Kevin Nash Defends Steroids

Shadowzz4 · July 8, 2007, 1:33pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Shadowzz4 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
People are actually blaming murders on steroids? I don’t watch much tv, but I am amazed that this agenda is being pushed to this degree. Have cocaine busts simply not been allowing the creation of enough careers?

I haven’t watched Hannity and Colms in a while but that was ridiculous. I know they want more ratings, but his attempt to guide the interview right where he wanted was so obvious it was unprofessional. The woman who jumped in and cut him off shows the media is out of control.

This is what many people actually turn to for news even though many try to blow it off as simply being a “news talk show”. Her attempt to make it seem as if Congress needs to be involved makes me wonder what the problem is.

Kevin Nash did a good job of holding his position, but it is clear that no one is listening.

Im suprised at you Professor X. You usually provide the most well-rounded thought-out post on any topic you discuss. As smart as you are, you sound just like everyone else on this one. Just like Hannity and Colmes sound uneducated and way off-base, everyone on this thread sounds the same way. Usually in this type of debate there is some truth that lies between the two extremes, usually not as bad as one group would have you think or as harmless as the other.

You believe your responses in this thread are educated while everyone else’s aren’t? The truth is that the man hasn’t even had the results of his autopsy released and that while alive, he had several bouts with alcohol, a substance KNOWN WITHOUT DOUBT to increase hostility and aggression. This gets passed over to label steroids as the cause of murdering two other people over an entire weekend and then committing suicide?

Let’s see if your education can follow this next statement…since when does uncontrollable spontaneous rage get drawn out into an entire weekend of death?

Your mistake, as well as that of those talking heads on television, is missing the obvious. There are people who show spontaneous rage while driving and steroids are not the cause. However, spontaneous…doesn’t last for DAYS.

The simple facts surrounding this case would seem to speak AGAINST “roid rage” if ever a thing could even be proven without doubt to exist.

Im suprised at you Professor X.

Unfortunately, I am not surprised by this latest piece of crap from you.[/quote]

I think you know there are undesirable effects from using steroids. I went to a highschool where a ton of football players took steroids and I never saw anything out of character with them at all. The ones that were crazy assholes before were crazy assholes juicing later. And the normal ones stayed normal.

But Im not going to act like everyone else on here and that there is no way steroids played a role at all in what happened, no one really knows for sure. Just because you take steroids (if you do) or you know alot of people who do and none of them have ever acted out of character doesnt mean the same is true for this man. It very well could have been alcohol and Benoit’s natural psyche that was the problem. We will never know.

scarpa · July 8, 2007, 1:47pm

I hope that dumb bitch dies in a car accident…

KBCThird · July 8, 2007, 3:42pm

I was really pleased that he pointed out that steroids are taken IM not IV, and that GH is taken subcutanously (or ‘under the fat’ was his phrasing) with reference to the son’s track marks. That basic lack of knowledge by the media more so than every other rush to judgment has been bothering me

StevenF · July 8, 2007, 4:35pm

[quote]scarpa wrote:
I hope that dumb bitch dies in a car accident…[/quote]

That’s just unnecessary, not to mention ignorant.

Sliver · July 8, 2007, 5:21pm

Shadowzz4, was that study a double blind?

Shadowzz4 · July 8, 2007, 5:33pm

[quote]Sliver wrote:
Shadowzz4, was that study a double blind?[/quote]

All I have is the abstract. Doesnt mention it being a double blind.

Also found this looking around.

Homicide and near-homicide by anabolic steroid users.

The authors describe three men, all with benign premorbid psychiatric histories, no evidence of antisocial personality disorder, and no history of violence, who impulsively committed violent crimes–including murder–while taking anabolic steroids. Structured psychiatric interviews of each man suggested that steroids played a necessary, if not primary, role in the etiology of the violent behavior.

Although the men conceivably might have exaggerated their reports of the effects of steroids in the hopes of improving their legal positions, information from external sources consistently corroborated their accounts in each case. These observations raise the possibility that steroid-induced violence may pose a little-recognized public health problem.

