Hey guys, great research article by Anssi H Manninen in the Journal of Sports Nutrition. It clears up some myths and reveals the truth behind keto diets. Check it out:
-Kyle
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1149303&pageNo=272#1917940
Look at Coach Thib’s response to my question about mass gaining on keto diets.
Coach Thib hit the nail on the head. I do think gaining mass on a keto diet is harder and not as effective. Maybe a good approach for FFBs and those who are very carb insensitive and tend to put on fat easily. For most others, I think carbs is the better approach.
Hey guys. I do think and know from experience that you can gain from these types of diets. Yes, insulin is low, but that causes GH output to be higher. Volek et. al. found this in a recent study. There has also been some research showing that the higher fat leads to higher test levels. Now, I am not saying this should be used year round and I know it is not the best for gaining mass simply because too many people love their carbs. But as far as getting ready for a show, this is the way to go. Also, get the best of both worlds and do a weekend carb load for 24-36 hours as Duchaine and DiPasquale suggest. Just some thoughts-Kyle
I agree with you jsbook and Knewell. I started doing mass gaining while on AD last Fall and have noticed increased strength.
However the process will be longer for me since I’m an endo. gotta add more calories slowly. grr.
“Keto” diet is pretty general.
By Keto, I mean get into a state of ketosis. In these types of diets, fat should make up about 65% of cals and protein about 35%. Don’t go too high on the protein as the process of gluconeogenisis can convert the amino acids into glucose which will not lead to a state of ketosis. A true keto diet will take you into ketosis for extended periods, but if will play with insulin via carbs once a week, we can have some amazing results. -Kyle
[quote]knewell wrote:
By Keto, I mean get into a state of ketosis. In these types of diets, fat should make up about 65% of cals and protein about 35%. Don’t go too high on the protein as the process of gluconeogenisis can convert the amino acids into glucose which will not lead to a state of ketosis. A true keto diet will take you into ketosis for extended periods, but if will play with insulin via carbs once a week, we can have some amazing results. -Kyle[/quote]
I do know what Ketosis is and have been eating pretty much the Anabolic Diet for 17 months, but I believe aiming for long term ketosis is a mistake. Adapting your metabolism for primary lipid utilization should be the goal and ketosis a temporary state during the adaptive process. Long term ketosis is catabolic while I agree that essentially swapping the role and amounts of fats and carbs in the diet is anything but.
This is where the confusion comes in. People make pronouncements about “keto” diets as if that applied to any high fat, high protein, low carb plan which is not the case. Fat adaptation coupled with weekly carb loads is decidedly not ketogenic long term.
I agree with you about gluconeoegenesis that it should be avoided. The strategically periodic glycogen loads take care of that. I personally cannot conceive of ever going back to a carb based diet.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
knewell wrote:
By Keto, I mean get into a state of ketosis. In these types of diets, fat should make up about 65% of cals and protein about 35%. Don’t go too high on the protein as the process of gluconeogenisis can convert the amino acids into glucose which will not lead to a state of ketosis. A true keto diet will take you into ketosis for extended periods, but if will play with insulin via carbs once a week, we can have some amazing results. -Kyle
I do know what Ketosis is and have been eating pretty much the Anabolic Diet for 17 months, but I believe aiming for long term ketosis is a mistake. Adapting your metabolism for primary lipid utilization should be the goal and ketosis a temporary state during the adaptive process. Long term ketosis is catabolic while I agree that essentially swapping the role and amounts of fats and carbs in the diet is anything but.
This is where the confusion comes in. People make pronouncements about “keto” diets as if that applied to any high fat, high protein, low carb plan which is not the case. Fat adaptation coupled with weekly carb loads is decidedly not ketogenic long term.
I agree with you about gluconeoegenesis that it should be avoided. The strategically periodic glycogen loads take care of that. I personally cannot conceive of ever going back to a carb based diet.[/quote]
This is my line of thought as well. And when you really get down to it, 2/7 days of high carbs isn’t half bad. There are a ton of people who just hate the idea of never being able to have their carbs, but that’s just not true with an AD type approach.
You also don’t need to make the 2/7 days joined. You can schedule your high carb days to coincide with your hardest training days or your priority days.
From my research the main problems with “keto” diets long term is that to gain significant muscle mass type-II fibers need carbs in order to work optimal. Depending on each individual characteristic everyone has varying degrees of type-I and type-II fibers. Those who are predominantly type-II will have a harder time to gain any muscle mass while doing AD.
However the AD is excellent for fat loss while increasing slightly your muscle mass, this gives the notion that it would work for everyone, and that is just not the case.
Know yourself!
According to the American Heart Association (AHA) Nutrition Committee, “Some popular high-protein/low-carbohydrate diets limit carbohydrates to 10 to 20 g/d, which is one fifth of the minimum 100 g/day that is necessary to prevent loss of lean muscle tissue [1].” Clearly, this is an incorrect statement since catabolism of lean body mass is reduced by ketone bodies (possibly through suppression of the activity of the branched-chain 2-oxo acid dehydrogenase), which and probably explains the preservation of lean tissue observed during very-low-carbohydrate diets.
Unfortunately, the leading exercise physiology textbook also claims a “low-carbohydrate diet sets the stage for a significant loss of lean tissue as the body recruits amino acids from muscle to maintain blood glucose via gluconeogenesis [2].” Thus, it is certainly time to set the record straight. …In comparison with glucose, the ketone bodies are a very good respiratory fuel. Whereas 100 g of glucose generates 8.7 kg of ATP, 100 g of 3-hydroxybutyrate can yield 10.5 kg of ATP, and 100 g of acetoacetate 9.4 kg of ATP [5]. (Anssi H Manninen , 2007).
Guys, I agree with most of the points. But the research is showing us that 1)Type II fibers do not need carbs to function at a high level and 2)A long term keto diet is not catabolic.
However, I do recommend for a better anabolic response, we do want to cycle carbs in to get that response as well.-Kyle
Um, didn’t Coach Thibs say that going long term low carbs isn’t a bad thing?
He went 18 months on a low carb diet with one cheat meal weekly.