Keylogger Recommendations?

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121

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]randomonymous wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]randomonymous wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]randomonymous wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

If that’s the case get a god damned lawyer. That leverage may not be worth anything if you got it illegally.

[/quote]

Am getting a lawyer here in the next few days. I found out that she has an appointment to see one here is a few weeks. Maybe I can beat her to the punch.[/quote]

I don’t know how big your city is, but it might be worth it to make appts to get consults at the 3 or 5 best divorce attornys in your area. Once you’ve spoken to them, they can’t represent your wife.
[/quote]
Yeah that’s good advice. A friend of mine mentioned that to me last night. I had assumed it was just one of those urban legends or something. Guess not. Although, I am wondering how she can even afford an attorney. [/quote]

You’ll be covering that after a pendente lite hearing.
[/quote]

Yes, you will be paying for both sides most likely as it comes out of the marital estate. Dr. Pangloss has been spot on on pretty much everything he has said, although I would qualify that you don’t always want to DQ the “best” lawyer in a generic sense, but it might be a good idea to try and DQ aggressive lawyers who are going to run up the bill or they will bleed you dry. Having a good lawyer on the other side isn’t always a bad thing if they are both ethical and reasonable. Those lawyers do exist, but they are sometimes hard to come by in family law. Also, the DQ tactic probably isn’t necessary unless there is a substantial estate to split up. Big estates are what attracts the sharks.

The other caveat is sometimes you run into a “true believer” lawyer who just wants to grudge fuck the man at all costs, but you won’t get an opportunity to interview these for DQ purposes because they tend to only represent women.

[/quote]
honestly…not very much estate to split up…just debt(for medical reasons, we are not spendthrifts…probably one of the reasons she wants out. any tips with that in mind?[/quote]

You might not want to hear this but if debt is the biggest issue you probably want to talk to a bankruptcy lawyer just to see what your options are.
[/quote]
makes sense. thanks man.

122

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
This is the truth. 2 attorneys at 400/hour being in and out of court senselessly fighting can hit 100,000 really really quick.[/quote]

Family lawyers tend to get the asset list and work backwards on the litigation plan. If, for example, the marital estate has access to $500,000 in assets that are liquid or can be made liquid, its pretty easy to come up with a litigation plan that supports $250,000 in fees to both lawfirms. [/quote]

That is rough. Very similar situation happened to a good friend of my dad’s.

Where did you attend law school jj?

123

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
This is the truth. 2 attorneys at 400/hour being in and out of court senselessly fighting can hit 100,000 really really quick.[/quote]

Family lawyers tend to get the asset list and work backwards on the litigation plan. If, for example, the marital estate has access to $500,000 in assets that are liquid or can be made liquid, its pretty easy to come up with a litigation plan that supports $250,000 in fees to both lawfirms. [/quote]

That is rough. Very similar situation happened to a good friend of my dad’s.

Where did you attend law school jj?[/quote]

U of San Diego.

124

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]randomonymous wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]randomonymous wrote:

[quote]TheKraken wrote:

If that’s the case get a god damned lawyer. That leverage may not be worth anything if you got it illegally.

[/quote]

Am getting a lawyer here in the next few days. I found out that she has an appointment to see one here is a few weeks. Maybe I can beat her to the punch.[/quote]

I don’t know how big your city is, but it might be worth it to make appts to get consults at the 3 or 5 best divorce attornys in your area. Once you’ve spoken to them, they can’t represent your wife.
[/quote]
Yeah that’s good advice. A friend of mine mentioned that to me last night. I had assumed it was just one of those urban legends or something. Guess not. Although, I am wondering how she can even afford an attorney. [/quote]

You’ll be covering that after a pendente lite hearing.
[/quote]

Yes, you will be paying for both sides most likely as it comes out of the marital estate. Dr. Pangloss has been spot on on pretty much everything he has said, although I would qualify that you don’t always want to DQ the “best” lawyer in a generic sense, but it might be a good idea to try and DQ aggressive lawyers who are going to run up the bill or they will bleed you dry. Having a good lawyer on the other side isn’t always a bad thing if they are both ethical and reasonable. Those lawyers do exist, but they are sometimes hard to come by in family law. Also, the DQ tactic probably isn’t necessary unless there is a substantial estate to split up. Big estates are what attracts the sharks.