Tiribulus · July 9, 2007, 2:28am

@ Shadowzz4

Nothing you’ve cited here is anywhere near conclusive. They jump from moodiness to a"public" safety issue in the first study and as you yourself said use the testimonies of men who have everything to gain in the second. What difference does external testimony make? Some observers had an opinion that steroids were a key component in the murders? So what?

There are straight faced people blaming PMS for homicidal tendencies as well. People can have unconventional reactions to all kinds of usually safe substances even it were shown to be true in some infinitesimally small number of cases.

I’ve never used and doubt I ever will and it’s not even steroids that are the major issue here for me. It’s the continuous erosion of responsibility in this society. Nobody’s responsible for anything anymore. It’s an ever expanding list of syndromes, addictions and disorders over which they have no control.

The plain empirical fact is that violent crime has increased dramatically in recent decades. I bet if we did a numbers tally, the per capita figure for murderers would be the same for users and non users, PMS nut cases and women who don’t suffer from it as much. In other words out of a thousand of each group the number of violence issues would be similar. Moodiness not withstanding.

Sliver · July 9, 2007, 4:07am

the wikipedia article on anabolic steroids has a wonderful section that debunks just about every myth ever concocted.

Shadowzz4 · July 9, 2007, 1:49pm

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
@ Shadowzz4

Nothing you’ve cited here is anywhere near conclusive. They jump from moodiness to a"public" safety issue in the first study and as you yourself said use the testimonies of men who have everything to gain in the second. What difference does external testimony make? Some observers had an opinion that steroids were a key component in the murders? So what?

There are straight faced people blaming PMS for homicidal tendencies as well. People can have unconventional reactions to all kinds of usually safe substances even it were shown to be true in some infinitesimally small number of cases.

I’ve never used and doubt I ever will and it’s not even steroids that are the major issue here for me. It’s the continuous erosion of responsibility in this society. Nobody’s responsible for anything anymore. It’s an ever expanding list of syndromes, addictions and disorders over which they have no control.

The plain empirical fact is that violent crime has increased dramatically in recent decades. I bet if we did a numbers tally, the per capita figure for murderers would be the same for users and non users, PMS nut cases and women who don’t suffer from it as much. In other words out of a thousand of each group the number of violence issues would be similar. Moodiness not withstanding.[/quote]

I couldnt agree with you more on everything you have said.

Dan John had a good quote in a recent article it went something like “This was back when, if you hurt yourself, it was your fault”. I think the same applies here. It is crazy how people are always looking to blame problems on something else. A supposed side-effect of taking anabolic steroids are mood swings and other detrimental mental problems. I dont know if this is true. I would imagine there is some truth to it. One of the main reasons I am skeptical of steroids is that there are not many instances where something has an extremely positive attribute without having a negative attribute often of the same magnitude.

system · July 9, 2007, 2:42pm

I thought Nash’s interview was great, he was informed truthfull and sounded intelligent. I think that’s why the reporters where trying to bate him into a fight and it didn’t work, so they cut him off and called him a non expert(yet they asked him to be on).

The whole mainstream world is so in the dark with anabolics it’s not even funny, I read an interview with a comic writer who did Young Avenger’s who claimed he became physically addicted to gear and decided to do a story on it.

Then there was the Fox new’s show that had Warrior in it where the host claimed the 'roided up guys would throw temper tantrums and throw 70lb dumbells across the room(I find that hard to believe).

K_O_N_G · July 9, 2007, 5:19pm

I agree that the effects of Steroid use can react differently within each individual, just like any other drug, legal or otherwise. To dismiss steroids completely and say that it couldn’t have contributed to Benoit’s problems is ridiculous as well.

I’m sure everybody knows somebody who used steroids or still uses them or at least knows someone who is on anti- depressants. Those drugs CAN BE mind altering. All depends on the person. I graduated with a guy who used anabolics and to this day he is pretty much a vegetable. I know another who is perfectly fine. I’ve witnessed first hand the effects of missing a dose of a anti-depressant. It can get ugly!

Tiribulus · July 10, 2007, 5:54pm

It’s one thing to say that SOME people MAY have a reaction to something that negatively affects their decision making and MAYBE even make a significant contribution to a homocide in isolated cases… MAYBE. It’s one thing to say that. It’s quite another to say “roid rage” is a measurable public safety concern.

