues into the anus of partners and thus ingesting medically significant amounts of feces. Those who eat or wallow in it are probably at even greater risk. In the diary study, 70% of the gays had engaged in this activity - half regularly over 6 months.”
*Like dogs who return to their own vomit… so it is with grave sinners and heinous abominations.

SADOMASOCHISM
“…a large minority of gays engage in torture for sexual fun. Sex with minors 25% of white gays admitted to sex with boys 16 or younger as adults. In a 9-state study, 33% of the 181 male, and 22% of the 18 female teachers caught molesting students did so homosexually (though less than 3% of men and 2% of women engage in homosexuality… and 90% said that they used illegal drugs.”
*Analyzing this statistic it becomes clear that homosexuals, although a substantially smaller minority of the population, are exponentially at risk for molesting children.

John R Diggs, Jr, MD, “The Health Risks of Gay Sex” (pdf file)
http://www.corporateresourcecouncil.org/white_papers/Health_Risks.pdf

“Health and Homosexuality”
http://www.homosexuellt.com/infosida/show_article.asp?Idnr=207

Timothy J Dailey, PhD, “The Negative Health Effects of Homosexuality”
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS01B1

Timothy J Dailey, PhD, “Homosexual Parenting: Placing Children at Risk”
http://www.frc.org/index.cfm?i=IS01J3&f=WU05A06&t=e

Timothy J Dailey, PhD, “Comparing the Lifestyles of Homosexual Couples to Married Couples”
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS04C02

Timothy J Dailey, PhD, “Ten Arguments from Social Science Research Against Same-Sex Marriage”

*As a veteran in the field of social services, I found this article quite enlightening.

NARTH, “What Do Clinical Studies Say?” (a compilation of links to several reports)
http://www.narth.com/menus/cstudies.html

NARTH, “Born That Way” Theory (a compilation of links to several reports)
http://www.narth.com/menus/born.html
*Bookmark these and forward to your gay or uneducated friends.

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” May these words continue to echo in my heart as I hope they will in the hearts of homosexuals and all you other readers.

I developed a personal quote years ago which I repeat every so often when it seems I’ve fallen on hard times, am faltering with certain sins, or being tested by God.

Life flashes by in the blink of an eye, but eternity is forever.
-stellar_horizon

Peace be with you all.
[/quote]

Oh my! Stellar you’ve outdone yourself this time. Fellow posters try to believe that Stellar has posted findings from grade A crackpot Dr.Paul Cameron! witness that:

  • At its membership meeting on October 19, 1984, the Nebraska Psychological Association adopted a resolution stating that it "formally disassociates itself from the representations and interpretations of scientific literature offered by Dr. Paul Cameron in his writings and public statements on sexuality."6

  • In 1985, the American Sociological Association (ASA) adopted a resolution which asserted that “Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism” and noted that "Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his distorted interpretation of this research."7 The resolution formally charged an ASA committee with the task of “critically evaluating and publicly responding to the work of Dr. Paul Cameron.”

  • At its August, 1986 meeting, the ASA officially accepted the committee’s report and passed the following resolution:

    The American Sociological Association officially and publicly states that Paul Cameron is not a sociologist, and condemns his consistent misrepresentation of sociological research. Information on this action and a copy of the report by the Committee on the Status of Homosexuals in Sociology, “The Paul Cameron Case,” is to be published in Footnotes, and be sent to the officers of all regional and state sociological associations and to the Canadian Sociological Association with a request that they alert their members to Cameron’s frequent lecture and media appearances."8

  • Cameron’s credibility was also questioned outside of academia. In his written opinion in Baker v. Wade (1985), Judge Buchmeyer of the U.S. District Court of Dallas referred to “Cameron’s sworn statement that ‘homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals,’” and concluded that “Dr. Paul Cameron…has himself made misrepresentations to this Court” and that “There has been no fraud or misrepresentations except by Dr. Cameron” (p.536).9

for some of the debunking read:

"Distortions and sloppy methods continue to shape Cameron’s studies. As anyone who has taken a statistics class knows, a survey is valid only if the sample it uses is representative of the whole population. Sex surveys pose a particular problem, since many people who normally would be included in a representative sample are loath to discuss their private lives. That, however, hasn’t deterred Cameron from his work.

