Can I remind you that you’re a homo?
First we have to make the distinction bewteen low carb and ketogenic diets. While yes a ketogenic diet for all intents and purposes is a low carb diet. However a low carb diet isn’t alway ketogentic. Well I have heard evidence about ketones being harmful I am not sure in which way and exactly how harmful. Steve Mcgeggor(Did I spell it right? 
) could probably explain it well. Bear in mind that the human body is highly adaptable and yes eskimos may have had a largely ketogenic diet other peoples did not. Also was their diet ketogenic all year round???
As for the efficacy of a ketogenic diet I personaly don’t like them. Well at least on paper as I have never tired one. As Berardi says they lower your insulin sensitivity so your going to most likely rebound. Great a few weeks out from a competition but for maintenance or for long term fat loss I don’t think it’s the best out there. A lower carb low glycemic/insulin index carb diet is obviously the way to go.
With any luck noone is going to take this the wrong way and threaten me.
OK ill ask a direct question in future. I put my opinion on the line in a post instead of a reply.
I wonder if you have references so i can do some reading and brush up on the low carb philosophy. All my lecturers bagged it, so im looking around.
Domestication of grains doesnt mean they werent eaten. When were animals domesticated?Also i didn’t say lo carb kills just that ketones are toxic, a point handled by Goldberg. King Protein also raised an interesting point, there just needs to be referencing on both.
Sorry to upset everones apple cart but that happens when you question the status quo anywhere. Im glad someone is enjoying an interesting debate, freebie #:-)
You literally made me LOL. thanks bro.
Ketones can be a problem, but generally its less than 1/10 that have problems with them.
Uriceamia and the likes are common problems.
The real problem that most ‘dietitions’ (I have a Bsc in human nutrition, same undergrad training as dietitions in New Zealand) dont seem to quantify is that ketones are bad when combined with high blood glucose. This is what causes the osmotic duress (blood Osmolarity increases substantially, drawing water from the intercellular environment and the likes), lots of wizzing and possibly coma and death.
This is caused because the glucose cant get into the cell (no insulin generally, ie diabetics) and you get a raised level of glucagon (therefore increased ketogenesis), and you have ketones being produced when glucose is high.
Try and find a reference to anything that shows problems with ketones wthout the high blood glucose.
Try this review, it lists some complications, but shows no evidence of ‘dangers’
Freedman MR, King J, Kennedy E. Popular diets: a scientific review. Obes Res 2001;(suppl 1):1S-40S
Vegans piss me off more so because they wear it like a badge rather than just shutting their mouths and practicing their alleged peacfulness. TO me most of them are preachy passive/aggressive fuck bags who couldn’t give a shit about cuddly little critters they’re saving, nor about their physiques. And the irony is it’s just plain fuckin’ bad for you. Eat all the frikkin’ beans you want. It’ll do nothing more than pump your self-righteous ass with phytic acid and piss-poor quality low protein. Can you say anemia, osteoporosis, and catabolism?!?!?
The reference you requested from me is in a book ‘The Ketogenic Diet; A Treatment for Epilepsy’ - Freeman.
Also, you were a little off when you tried to argue that just because grains weren’t domesticated prior to 10,000 years ago didnt mean they weren’t consumed. They MIGHT have been consumed regionally in very small amounts, but extracting the grain (which aren’t the larger selectively bred grains we have today) from the stem and the preparation to make it edible is very energy inefficient on a small scale, so it is unlikely that they every made up any significant portion of a pre-agricultural age diet. I suppose you want a source for that too…keep reading the beyondveg site, especially all the Loren Cordain articles, every last one! It goes over this point in much more detail than I have written about here.
Rik–
Just shut the fuck up bra—the way you made your statement was arrogant as fak, and then you come back and say that we are arrogant when we rip into your ferry ass. I have done considerable journal research into ketogenic diets and have read extensively on them…you keep referring to online sites for info on them, which i am not even going to take the time to look at–you need to hit the journals bra–ketones are not harmful per se…Individually, just like any other approach to bb’ing/dieting then could have pejorative effects, but, in general, they are very good for fat loss and have a lot of benefits. Now, I suggest you go to your local library and read my bra–
Then, you won’t look as bad–
Vain
Actualy, i never go on to ketogenic diets, i keep carbs around 100 g at least. I’m naturaly lean so there’s no need. Also, i never go above 30 % carbs, and i avoid grains and most oats, i just have 50 g of oatmeal a day.
If you read beyoundveg carefuly you will notice that, acording to the autors, for the most part of the 2 million years we evolved, it wouldn’t be possible for humans to get a suignificant anount of calories from grains (carbs). For one wild grains are a lot smaller than domesticated ones, this together with the fact that they were spread out across the land, and not all laid together like they are nowadays made them caloricaly unviable, meaning you would spend more or at least as much calories obtaining and preparing them as you would obtain from them. And don’t forget that they can’t be eaten in their naturall state, the most acient fossil record of utensils used to grind and cook grains date 50 000 years ago, not a lot comparing to 2 million years, and these fossils sugested that they did not eat’em year round, just ocasionaly. I could go on forever.´
If you’re interested in this subject do a google on paleolithic diet, it will give you lots of info. Also try www.mercola.com, he gives you all the references you need.
Maybe, just maybe, the damn food pyramid is all fucking wrong, and maybe those damn dieticians are so arrogant that it will take them many years to admit they might be wrong. Who cares about them anyway?
Yea in all honesty I think ketosis is not a good idea for long term. Your body is built to survive. You will eventually rebound, and when u do, it maybe even worse than before. Your body doesnt care about looking good, it just wants to live. Our ancestors were low carbs eaters because THEY HAD TO BE. They didnt have Jack N The Box’s everywhere wher you could get a yumbo yack combo. They had to eat lots of meat when it was available and grains and seeds since that is all there was. Go back to that show THE LAND OF THE LOST and you will find out how to survive on a low carb diet and get your cardio at the same time while a dinosaur is trying to take a chunk out of your ass.
Just one thing, DINOSAURS and HUMANS never, ever saw each other!!! Dinosaurs were long gonne before humans evolved. Only after their extinction mammals got the chance to dominate earth and start evolving. The rest of your post showed as much ignorance as that bit, i’m not even gonna coment, i’m tired of this discussion.