Kevin Nash Defends Steroids

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41

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I’ll give you one Chris Benoit. BUT WAIT we can’t use him because it can be a million other things. How about the several cases a year on date line? BUT WAIT we can’t use them because it can be a million other things. [/quote]

You are claiming that steroids are the reason Benoit killed his whole family? How did you arrive at this conclusion? What cases on dateline? What cases involve someone who went insane because of anabolic hormones?

[quote]

Funny, same argument drunk drivers used until they finally banned drinking and driving. “But wait he didn’t crash his car because he was drunk he crashed it because he looked to the left. Show me one case of of a driver getting into an accident because he was drunk.” THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE MEDIA that you are bashing. [/quote]

There are thousands of crashes and accidents every year that involve someone too drunk to even walk straight. Who is claiming alcohol doesn’t cause severe problems? You are comparing being drunk with anabolic hormone use?

[quote]
As to your question about who are these people I claim to know? One almost step cousin and one close friend from highschool. Both of which were in weed ciphers, and next day were totally fucked up. To the point one guy roams my town like a nomad, and the other one needs to be hand held every where he goes. Of course all the weed heads said he just cracked under the pressure of school.[/quote]

Marijuana now makes people insane? Where are you reading all of this? I thought everyone was laughing at the idea of “reefer madness” by now. Apparently, not you, huh?

[quote]

As stated above the proof is there you just choose to disclaim it, also shadowzz recited studies in earlier posts but as usual every one denies it.[/quote]

What proof? Saying Benoit killed his family because of steroids and wouldn’t have done so had he not used steroids is not proof of anything other than your own speculation and bias.

[quote]
And? I mean I believe I stated that people I know BEFORE AND AFTER use. Which means if you know girls who NEVER had road rage, take steroids on Monday then get road rage on tuesday for the first time in their life what are you going to say? “awww man, thats road rage why you always blaming it on roids.”[/quote]

I never dated a girl who was known to be taking steroids, but I sure as hell wouldn’t be stupid enough to see someone react a certain way and jump to conclusions looking for something to blame other than THAT PERSON first.

[quote]
If I have friends who aren’t privy to fighting start taking roids then want to punch through somebody car window the next day, then fight the wrestling teacher the day after, and proceed to kicking kids asses on the bball court after that in my mind that constitutes what the media calls roid rage. But hey thats the media right, the real reason he did that was he was going through stuff that week.[/quote]

If you had friends who used substances known to make many people stronger who then start acting like jackasses to prove how strong they are, you first blame their upbringing. You might also want to try blaming their previous mental state because no kid in high school should be using steroids to begin with. Have you ever heard of a placebo effect? It is the same thing that allows people to use worthless supplements yet suddenly start training more efficiently in the gym. Anyone who grew up when HottStuff was being mass marketed can tell you about that. For many people, if they believe an effect is going to occur, they will act in that way whether it is actually occurring or not. I remember a few of us playing a joke on a friend of ours where we gave him just enough alcohol to flavor it and the rest was club soda. Apparently, he really thought he was drunk until we told him what the deal was.

To rule things like that out because you WANT to believe something is pretty naive. I haven’t seen anyone write that anabolic hormones are completely safe for all. What is being debated is how evil they are being portrayed currently.

I have a feeling many of you will wish you hadn’t jumped on that bandwagon 20-30 years from now when you would like some HRT but can’t find a doctor who will prescribe it due to fear of losing a license.

Fear does a whole lot of damage. Very rarely can you repair it all.

42

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I have a feeling many of you will wish you hadn’t jumped on that bandwagon 20-30 years from now when you would like some HRT but can’t find a doctor who will prescribe it due to fear of losing a license.

Fear does a whole lot of damage. Very rarely can you repair it all.[/quote]

I hope it never gets completely banned. If it does, I heard Ireland is a nice place.

43

[quote]KSman wrote:
Some people who are risk takers, unstable or drug seeking in nature will end up taking steroids where others would not. The tendency of such personality types to be more likely to take steroids will simply make studies show that there are more persons of that type in a population of steroid users vs non users.

Those same personality types are also more likely to partake an a whole host of risky behaviours including other drugs and alcohol abuse.

The fact that there are any increased levels of mental disorders, aggressive behaviors and such in a population of steroid users does not mean that steroids is the cause of any such problems. It only means that persons with those tendancies are more inclined to try things like steroids than others.[/quote]

Great. Fucking. Post.

44

[quote]Professor X wrote:

If you had friends who used substances known to make many people stronger who then start acting like jackasses to prove how strong they are, you first blame their upbringing. You might also want to try blaming their previous mental state because no kid in high school should be using steroids to begin with. Have you ever heard of a placebo effect? It is the same thing that allows people to use worthless supplements yet suddenly start training more efficiently in the gym. Anyone who grew up when HottStuff was being mass marketed can tell you about that. For many people, if they believe an effect is going to occur, they will act in that way whether it is actually occurring or not. I remember a few of us playing a joke on a friend of ours where we gave him just enough alcohol to flavor it and the rest was club soda. Apparently, he really thought he was drunk until we told him what the deal was.

To rule things like that out because you WANT to believe something is pretty naive. I haven’t seen anyone write that anabolic hormones are completely safe for all. What is being debated is how evil they are being portrayed currently.

I have a feeling many of you will wish you hadn’t jumped on that bandwagon 20-30 years from now when you would like some HRT but can’t find a doctor who will prescribe it due to fear of losing a license.

Fear does a whole lot of damage. Very rarely can you repair it all.[/quote]

If steriods are totally safe, which despite your claim otherwise I can easily go into the steriod forum and find numerous people who say so, then why should not kid in alcohol be using it?
Steriods have been legal for medical purposes since there existence.

Nobody has ever requested that it not be, every time the media cracks down on roids its always for illegal usage and bad prescription practices. It’s even acceptable for men whose only problem is low T. So how does this show societies fear of its positive uses?

Yet there mere mention that steriods might have one negative effect, will bring out more under the table Roid heads then roaches defending it. Which to me displays more fear than anything?

All the doctors that have been crucified in the media for prescribing it have not been able to show one good reason, so why 20 to 30 years from know would I be worried if I use an upstanding doctor who follows solid practice?

45

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
I’ve never used a steriod but have beeen around people who have. Knowing them before and after, I can say that I’ve witnessed what the masses know as roid rage.
[/quote]

No, what you witnessed was an asshole being an asshole. So what if you knew them before, did you study and gauge their range of emotions. More likely, when you did know that they were on, you paid more attention to any reaction that you could label “rage.”

Just like when you buy a new car, suddenly you see your new car everywhere. Bottom line is steroids make you feel on top of the world, you do not want to “rage” except in a lifting context.
If you think that taking steroids could make me kill my wife and my child… well sir, you simply do not have even the slightest of clues.

46

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Professor X wrote:

If steriods are totally safe, which despite your claim otherwise I can easily go into the steriod forum and find numerous people who say so, then why should not kid in alcohol be using it?
Steriods have been legal for medical purposes since there existence.
[/quote]

Kids will be looking for a quick fix.
They wont spend the time to read about the side affects or to throughly plan out a cycle, they will just inject it or swallow em as many times as they can as long as they can, untill they overdose or die.

Thats the reason why kids shouldn’t take steroids. I’m an 18 year old high school student and I guarantee you none of my classmates would investigate steroid use if they had the opportunity to take them, they would simply take them and thats why it is un-safe and wrong.

47

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Prof X:

I have to disagree with the spontaneous rage not being able to turn into a weekend of death.

You got a quick burst of rage, heated argument with your wife and hit her a little too many times too hard. Your already 50lbs muscle or more than her and in your heated bout of rage may have even picked up something. She’s dead.
[/quote]

If this was a quick burst of rage and it was a sudden heated incident, then why would her hands be bound? That shows that there was some predetermined, thought out action.

Are you trying to say that the roids so quickly left his system from the time he killed his wife to the time he killed his son?

I don’t think anybody here is saying that steroids has nothing to do with this. But to put TOTAL blame on the steroid is ridiculous in its own. With Benoit’s past history of alcohol abuse and prescription pain killers and medication use, I would think that would have a higher toll on his actions.

So now you are going to go along with steroid use having long term effects and that being the reason for his actions? Before you said he just killed his wife in roid rage then “the roids left his system” and he killed his son. Which is it?

In all, as I previously said, steroids can not be solely the blame for this travesty. I would believe more in rash actions being caused by prescription medication, pain killers, and alcohol abuse more than anything. I have specific instances that I’ve been around that validate my opinions for myself, but each person is going to have their own outlook on this situation.

-LH

48

[quote]kroby wrote:
KSman wrote:
Some people who are risk takers, unstable or drug seeking in nature will end up taking steroids where others would not. The tendency of such personality types to be more likely to take steroids will simply make studies show that there are more persons of that type in a population of steroid users vs non users.

Those same personality types are also more likely to partake an a whole host of risky behaviours including other drugs and alcohol abuse.

The fact that there are any increased levels of mental disorders, aggressive behaviors and such in a population of steroid users does not mean that steroids is the cause of any such problems. It only means that persons with those tendancies are more inclined to try things like steroids than others.

Great. Fucking. Post.[/quote]

You are both missing the fucking point completely. Of course you cannot say steroids have such a significant effect on someone’s mental state that just the fact that they took steroids caused a certain event to happen, there is no way to know whether, as you say they were risk takers, a certain type of personality to begin with.

Sure, these are all possibilities. BUT. You are stating that the only reason these people are testing for having mental disorders is because they were like that to begin with. Maybe. Sure. Very well could be. But you dont know that. If there is a chance it could have contributed, and contributed signifantly to what happened then this is a serious thing we are talking about murder here.

And the point you make about drugs and alcohol abuse is a good one but here is the problem. Yes people often abuse drugs and alcohol but it is frowned upon quite a bit by almost anyone.

Steroids dont seem to get the same disapproval, more of a, “who knows what it will do to you down the road and it IS illegal” type attitude, not a real negative context. The point being, maybe it shouldnt be “cool” to say “I juice” just like it isnt cool to say, yea, umm, “Im addicted to cocaine”.

49
  1. I think every wrestler has been very intelligent, mature and responsible about this issue. They have, for the most part had their facts straight and didn’t say anything definatively. Friggin news reporters though have no idea what they are talking about. I’m no steriod expert by any means, never tried them, but it is very clear the news media is pushing an agenda.

Steroids might be part of a large picture of substance abuse that could have exaggerated a predisposition to be “fuckin crazy” (I think thats a good summation of it X), but the media is making it sound like steroids are the only possibly cause for this, thats what I think most people have a problem with, the sole focus on roids when alcohol, prescription pain meds, and even excessive head trauma all lead to mood swings and depression, so why not spread the focus out some.

  1. The very first report I read the day after it happened, talked about the son being injected with GH cuz he had fragile X. The detective on the scene is the one who made the statement. Does anyone else think that seems rather unprofessional. To make such a huge accusation based solely on what appeared to be old needle marks in the arm???

Like I said, I havent touched it, and know very little on roids or GH, but I never heard of the arm being an injection site, correct me if im wrong. Between the detective telling the news and the news reporting it as if its a fact, that was enough to have me take any more findings with a grain of salt.

I think everyone can agree the human mind is complex and people do things for all sorts of reasons. To try to pin it on one thing is ridiculous in this instance, atleast till they get the autoposy stuff and see if he was hopped up on shit.

50

skimming through this thread, it seems like professor x is just about ready to crippler crossface all these haters in RAGE

and lol@posting sean hannity. hannity, ffs

51

let’s cut through some crap here. the talking heads do not know of what they speak. you’ll find that about most subjects that you are informed on. it takes four or five seconds for you to realize that the person speaking has NO frame of reference, only an opinion that they are SHOCKED if you do not share.

i’ve taken steroids and been around people who have taken steroids. i’ve seen my share of fights. been in few. broke up a few. some of these fights involved guys who were on. as many involved guys who were clean as jurassic rain. there’s no pattern. but it’s easy when a competitive athlete has an altercation or an aruguement to say ‘roid rage!’. so that’s what they do.

the side-effects are grossly overstated by the media. i’ve taken as much as 40mg of dianabol a day (not much, comparatively speaking) and noticed NOTHING (nothing 'cept about 15% more strength). no zits. no shrunken testes. no reduced sex drive (maybe the opposite).

no mood swings. in fact, i’d say my mood was pretty good most of the time because my training was going so well. only thing i ever learned of was elevated bilirubin in my urine. that returned to normal when i went off.

52

[quote]Professor X wrote:

…There are people who show spontaneous rage while driving and steroids are not the cause. However, spontaneous…doesn’t last for DAYS.

The simple facts surrounding this case would seem to speak AGAINST “roid rage” if ever a thing could even be proven without doubt to exist.
[/quote]

This is what I told someone the other day that asked about it. If he had killed some random kid and woman while standing in line at the supermarket, then the argument would at least be linear, if not logical.

Also, sitting with the bodies for a day or so and then killing yourself doesn’t sound like roid rage either.

To quote Chris Rock, whatever happened to just plain “crazy”?

53

[quote]medevac wrote:
Professor X wrote:

…There are people who show spontaneous rage while driving and steroids are not the cause. However, spontaneous…doesn’t last for DAYS.

The simple facts surrounding this case would seem to speak AGAINST “roid rage” if ever a thing could even be proven without doubt to exist.

This is what I told someone the other day that asked about it. If he had killed some random kid and woman while standing in line at the supermarket, then the argument would at least be linear, if not logical.

Also, sitting with the bodies for a day or so and then killing yourself doesn’t sound like roid rage either.

To quote Chris Rock, whatever happened to just plain “crazy”?
[/quote]

Horrible reference. Just because you did something in a fit of rage doesn’t mean you don’t feel remorse afterwards. What would you expect the guy to do after he just killed his wife. Just go on and act like nothing in the world happened?

54

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I was really pleased that he pointed out that steroids are taken IM not IV, and that GH is taken subcutanously (or ‘under the fat’ was his phrasing) with reference to the son’s track marks. That basic lack of knowledge by the media more so than every other rush to judgment has been bothering me[/quote]

You know any and everyone who watched that has no clue what he was talking about when he said that.

I’ll add to the band of people and say the reporters were idiots, because they were. I don’t know who that Kevin guy is but I have much more respect for him now than them, due to obvious reasons.

55

I have a question though…What about all the other murders that weren’t steroid related? What about Columbine and Virginia Tech? Those were caused by 3 people with similar apparently mental problems or w/e you want to call it, and they all acted out. How are steroids narrowed down in this case as the only problem?

I personally have never taken steroids and will never need to take them as I don’t care to get that big, I already feel fine and don’t care to even risk possible side effects, and I don’t mind aging gracefully in a natural way, but that doesn’t at all mean I care if others take them or that I think they are bad at all.