Consider, for instance, his 1983 ISIS study, a survey of the sexual and social behavior of 4,340 adults in five American cities. Although thousands of heterosexuals allegedly responded to his survey, Cameron could get only forty-one gay men and twenty-four lesbians to respond. The extremely small sample size should have invalidated any conclusions about the sexual behavior of the gay population. In any case, the skewed results of the survey show that Cameron did not get an adequate random sample of heterosexuals either. He claims to have found that 52 percent of male heterosexuals have shoplifted; that 34 percent have committed a crime without being caught; and that 12 percent have either committed or attempted to commit murder. Most people would toss out such a survey, but Cameron published the results in several pamphlets and in “Effect of Homosexuality upon Public Health and Social Order,” an article in Psychological Reports.

In one pamphlet, Murder Violence and Homosexuality, Cameron asserts that you are fifteen times more apt to be killed by a homosexual than by a heterosexual during a sexual murder spree; that homosexuals have committed the most sexual conspiracy murders; and that half of all sex murderers are homosexuals. Cameron based these conclusions on a sample of thirty-four serial killers he selected from the years 1966 to 1983. He stacked the deck not only by including phony figures (he counts in his sample the claims of Henry Lee Lucas, who subsequently recanted his boast that he murdered hundreds of people) but by examining only those serial killers with an apparent sexual motive. This allowed him to include John Wayne Gacy and his victims but to exclude the great majority of serial killers who are heterosexual, according to sociologist Jack Levin, the author of Mass Murder: America’s Growing Menace.

In Cameron’s writings on child molestation-the pamphlet Child Molestation and Homosexuality and two published articles, “Homosexual Molestation of Children/Sexual Interaction of Teacher and Pupil” and "Child Molestation and Homosexuality -he concludes that gays have perpetrated between one-third and one-half of all child molestations; that homosexual teachers have committed between onequarter and four-fifths of all molestations of pupils; and that gays are ten to twenty times more apt to molest children than are heterosexuals. These figures are said to be based on the content of other child molestation studies, yet Cameron has distorted those studies to get the results he wants. For example, he defines all adult male molestation of male children as molestations committed by homosexuals, a definition rejected by the very experts Cameron cites. Groth, among other experts, has explicitly said that most molesters of boys are in fact men who are heterosexual in their adult relationships. These men are attracted to boys, he says, largely because of the feminine characteristics of prepubescents, such as a lack of body hair.

Cameron also has provided anti-gay organizations with research indicating absurdly high rates of extreme sex practices and venereal diseases among gays and lesbians. In his pamphlets on these subjects, Cameron has claimed, for instance, that 29 percent of gay men practice “urine sex” and that 37 percent of gay men have sadomasochistic sex. Gay men, he says, are fourteen times more apt to have syphilis than heterosexual men and are three times more apt to have had lice. Lesbians are said to be nineteen times more apt to have syphilis than straight women and are four times more apt to have had scabies. Cameron’s findings, however, are based on two sources: his discredited 1983 ISIS survey and other studies that ignore random sampling techniques. Several studies Cameron cites to support his conclusions rely on the responses of gay men who were recruited entirely from V.D. clinics.

A Cameron study that has received perhaps the most attention is “The Lifespan of Homosexuals.” It concludes that less than 2 percent of gay men survive to old age; that lesbians have a median age of death of 45; that gays are 116 times more apt to be murdered than straight men and twenty-four times more apt to commit suicide, etc. The source of this material? A comparison of obituaries front gay newspapers with a sample from regular newspapers -a method that would be laughed at by any reputable scholar. Obituaries in gay papers do not accurately portray deaths in the gay population as a whole. They are not meant to provide a public record of deaths of all gays but to allow members of the urban gay community to express mourning for their peers, particularly those whose lives have been cut short by illness or accident. Gays who die outside these communities or who die of natural causes are much less likely to be written tip in a gay paper."

It’s almost too funny that you’d dare to post material conservatives like american spectator won’t even touch! What’s next posting info from Timothy J. Daily? MY GOD! You dared to post this nut’s “findings” too. Have you read his kooky booklet from the FRC? (The Bible and Homosexuality)Here’s a tip to readers–The bible doesn’t say squat about homosexuality, so has anybody from FRC ever read the bible? A thinking man would have to say NO! Next question has Stellar read the bible? Again it seems impossible to square stellar’s logic with the intent of Christ.

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

27 He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.

31 "A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.

32 "So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.

33 "But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.

34 "He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.

35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. ''Look after him,'' he said, ''and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.''

36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"

37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

Understand the moral here? Jesus gives stellar ONE single commandment and Stellar is baffled and dazed at what love one another(that’s everybody with no exceptions listed) as I have loved you(that’s unconditionally). Readers note that if Jesus wanted to say something about homosexuals, oral sex, and everything else Jesus could have mentioned it in his ONE commandment. But Jesus never says a word about these things. Also note in the samaritan parable the good neighbor was the samaritan, who were outcasts, pagans, and frowned upon. Stellar…it’s time to quickly return to your bible studies and read the good news!

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
This passage is directly extracted from the Septuagint and translated from ancient Greek into modern English by Sir Lancelot C.L. Brenton in 1851. I’ve also included the phrase in question according to the pronunciation as read aloud in ancient Greek.

Leviticus
20:10
Whatever man shall commit adultery with the wife of a man, or whoever shall commit adultery with the wife of his neighbor, let them die the death, the adulterer and the adulteress.

20:11
And if anyone should lie with his father’s wife, he has uncovered his father’s nakedness; let them both die the death, they are guilty.

20:12
And if anyone should lie with his daughter-in-law, let them both be put to death; for they have wrought impiety, they are guilty.

20:13
And whoever shall lie with a male as with a woman, they have both wrought abomination; let them die the death, they are guilty.

20:14
Whosoever shall take a woman and her mother, it is iniquity: they shall burn him and them with fire; so there shall not be iniquity among you.

20:15
And whosoever shall lie with a beast, let him die the death; and ye shall kill the beast.

20:16
And whatever woman shall approach any beast, so as to have connection with it, ye shall kill the woman and the beast: let them die the death, they are guilty.

Leviticus 20:13
ancient Greek
Kai os av koimithi meta arsenos koitin ginaikas vtheligma epoiisan amfoteroi thanato thanatousthosan enoxoi eisin

In the context of Leviticus, absolutely NOTHING in this entire chapter correlates to the Baal fertility rituals, but someone tried to create a false association with this passage in question. Beware!

Leviticus 20:13 clearly warns against men sleeping with other men in a sexual manner. In that age, it was scandalous for a man to even lay in the same bed with a woman unless they were unified by the bond of marriage because it could be suspected they were engaging in improper conduct (partaking in sexual relations). Laying with a woman inferred sexual relations. Not only does God clearly forbid any such relations between persons of the same gender, but the Almighty even orders their execution so they shall not spread their filthy lifestyle.

[/quote]
OY! The context is leviticus! the word for abomination is use only in regards to rituals of the pagan variety in this case it was heterosexual men sleeping with other heterosexual men in pagan rituals. Not that Leviticus matters in the least to Christians but still.

[quote]stellar_horizon wrote:
100meters wrote:
The word you mention is malakoi which is mistranslated for bias to effeminate, but actually means soft, or better yet here vulnerable,pliable,unreliable. Its used in matthew and luke as soft(reference to clothing) and isn’t used anywhere else.

The word “malakia” in Greek is a very common word and has its roots in the ancient Greek lexicon. It refers to sexual perversion.
If any of you have any Greek friends and refer to them as “malakes”, you’re basically calling them jerkoffs or sexually immoral people. The word “malako” refers to something soft but the word “malakia” strictly refers to sexual perversion.[/quote]
Jerkoffs just doesn’t fit here or sexual perversion and your stretching. As used in the BIBLE it means just as I said, and you know it. universally used it means soft or weak, conjecture added the rest.(And your bias)

[quote]100meters wrote:
There are zero lists refering to homosexuality as a loving relationship between 2 people in the bible as it “was” written.[/quote]

Again, you purposefully remain vague about what type of love you’re referring to. Do you mean EROS or do you mean AGAPE. It’s obvious you confuse these two very distinct forms of love as inscribed in the New Testament.

[quote]
Paul certainly had the ability to use very clear language to condemn consentual homosexual relations, but NEVER does, nor does Jesus for that matter. You have to be careful about preaching a different gospel.[/quote]

You failed to answer any of my previous posts and it’s obvious you still miss the critical point that the Bible is simply a compilation of written works developed by none other than the Orthodox Church. The Bible speaks not of its own authority but rather leads men to salvation through the Church because She is the pillar and ground of truth. The Church is the Body with Christ as its Head; the two are inseparable. There’s only one correct interpretation of the Bible and who better to decipher any passage therein than the Church itself.

St. Peter writes in his second epistle, 1:20, “No prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” The important context of those holy men of God is that they lived within the framework of the chosen people of God, whether Israel or the Church. So it is in the Church, through the Church that the Scriptures are understood. Quit deluding yourself into believing, “well, it’s unclear to me from scriptures that homosexuality is wrong, so it must be ok”. If you choose to continue with your own personal, private interpretations, do so at your own risk.

As an Orthodox Christian participating in the life of the true Church, I firmly profess that homosexuality is a grave sin according to not only the Bible, but the Fathers of the Church and all the successors to the Apostles as well. Generation after generation of new Orthodox clergymen being instructed in the teachings of Christ and the Twelve Apostles, who all bear the same Faith, testimony, and theological doctrines over the last 2000 years and YOU have the audacity to accuse others of preaching another gospel because your OWN interpretation of scriptures is defective? Gimme a break…

[quote]100meters wrote:
Paul certainly had the ability to use very clear language to condemn consentual homosexual relations, but NEVER does, nor does Jesus for that matter. You have to be careful about preaching a different gospel.[/quote]

Take your own advice dude!
And before you rant off about how Jesus Christ and St. Paul don’t condemn homosexuality, show me one single reference from the Bible where either of them CONDONE this heinous sin.

By the way, Jesus Christ & St. Paul CLEARLY express in the Bible that the union of a couple is designed to be between a MAN and a WOMAN. That is why the Christian Church has never married homosexuals for the last 2000 years. Gay marriage is a new phenomenon and has only been revolutionized by 21st century heretics. Quite bold marrying same sex couples when God Himself instructed man on the proper marital structure.

Also like to point out how you evaded a previous post inquiring about how homosexuals buttf*cking each other is an act of love acceptable to God since God Himself CLEARLY expressed that sexual relations are reserved for people unified in marriage. Being that marriage is a sacrament strictly reserved for a MAN and a WOMAN, I think homosexuals run into one serious dilemma!

[quote]100meters wrote:
Matthew9v9 wrote:
ToShinDo wrote:
I don’t consider gays (in general) to be perverts.

It doesn’t really matter what you consider perverted when it comes down to the wire.

Now go look up Romans 1 and start rationalizing it away.
So right, except Romans 1 has nothing to do with gays, and you should consider Jesus’ one commandment.

[/quote]

Is that right? Hmmm…interesting.
Romans 1 addressing idolatry, agreed. But then again, Romans 1:
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

That’s not discussing homosexuality??? Okay, what is it then, kneedlepoint? I simply disagree with you there. But I wouldn’t go so far as to say that our disagreement is over an essential of salvation. You may not see that Scripture (Rom 1:26-27) as concerned with homosexuality, but I disagree, and I’d still call you “brother”.

Clarify this for me, “Jesus’ ONE commandment” (emphasis mine)? Um, I’m sure you weren’t implying that He only commanded one thing, right?

Wouldn’t you say that He also commanded the Apostles to go and spread the Gospel (as in Matt 28)? That’s a commandment. How about love God (one commandment) and love your neighbor (another…that’s 3 already).
In fact, that last one was phrased “A NEW command” suggesting that there was another in the past.

Loving your neighbor does not imply that you have to accept everything they do, that isn’t “love.”

To speak the Truth in love is to tell someone when they are wrong such that they will repent and be forgiven so they aren’t continuously rebelling against God.

This is also a way of loving your neighbor.

I agree it is about grace, but Paul is explicit that we are to OBEY based on our faith in Christ. He calls us by Grace, we respond with obedience (do NOT read “works” into that). Do you disagree?

Matt

(BTW, The Grace Awakening by Swindoll is a balanced treatment of the grace/works debate if you are interested in his stuff.)

[quote]100meters wrote:
So right, except Romans 1 has nothing to do with gays, and you should consider Jesus’ one commandment.
[/quote]

Wow, if Jesus Christ only gave us one simple commandment to fulfill, but we know He doesn’t. He gives a laundry list of commandments that we must heed if we are to achieve salvation.

No offense, but your angle to Christian theology reminds me of some newbies on this site who log in, read one article on a particular training scheme, and think you’ll achieve successful results from only focusing on one aspect of the equation. You’ll neglect proper nutrition, proper recovery, and proper sleep but delude yourself into believing that you have the recipe for success. Get a grip!

Here’s something to contemplate. Why not follow ALL of Christ’s commands!

[quote]100meters wrote:

It’s almost too funny that you’d dare to post material conservatives like american spectator won’t even touch! What’s next posting info from Timothy J. Daily? MY GOD! You dared to post this nut’s “findings” too. Have you read his kooky booklet from the FRC? (The Bible and Homosexuality)Here’s a tip to readers–The bible doesn’t say squat about homosexuality, so has anybody from FRC ever read the bible? A thinking man would have to say NO! Next question has Stellar read the bible? Again it seems impossible to square stellar’s logic with the intent of Christ.

[/quote]

I appreciate your tenacity, but you really should kill the motor on the ad hominems…it doesn’t help your case much.

Matt

[quote]100meters wrote:
OY! The context is leviticus! the word for abomination is use only in regards to rituals of the pagan variety in this case it was heterosexual men sleeping with other heterosexual men in pagan rituals. Not that Leviticus matters in the least to Christians but still.[/quote]

You gotta be kidding… What heretical denomination are you involved with? The Old Testament holds equal weight to the New Testament in the Christian Faith as both covenants were inspired by the same divine authority. And I still disagree with your sloppy interpretation of Leviticus. The Orthodox Church (est. 33 AD) has always endorsed the literal word-for-word meaning of this passage with no room for complex explanations such as the ones you provide.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Jesus gives stellar ONE single commandment and Stellar is baffled and dazed at what love one another(that’s everybody with no exceptions listed) as I have loved you(that’s unconditionally).[/quote]

Are we going over this again? I already explained that in accordance with true Christian teaching, Jesus preaches that we must all love one another in the context of AGAPE, not EROS. He never commanded men to go buttf*cking other men or develop sexual attraction for other members of the same gender. If you believe the latter, you have some seriously warped interpretations of the Bible & the Christian Faith.

[quote]
Readers note that if Jesus wanted to say something about homosexuals, oral sex, and everything else Jesus could have mentioned it in his ONE commandment. But Jesus never says a word about these things. Also note in the samaritan parable the good neighbor was the samaritan, who were outcasts, pagans, and frowned upon. Stellar…it’s time to quickly return to your bible studies and read the good news![/quote]

Sure dude, but hasn’t anyone told ya the Bible is more than half-a-page long? You cling to one verse and attempt to justify all sorts of sins which Jesus Christ and His Church have been condemning since 33 AD.

Here’s one passage your half-page Bible might not contain:
St. John 5:5-14
Now a certain man was there who had an infirmity thirty-eight years. When Jesus saw him lying there, and knew that he had been in that condition a long time, He said to Him, “Do you want to be made well?” The sick man answered Him, “Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; but while I am coming, another steps down before me.” Jesus said to him, “Rise, take up your bed and walk.” And immediately the man was made well, took up his bed, and walked. And that day was the Sabbath.

The Jews therefore said to him who was cured, “It is the Sabbath; it is not lawful for you to carry your bed.” He answered them, “He who made me well said to me, ‘Take up your bed and walk.’” Then they asked him, “Who is the Man who said to you, ‘Take up your bed and walk.’” But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, a multitude being in that place.
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.”

Pay close attention to Christ’s command attached with a warning. “Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.” Sounds like quite an important command to “sin no more” if the retribution for sinning again would be a worse fate than paralysis in the case of this 38 year old ex-paralytic.

St. Matthew 5:29
“If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into hell.”

Although this is a metaphorical passage, Christ harshly underlines the devastating impact of sin and uses a dramatic analogy to express how we should abstain from sins at all costs.

*Just a side note, the Orthodox Church also uses this passage to emphasize the need for excommunications when absolutely necessary (similar to the Roman Catholic Church) so that unrepentant sinners who are corrupting the Body of Christ by preaching heresy do not steer other members of the Church towards a devious path. When there is a substantial risk of sabotaging the entire community of the faithful, especially with churches that many new converts attend, the heretic is excommunicated and forfeits his blessing as a member of Christ’s Body. The excommunication draws a sharp line in the sand so-to-speak, so that the faithful will recognize right from wrong. It is compassionate in this regard not only to the remaining members of the Body, but also to the dissentor. The Church continues to pray for the heretic to come back to his ‘spiritual senses’ but will not compromise the spiritual health of its flock.

An unrepentant sinner, whether homosexual or otherwise, who diligently persists in heresy, is eventually excommunicated at the discretion of the bishop of the church. This may seem like a foreign concept to many of you from contemporary Christian denominations but follow up with some research on the early Church and I bet you’ll be amazed.

Peace be with you all!

this thread has gone off track, heres a comment.

If all theologans dissapeared tommorrow, what in real terms would be lost? what would dissapear with them that wasn’t already there or self evident?

I would hasten to say nothing, but others may dissagree

My rant is people are using their biases and inserting them in the bible. Homosexuality is at no point ever mentioned in the bible. EVER. There are several stories of homosexual relations in the Bible—again David and Jonathan being the most obvious, none of them condemned! Jesus certainly never says anything about homosexuality, but your logic is becauses he didn’t say to do it, then it’s a sin. I don’t remember Jesus talking about 10 sets of 3 either, yet still I workout this way. Jesus’ intents are very clear, but still you seem baffled, and are following the words of others, again something warned against by Jesus. There is no more dilemna for homos than there is for you, remember the comments on judging? Remember the parable? Now try to live it.

[quote]miniross wrote:
this thread has gone off track, heres a comment.

If all theologans dissapeared tommorrow, what in real terms would be lost? what would dissapear with them that wasn’t already there or self evident?

I would hasten to say nothing, but others may dissagree[/quote]

No one would exist. Everyone thinks ABOUT (note, I did not say “thinks there is a”) God in some way, whether that is that the Christian/Jewish God is true, the pantheists, deists, or even ATHEIST which have no belief (often, they think more about God than the others because they discuss their lack of belief so readily on forums…ehem).

JMO,
Matt

[quote]100meters wrote:
My rant is people are using their biases and inserting them in the bible. Homosexuality is at no point ever mentioned in the bible. EVER. There are several stories of homosexual relations in the Bible[/quote]

Wait, first it’s not mentioned EVER, then you bring up that there are stories of it. That’s a contradiction. Nice logic.

[quote]—again David and Jonathan being the most obvious,
[/quote]
David and Jonathan in a homosexual relationship? Wow. Okay, now I know WHERE you are coming from, and it isn’t good.

Equivocation.

You obviously don’t understand what is meant by “judging” others. We have a right standard set by God. If someone, including oneself, doesn’t meet that standard, it should be pointed out. Judging another by a standard that we have set is what is wrong, including if we engage in the same sin. For example, a person that’s cheating on their wife (sex outside of God’s plan for marriage) shouldn’t be condemning toward homosexuals (sex outside of God’s plan for marriage).

However, we are encouraged to ‘correct and rebuke’. You should READ the bible and not ONLY books by ultra-liberal “scholars.”

You claim that basically all of Christiandom is biased, yet your bias against Jesus’ teaching against perverse acts and other sin, as well as your bias TOWARD homosexuality, is very self-evident.

I’m sure you don’t see it that way, however. As we are instructed, warn once, warn a second time, if they continue in their willfull sin, cast them out. (Gee, I wonder what is meant by warning someone? Hmm, warn them of WHAT?..perhaps their willfull disobediance?)

Good bye, sir.

Matt

Matthew, StellarHorizon, lumpy,

I actually worship two gods. I didn’t want to tell you about the second God because I feared that everyone would become as virile as myself.

His name is Min.

I found a good description and a fine picture on www.touregypt.net/featurestories/min.thm.

Make sure you go to that site. Your life may depend upon it.

Let me quote:

“Min (Menew, Amsu) was one of the Egyptian gods worshiped from predynastic times. The earliest forms of the god - his fetish - was of a barbed arrow or a thunderbolt.”

Me.

“(The strange arrow, over time, became the first hieroglyph, the one above the standard, in his name - )”

Of course.

“A Gerzean palette known as the El Amrah Palette also had a second name, the Min Palette, because it had the symbol of the fertility god on it. Unlike in the hieroglyph, this looks more like a double-ended arrow (on a hook).”

Remember the double-ended arrow. It’s important.

“Another piece from El Amrah (near Abtu (Abydos)) was an ivory statuette of a man that stood with his legs together, his arms at his sides and an erect penis.”

Me.

“This, too, was probably another early representation of the god. The predynastic ruler, the Scorpion King, was believed to have worshiped both Min and Set.”

If the Scorpion King is on your side, you are going somewhere!!!

“Gebtu (Koptos) was Min’s cult centre from the earliest times. Later, he was associated with Akhmim (Panopolis).”

Min and Akhim were tight.

“Min was always a god of fertility and sexuality.”

I’m a God of fertility and sexuality.

“He was shown as a human male with an erect penis.”

Me.

“In Egyptian times, he was usually an ithyphallic bearded mummiform man, standing with both legs together, an arm raised holding his symbol or a flail and wearing the same low crown with twin plumes as Amen. (The way he holds his flail might be symbolic of sexual intercourse - the flail forms the V while his upraised forearm seems to thrust inside the V.)”

Can anything be more erotic than hieroglyphical porn?

“The Egyptian paintings and reliefs on tomb walls and temples didn’t show Min’s other arm, but the statues of the god show him with his hand encircling the base of his penis.”

More me when he has to use both hands to encircle.

“During New Kingdom times he was sometimes shown as a white bull, an animal sacred to the fertility god.”

I can hear POX thinking, “A WHITE BULL? Nothing scares white people more than a loud, angry BLACK BULL!!!”

“… Min, Bull of the Great Phallus,
…”

Me.

“You are the Great Male, the owner of all females.”

Also me.

“The Bull who is unites with those of the sweet love, of beautiful face and of painted eyes,”

Does this include Tammy Faye Baker?

“Victorious sovereign among the Gods who inspires fear in the Ennead.
…”

I’ve been known to scare the shit out of the Ennead.

“The goddesses are glad, seeing your perfection.
– Hymn to Min”

As well they should be.

"He was associated with the Egyptian cos lettuce - an aphrodisiac to the ancient Egyptians because the lettuce was tall, straight and secreted a milky substance when pressed! (This was also a favourite food of Set.)

I always thought Set was a pervert.

“Min was often shown standing before offering tables, covered with heads of lettuce.”

Isn’t that clever!!!

"The fertility god was associated both with Horus the Elder (Min-Horus)

Hertefore, I shall be referred to as Min-JeffR.

“in the Middle Kingdom and with Amen (Amen-Min)”

Ahhhh.

“in New Kingdom times to show the creative force of both gods. At times, even some goddesses have been shown with the body of Min!”

No body has MY body!!!

Thanks!!!

JeffR

[quote]100meters wrote:
My rant is people are using their biases and inserting them in the bible. Homosexuality is at no point ever mentioned in the bible. EVER.
[/quote]

On the Bible:
Nobody is inserting anything that isn’t already there. The Bible mentions several passages that refer to the sin of homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13, Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:26) in a literal word-for-word meaning but you continue to ascribe to your own private interpretations, even though the Bible itself warns against doing so. The interpretations I’ve posted are congruent with those of the Orthodox Christian Church (est. 33 AD). And just so that you may not accuse ME of forming MY own interpretations on these passages, I recommend you consult with an Orthodox Christian priest.

*Orthodox Christian priests are appointed based upon the early church rule of Apostolic succession. That is, they have been ordained by at least 2 bishops who have direct lineage to the Twelve Apostles. Likewise, Apostolic succession requires that the 2 bishops who conduct the sacrament of ordination have not fallen victim to heresy and profess the Christian Faith EXACTLY as they learned it from them who they were ordained by. In this manner, the Orthodox priest must spread the Christian Faith EXACTLY as he learned it from those of the former generation. Eventually, that priest may be promoted to the rank of bishop where he may be given the opportunity to ordain future priests (given that there will be a second bishop alongside him to conduct the sacrament). If an Orthodox priest or bishop falls victim to heresy, even though they trace their lineage back to the Twelve Apostles and Jesus Christ Himself, they still must be deposed because they strayed from Apostolic teaching and are no longer endowed with the gift of ordaining any future clergy. In this manner, (1)the Christian Faith is preserved with an air-tight seal regarding all doctrines, and (2)the interpretation of scriptures is remarkably preserved within the Orthodox Christian Faith.

On the Christian Faith:
I’ve said this numerous times but I’ll say it again because you keep evading my strong points. The Bible does NOT encompass the entirety of the Christian Faith or the entire Christian lifestyle. That is what the Church is for. The Bible does not testify of itself - it testifies of the Church. Jesus Christ taught the Twelve Apostles so many angles on the righteous lifestyle, ways to fast, rules of conduct, etc. which are not given a detailed account of within the Bible. WHY NOT you may ask. Well, for starters, as the Bible itself says, if someone wrote down everything that Christ said and did, not even the entire world would be able to sustain all such books.

Here’s something else to consider. The Church was begun in 33 AD but the earliest scripture recorded in the Bible is dated to 52 AD (one of St. Paul’s epistles). So for almost 2 decades Christ had ascended into heaven leaving humanity with no New Testament for instruction. What did people use for instruction, where did people go for answers? The Church of’ course! During this time, the people were instructed in all matters of the Christian Faith by the Apostles and those whom the Apostles appointed through the sacrament of ordination (Timothy, Titus, & Barnabas being prime examples of Christians appointed to the ranks of the clergy). The Christian Faith was taught verbally for almost 2 decades, EXACTLY in the manner by which Jesus Christ preached to the multitudes. He didn’t transmit the Christian Faith in writing, He orally expressed the path to salvation. Similarly, the Bible itself staunchly reminds Christians to stand fast to the traditions which the Apostles taught, whether by WORD or by epistle.

The Orthodox Church has been condemning homosexuality in both oral AND written confessions for the past 2000 years - Apostolic succession. The Church existed before the Bible. Unlike many heretical so-called churches produced as a result of the Bible, the true Church not only existed BEFORE the Bible, but created and compiled the Bible which unfortunately so many confused souls (cough 100meters) sadly misinterpret. And again, please refer to early Church manuscripts pertaining to the grave sin of homosexuality for more details (and the specific canons forbidding this heinous sin as included in my prior post).

You’re deluded in a whirlwind of heresy and unless you repent, great ills shall fall upon you. Your accusations against King David are unjustifiable and hypocritical to say the least. You are the first person I’ve ever heard say that, and although I laughed when I first read that, I truly pity you.

Only God can judge us, and He judges us according to how well we fought to abide by His commandments. True Christians can discern the nature of sin and are expected to judge right from wrong before doing. For others who struggle with the Faith, or do not have a competent understanding of it, true Christians are supposed to intercede and instruct these confused souls in the proper ways of Christ and His Church.

Let us not be blind guides in such matters, for Jesus Christ says:
“Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”

“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.”

“If you love Me, keep my commandments.”

“He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is He who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and I abide in His love.”

Like I said before, there’s a laundry list of commandments which Christ declares His followers to abide by and the act of loving one another is just ONE of MANY… and the love (AGAPE) Christ speaks of here is not EROS, so stop insinuating that homosexuals are given permission to go buttf*cking eachother! The lawless who fail to repent shall be condemned to eternal damnation.

“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!”

JeffR,
What a ridiculous waste of space. If you were joking, I didn’t find your post comical at all. Go hijack another thread…

[quote]Matthew9v9 wrote:
ToShinDo wrote:
I don’t consider gays (in general) to be perverts.

It doesn’t really matter what you consider perverted when it comes down to the wire.

Now go look up Romans 1 and start rationalizing it away.[/quote]

For me, that would be like rationalizing a fairy tale.