The other caveat is sometimes you run into a “true believer” lawyer who just wants to grudge fuck the man at all costs, but you won’t get an opportunity to interview these for DQ purposes because they tend to only represent women.
[/quote]

Just to add to the DQ topic, a lot of the top attorneys have now changed their intake procedures to combat the DQ tactic. They will have you go through a questionnaire and speak with a paralegal or other non-attorney at the firm first so they won’t receive any confidential information that would create a conflict. Some of the state bar associations have also changed their professional conduct rules to curb the DQ tactic.

125

My understanding is that alimony and child support obligations carry through in a bankruptcy. With that in mind, you should lean towards taking on more of the debt if it means you can negotiate lower/no alimony and child support. Then you just declare bankruptcy and all is good (other than the fact that your credit sucks).

126

I know a couple in my home state (NM) who got together and amicably decided how to divide assets. They were older with no minor children and no debt, so this might be harder to do in your case, but they basically took a friend’s divorce paperwork and used it as a template to draw up their own papers. Neither of them was trying to put the screws to the other person. As I recall, it was very basic in terms of having an attorney look it over, make any amendments, and have it all properly filed. At least the lawyers didn’t take a big chunk of their estate.

Just thinking about what jjack and Doc have said. The above example might not work for you, but I’d attempt to be amicable about working the details out ahead of time. Especially since you are going to continue to raise kids. Maybe that implies more trust and the ability to wish the other well than exists here.

We know someone who got divorced under similar circumstances to yours. There were four minor children. The wife was having an affair, and quickly remarried. They shared custody when the kids were young, but as the kids got older, they ALL began spending nearly all their time at the dad’s home. Pretty soon they were all living with him. As kids get older, they often dictate where they will be, regardless of what the paperwork says.

I once had the unpleasant experience of sitting in family court with an acquaintance who was embroiled in a child custody dispute. It was the ugliest thing I have ever seen. The place just felt dark. You couldn’t pay me enough to practice that kind of law. Sorry if this offends anybody, but is struck me as a soul sucking job. I came home and told The Mister, “Let’s promise to never to that to each other!!”

127

We’ve thought about getting divorced a few times, but neither of us wants the kids.

:slight_smile:

128

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
We’ve thought about getting divorced a few times, but neither of us wants the kids.

[/quote]

fixed

129

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
We’ve thought about getting divorced a few times, but neither of us wants the kids.

[/quote]

fixed
[/quote]

I can’t tell a joke without laughing before the punchline, and apparently I can’t tell a joke online without putting up a smiley.

I’ve told that one before, but it’s a good one.

130

OP:

It takes two to get along.

It takes only one to make things ugly.

While your focus on the welfare of your kids is admirable, it is also a weakness she can (and most likely will), exploit.

As long as you are not willing to walk away, walk away from all of it, the way things are, she can always use your kids against you.

Unless you are willing to live a life where she uses your kids against you in a hostage taking scenario, at least pretend to not give a fuck.

Yeah, that is kind of fucked up.

131

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:
We’ve thought about getting divorced a few times, but neither of us wants the kids.

[/quote]

fixed
[/quote]

I can’t tell a joke without laughing before the punchline, and apparently I can’t tell a joke online without putting up a smiley.

I’ve told that one before, but it’s a good one.
[/quote]

I think it funny because it is true to an extent most people would not care to admit.

132

OP,

I hope that you are, as you claim, the angelic victim in all this.

Obviously, in some marriages one person is a monster who deserves to occupy that special circle in hell.

Is that the case with your wife…? All I have to go on is what you’ve stated and implied.

Just so you know, I’ve never been married (although the Gf and I are at that stage where such discussions are inevitable). And I’m not in family law or any other type.

I’ve seen four good friends go through nasty separations (in two cases, the wife was accused of infidelity). And I’ve worked with family attorneys on unrelated matters. From what I’ve seen, in what is admittedly a small sample size, and from what these attorneys have told me, it’s not always black and white.

If you are, however, genuinely honest, then you have my apologies and I wish you the best of luck.

133

[quote]orion wrote:
OP:

It takes two to get along.

It takes only one to make things ugly.

While your focus on the welfare of your kids is admirable, it is also a weakness she can (and most likely will), exploit.

As long as you are not willing to walk away, walk away from all of it, the way things are, she can always use your kids against you.

Unless you are willing to live a life where she uses your kids against you in a hostage taking scenario, at least pretend to not give a fuck.

Yeah, that is kind of fucked up. [/quote]

This is not another “who cares least wins.” Your take on it is entirely fucked up.

134

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
OP:

It takes two to get along.

It takes only one to make things ugly.

While your focus on the welfare of your kids is admirable, it is also a weakness she can (and most likely will), exploit.

As long as you are not willing to walk away, walk away from all of it, the way things are, she can always use your kids against you.

Unless you are willing to live a life where she uses your kids against you in a hostage taking scenario, at least pretend to not give a fuck.

Yeah, that is kind of fucked up. [/quote]

This is not another “who cares least wins.” Your take on it is entirely fucked up.

[/quote]
There are 2 ways to take Orion’s point of view. Initially i read it as a “don’t care about it, that is the best revenge, just walk away from EVERYTHING(including the kids”. If that is the intent of what he is saying, then I respectfully but 100% DISAGREE with that being the only solution. Plus it would destroy everything I am trying to build for and show my daughters, which is unconditional love. Now the second way to take it, with me being optimistic of Orions intent in his message, I hope he meant be willing to walk away from all the material stuff, and the wife, so she has no leverage, since the courts will decide upon custody, not her.

135

[quote]56x11 wrote:
OP,

I hope that you are, as you claim, the angelic victim in all this.

Obviously, in some marriages one person is a monster who deserves to occupy that special circle in hell.

Is that the case with your wife…? All I have to go on is what you’ve stated and implied.

Just so you know, I’ve never been married (although the Gf and I are at that stage where such discussions are inevitable). And I’m not in family law or any other type.

I’ve seen four good friends go through nasty separations (in two cases, the wife was accused of infidelity). And I’ve worked with family attorneys on unrelated matters. From what I’ve seen, in what is admittedly a small sample size, and from what these attorneys have told me, it’s not always black and white.

If you are, however, genuinely honest, then you have my apologies and I wish you the best of luck.

[/quote]
I apologize if that is how I came across. Let me be honest here. I am NO SAINT. For a quick backstory, I am an alcoholic/addict currently in recovery(have been sober 10 yrs.) Please note that that is one of the reasons we connected, we both liked to drink and had similar interests in drugs. I have/had anger issues(counseling/AA/NA and my higher power all Helped me here)I DID cheat on my wife early in our relationship before I got sober. We went to counseling, and she took me back. We then got married quickly after, and had our first child. Then the cheating on her part began.Multiple times. this is just the lastest incident, and the only time i actually have 100% proof. I dont know it it was regret, anger, or her BAD upbringing(i can tell more about that later) but she turned into a monster. to me. She is unselfish, caring, and loving to others, but turns into a controlling monster around men/father figure type people in her life. And that is when it spills over into other areas of her life. home, kids, friends. She becomes 2-faced, shady, that kind of thing. Outside of the direct pain she has caused me, I do feel for her in a sense. She was dealt a shitty hand growing up. But now it is fucking with my kids. I have played the role of whipping boy long enough and need to put up a stand for the long term well being of my kids.

136

Forgot if I mentioned this. She is flying out to see the guy today. I told her last week that I would be out of town this weekend(which I will be-for a conference). She didn’t even bother to make up where she was going, or that she was even going anywhere. The kids apparently are going to stay with a relative for the weekend-I know this because my oldest kid told me that last night when I tucked her into bed-she was excited for a weekend sleepover.

Wife never mentioned any of this. what is your take on this, people, ignorance or arrogance? She either thinks I am an Idiot, or that I don’t care. I mean I think I do come off as a regular dude, but not a dumbass.

137

[quote]randomonymous wrote:
Forgot if I mentioned this. She is flying out to see the guy today. I told her last week that I would be out of town this weekend(which I will be-for a conference). She didn’t even bother to make up where she was going, or that she was even going anywhere. The kids apparently are going to stay with a relative for the weekend-I know this because my oldest kid told me that last night when I tucked her into bed-she was excited for a weekend sleepover.

Wife never mentioned any of this. what is your take on this, people, ignorance or arrogance? She either thinks I am an Idiot, or that I don’t care. I mean I think I do come off as a regular dude, but not a dumbass.[/quote]

I don’t think she thinks you are dumb. Sounds like she thinks she is getting away with it but subconsciously (or maybe even consciously) wants to get caught or found out.

Women, in general, love using passive aggressiveness. When using this technique and you don’t get the reaction you want, the passive aggressiveness becomes more and more blatant until you pick up on it.

She could save herself a lot of trouble by just talking to you. I suppose I could say the same thing about you just laying all the cards on the table at this point, but I understand you are trying to get all your ducks in a row.

On another note, it’s commendable that you are able to accept and admit to your mistakes, make ammends and move forward. No one is perfect but it does take a special person to forgive and it doesn’t sound like she’s that special person.

138

[quote]randomonymous wrote:
Wife never mentioned any of this. what is your take on this, people, ignorance or arrogance? She either thinks I am an Idiot, or that I don’t care. I mean I think I do come off as a regular dude, but not a dumbass.[/quote]

If that is indeed what is occurring, my take is that this is very poor parenting. It’s not normal to fly off for the weekend, while your spouse is attending a conference, shuttling the kids off elsewhere without so much as one word spoken to your spouse about your plans for a weekend rendezvous with the new boy toy.

Personally, I think it’s in poor taste for her (or any party in a similar situation) to even be engaging in any sort of romantic endeavors with another person while you two are technically still married and living with the kids, because it possibly sends mixed messages to them on multiple fronts, but that’s another topic and rooted only in my own personal moral beliefs about relationships and family norms.

139

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]randomonymous wrote:
Forgot if I mentioned this. She is flying out to see the guy today. I told her last week that I would be out of town this weekend(which I will be-for a conference). She didn’t even bother to make up where she was going, or that she was even going anywhere. The kids apparently are going to stay with a relative for the weekend-I know this because my oldest kid told me that last night when I tucked her into bed-she was excited for a weekend sleepover.

Wife never mentioned any of this. what is your take on this, people, ignorance or arrogance? She either thinks I am an Idiot, or that I don’t care. I mean I think I do come off as a regular dude, but not a dumbass.[/quote]

I don’t think she thinks you are dumb. Sounds like she thinks she is getting away with it but subconsciously (or maybe even consciously) wants to get caught or found out.

Women, in general, love using passive aggressiveness. When using this technique and you don’t get the reaction you want, the passive aggressiveness becomes more and more blatant until you pick up on it.

She could save herself a lot of trouble by just talking to you. I suppose I could say the same thing about you just laying all the cards on the table at this point, but I understand you are trying to get all your ducks in a row.

On another note, it’s commendable that you are able to accept and admit to your mistakes, make ammends and move forward. No one is perfect but it does take a special person to forgive and it doesn’t sound like she’s that special person.[/quote]
hey thanks man I appreciate. I’m nothing special in that regard though. I can forgive because I have been forgiven. Enough said there I think you guys know what I mean.

as far as communication, I wish it were that easy. One of our underlying problems is/was our inability to communicate. I am used to being the type a personality in the relationship. as mentioned previously, she used the kids and my past actions as leverage to keep me from doing that. I didn’t know what to do then, and like an idiot, I kind of shut down emotionally around her.

140

[quote]JR249 wrote:

[quote]randomonymous wrote:
Wife never mentioned any of this. what is your take on this, people, ignorance or arrogance? She either thinks I am an Idiot, or that I don’t care. I mean I think I do come off as a regular dude, but not a dumbass.[/quote]

If that is indeed what is occurring, my take is that this is very poor parenting. It’s not normal to fly off for the weekend, while your spouse is attending a conference, shuttling the kids off elsewhere without so much as one word spoken to your spouse about your plans for a weekend rendezvous with the new boy toy.

Personally, I think it’s in poor taste for her (or any party in a similar situation) to even be engaging in any sort of romantic endeavors with another person while you two are technically still married and living with the kids, because it possibly sends mixed messages to them on multiple fronts, but that’s another topic and rooted only in my own personal moral beliefs about relationships and family norms.
[/quote]
I agree. It’s fucked up to think, but I wasn’t thinking about her flying out, I was thankful she wasn’t bringing the kids with her. THEN I would have confronted her right away. that shit SCARS kids.