@kgoggs
There’s quite a few guys whose SHBG is in the 9-20 range on 500+mg that feel great. The SHBG thing is overblown. @unreal24278 has the lowest SHBG I’ve seen posted and he’s on twice what you take doing once a week shots with none of the issues. You’re problem is your bf%.
Dude, you need to listen to your doctor if you’re paying him. Otherwise switch to another.
People on a forum are not doctors and you will find several different opinions on the same matters.
And believe me, whatever anyone would say here, there’s not one protocol that fits everyone.
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You’re right, but I’m not taking an AI. I also don’t have labs for any dosage in between 100mg and 150mg. For all we know, my E2 was still at 40 until I hit a certain TT level and converted a bunch of the extra T that my body didn’t need. I thinks it’s fair to give his lower dose a try. So I’ll be doing daily doses of 110mg a week, down from 150mg a week. At least I’ll be following some of his advice, and can get labs and see how I’m feeling at that point.
I decided not to go against my doctor, and at least consult with him first. I told him I didn’t want to take the AI, and he wants me to try nandrolone. I created another post asking about nandrolone info if anyone knows about it. Before we switch to that, I am gonna ask him about lower dosing, and let him know 50mg a week worked for me when I was younger, and see what he thinks before we switch to a whole new thing. I’ll update later after my consultation today.
I have zero experience with nandrolone, but isn’t it “deca” and causes ED issues?
II think if i were you, i’d get back to what works. Or at least talk to Dr. about it more. You may just need less test.
I’m gonna talk to doc about it, the consult is for more information on it. I read in that link @highpull provided that taking test cypionate along with nandrolone can aleviate ED issues. I don’t know if the doc is gonna recommend it alongside Test or what. Maybe like 50mg of test a week and then some amount of nandrolone? It says nandrolone suppresses testosterone but I think it was referring to natural production. Also in other places I’ve read it can help lower estradiol levels which is why he recommended it. The two biggest things I got from the article, is that it can cause ED and it stimulates muscle alot more than normal test. It’s pretty experimental, so if it works, I could be ahead of the pack in a sense, getting benefits that other people on test cyp alone may not be getting due to its muscle stimulating ability. I could also go in the opposite direction and it be a flop. I’m definitley interested, the muscle thing sounds great, and building muscle alone would make me feel better, decrease e2 and increase test. May be worth a shot, I’ll let you guys know what doc says about it, and ask him if they’ve had success with other patients.
Pun intended?
Well i’m sure highpull has some experience to share.
I’m not sure about it being experimental. Going back to the '70s, nandrolone was routinely used in an AAS/PED program. It’s anabolic vs androgenic effects were what made it popular. Of course, oral anabolics were also used. It was common to start with one or two oral, like Dianabol (always), with Winstrol, Maxibolin, or Anavar, and nandrolone. Everyone took Dianabol and if one injectable was used, it was nandrolone (Deca Durabolin or Durabolin 50). As testosterone levels dropped, we would add testosterone injections after about three to four weeks in. Starting dose for test was 200mg a week and some stayed with that, usually the guys in lighter weight classes, and some increased it from there.
Once reaching a higher competition level, two to three orals with two to three injectables were pretty standard. It was not unlike the cold war in that you would try to keep up with the competition and there was somewhat of a more is better mindset.
Fast forward to today, some TRT practitioners use nandrolone. I’m not sure I would consider it part of TRT. Guys I have given it to are those responding well to TRT, increasing strength and gaining muscle, plus the other benefits, but while they are making some gains, they are being held back due to joint conditions. I’m also sure some are simply looking for more muscle. It is not given long term.
Generally, the benefits for joint pain are almost too good to be true for some guys. As for side effects, dyslipidemia and ED (they do call it “deca dick” for a reason) stand out, with both resolving once it is discontinued.
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I’m not sure what his plan is then If it isn’t meant to be long term, because I’ll be on TRT forever. Maybe he will prescribe a super low dose, or tell me to use it temporarily to bulk up and lose some weight, so I’ll aromatize less on Test cyp alone? We just touched on it briefly, today we will go in depth and I’ll bring up my concerns. I’ll tell him I did alot of research on the ED issues and I was very worried about it, and ask him if people use it long term, etc. I’ll make sure to get all the answers. It’s through defy medical, they do have a pretty good reputation, I don’t think they would do something to permanently hurt me, or anything like that.
Just finished my consultation, I told him I didn’t want the AI. I asked him about my E2 again, and even brought up the experiences of people on the forum with E2, (he knows about tnation, and isn’t an ass about me bringing it up) and still says due to my SHBG it’s gonna have to be lower. He recommended taking 0.05mL of test cyp, which will drop my E2, and add 0.05mL of nandrolone. We discussed the potential side effects, my biggest fear being “deca dick”. He assured me that’s its very rare with doses of 100mg or less, (mine should be less than 100mg) I don’t know the strength of the deca yet, but I’m guessing it’s gonna also be around 200mg per mL (?) the reason I felt better at 50mg and 100mg versus higher doses is the E2. This is what the doctor is telling me, so it’s what I’m going with. That also could be awesome news for me, because if I’m able to go higher than 50mg and not raise my E2 too much, I could be on track to feel better than I ever have. He thinks that just reducing my test dose alone would probably do the trick, but he knows I’m over weight and want to lose and build muscle, so he’s adding the bit of nandrolone to help me out (as long as it works, and I don’t get deca dick). So this is my protocol for 8 weeks, I’ll update as I see changes. Wish me luck.
The doc recommended 0.07 mL a day which comes out to 98 mg a week… My E2 was still too high at 100mg, which I brought up, and his response was that the levels don’t change in a linear way. Is 2mg less a week really enough to lower my E2 by a good amount? Really doesn’t sound like it, maybe he misspoke or I misunderstood?
No, but maybe he is thinking lowering the dose to 14mg per injection and going to every day dosing will. I don’t know, you’d have to ask him for his rationale. You were on every other day, correct?
No, I’ve been on dailies for a long time now, I’ll call him today and make sure he realizes that’s still 98mg a week, and at 100mg a week my E2 was still high. I may wait actually, he only wanted me to do that until I get my nandrolone next week, then I’ll be dropping to 0.05 which is 70mg a week. If nandrolone doesn’t work out and gives me ED or any other effect I’ll find out then.
OK, sorry, I have no explanation then. Good idea to make the call.
When lowering dosage, am I looking at the same 6-8 week time line for results? Or do Test and e2 levels drop quicker than they rise on TRT?
Still working on losing weight, my end goal is to hopefully get to my healthy weight (180 pounds). I’m hoping this will stop the armotization so I can take more test with less E2. I was diagnosed with pretty bad ADD this past week, and prescribed aderall. I’m gonna try and use it to help lose weight as well. Also after lowering my dose, I’ve become way less hungry, and my acne is getting alot better. I’m guessing it’s because my T levels are decreasing, but I don’t feel better or worse. After taking aderall yesterday I could have gone all day without eating, hopefully I keep this effect. I’m so ready for gyms to open back up, so I can go start working out. Every store around me is sold out of the cheaper bench sets and dumbells, all they have are really high end machines that are like 600$+.
Greetings,
My bad if I missed it, but what is your current age? Height and weight? Not sure if it has been stated specifically but a higher body fat will lead to higher E2 aromatizion, I believe, anybody feel free to correct me.
And why were you prescribed adderall? What lead to your PCP or whoever to check for ADD?
If you can afford that 600$ set might want to go for it, not sure how through it’ll be. But gyms are not gonna open up for a while, at least I think. I’ve been debating whether I need a KB set. You might want to weigh the pros and cons on that one.
I understand that your on 98mg, so that comes out to 14mg daily, which you said you were doing dailies now.
But in the past it was 100mg per week, and also dailies then? If so how did you split the 100mg in dailies? 14.28mg? Or am I mistaken and you were taking E3D or something other than dailies?
Keep going for the 8 weeks on the current protocol.
Stay strong
All my protocols over the past year nearly have been daily. I was doing 100mg for a few months, then 150mg for a few months, and now I’m taking 70mg of test cyp along with 70mg of nandralone deconate. I’m 23, I’m 6’1 and I’m 250 pounds, I’m really overweight I know. When I went from 100mg to 150mg I gained 40 pounds… I still believe the e2 spike screwed my metabolism and motivation, and the extra T made me hungrier so it was a bad combo. As far as the ADD, my dad had it as a kid and adult. In school I got in trouble a ton and constantly had teachers recommending my mother have me tested, but she was scared of the ADD drugs, so she never had me tested. As I’ve grown I’ve started to notice more how it affects my work and relationships so I decided it was time to get help. You are correct about increased e2 when you’ve got more fat. What I would like to do, is at least get my levels somewhat balanced, so I can lose a bit easier and have more energy. When I get down to my proper body weight, I want to increase my dose, and see if my E2 will stay lower. I’m not trying to optimize right now, because I know that until I get in better shape that won’t happen. I’m just trying to get to a point where I feel well enough and more motivated to lose the weight. The lower Test dose definitley made me less hungry, plus the Adderall is curbing my appetite even more, I’m gonna try and take advantage of that. I’m gonna do a low calorie diet til I hit 220, which is where I go from the “obese” to just “overweight”. Then I’ll switch to a more normal diet, aiming to lose 2 pounds a week til I hit my goal.
Greetings,
Okay, keep up updated.
Stay strong
I just read a few interesting articles about low SHBG. One of them was saying that low SHBG mitigates the effect of aromatization in men (don’t know exactly how?). The interesting part though, was that at a certain threshold (testosterone dosage) there is so much aromatization happening, that it counteracts the mitigation that the low SHBG had. I’m wondering if this was the reason that I felt good on just 50mg a week. I also did a bit more research on nandrolone and found some articles that don’t agree with mixing the 2. Nandrolone converts to some type of estrone, which is much weaker than E2. The article says when you add Test cypionate, it converts the estrone into estradiol, which kind of eliminates the purpose for which I’m using it (higher test levels with less E2). Any one have any thoughts or experience on this?