The very fact that there are millions of people using them worldwide and there hasn’t been a night of the living dead style epidemic of psychotic violence among those people would tend to mitigate against this point of view.

KSman · July 10, 2007, 7:00pm

Some people who are risk takers, unstable or drug seeking in nature will end up taking steroids where others would not. The tendency of such personality types to be more likely to take steroids will simply make studies show that there are more persons of that type in a population of steroid users vs non users.

Those same personality types are also more likely to partake an a whole host of risky behaviours including other drugs and alcohol abuse.

The fact that there are any increased levels of mental disorders, aggressive behaviors and such in a population of steroid users does not mean that steroids is the cause of any such problems. It only means that persons with those tendancies are more inclined to try things like steroids than others.

Airtruth · July 10, 2007, 7:13pm

Prof X:

I have to disagree with the spontaneous rage not being able to turn into a weekend of death.

You got a quick burst of rage, heated argument with your wife and hit her a little too many times too hard. Your already 50lbs muscle or more than her and in your heated bout of rage may have even picked up something. She’s dead.

Now your home confused your son saw this your calming down think of yourself as the worst person in the world. May even be coming down to an extreme depressed state, specially when you add on the fact the roids are leaving your system. Now you feel life is over and decide to spend a moment with your son and while he sleep kill him.

Next day you go through the house make settle yourself down and decide to kill yourself. Why not? you have no wife, no kid and face life in prison at best.

Everybody:
Acting as if roids has nothing to do with this is as bad as the media acting like it had everything to do with this.

Screaming for a toxicology proves what? If he decided to come down off a lifetime of roids, and has cleansed his system this will just prove to the public that once its gone now you are depressed. I have heard depression as more of the reasons behind his killings then raging.

Professor_X · July 10, 2007, 8:12pm

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Prof X:

I have to disagree with the spontaneous rage not being able to turn into a weekend of death.

You got a quick burst of rage, heated argument with your wife and hit her a little too many times too hard. Your already 50lbs muscle or more than her and in your heated bout of rage may have even picked up something. She’s dead.

Now your home confused your son saw this your calming down think of yourself as the worst person in the world. May even be coming down to an extreme depressed state, specially when you add on the fact the roids are leaving your system. Now you feel life is over and decide to spend a moment with your son and while he sleep kill him.

Next day you go through the house make settle yourself down and decide to kill yourself. Why not? you have no wife, no kid and face life in prison at best.

Everybody:
Acting as if roids has nothing to do with this is as bad as the media acting like it had everything to do with this.

Screaming for a toxicology proves what? If he decided to come down off a lifetime of roids, and has cleansed his system this will just prove to the public that once its gone now you are depressed. I have heard depression as more of the reasons behind his killings then raging.
[/quote]

We have a term for people who kill their entire families and then off themselves. That term is “fucking crazy”. For any ONE substance to get the brunt of media coverage as the “cause” of “fucking crazy” is obscene. Why isn’t alcohol being begged to be debated on by Congress by Fox News media sluts?

This is about a story. It is about what sells ratings. It doesn’t have shit to do with “steroids”. The mind and entire life of a person is what leads them to “fucking crazy”, not any one substance more than another. If this were not the case, the thousands (if not millions) of people on black market anabolic hormones would be destroying all mankind. That isn’t happening. It has never happened.

Men with naturally higher testosterone levels are more aggressive than those without. Aggressiveness does not equal “fucking crazy”. Extremely horny does not equal “fucking crazy”. Only “fucking crazy” can lead to “fucking crazy” and for anyone to claim anything more about what “caused” his fucking craziness is insane as well.

jtrinsey · July 10, 2007, 8:34pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is about a story. It is about what sells ratings. It doesn’t have shit to do with “steroids”. [/quote]

Yeah definitely. That’s all news is anymore. I think anybody that actually does some critical thinking would realize that steroids don’t make one spin into a psychotic rage.

However, I don’t there’s any sort of thinking, critical or otherwise, that goes into “news” stories. It’s talking heads on tv trying to stir up controversy and panic to people who prefer fear and ignorance to analysis.

Airtruth · July 10, 2007, 4:41pm

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Prof X: