Kennelly talk about doing more raw comps, or this just a one off?
I seem to remember him talk about training raw for a few months to take the record a year or two ago.
I used to powerlift…in a way FarmerBrett is right…the arguement of…“you trying putting a bench shirt on and do 395lbs more” is dumb as hell. We don’t want to put on some shirt and MASTER this magical shirt that will give us a lot more strength than we really have. I always hear people bring up that argument with the equipment and it’s a new world, master the technique…all that shit…my friend always talked about it when he used to compete in the IPF. But in reality when it gets to absurd numbers like that…no one gives a shit…it’s a joke.
Try to tell a normal person who doesn’t follow powerlifting what it’s about. You wear this equipment that makes you lift more weight?..everyone looks at me puzzled as hell, or that I’m half retarded if I explain THAT aspect of the sport. Yeah I can bench 405 raw, but in a suit it’s around 485. Or I can squat 500 raw, but with my suit…its around 625. It seems like a joke to people, they don’t understand. And when it gets to the point of 395lbs…if I bring this up to people they all just think it’s fake shit going on!
I don’t think Farmer was trying to troll intentionally…but he is right…395 difference is a bit ridiculous. I don’t give a shit what anyone says saying…oh he still lifted the weight, you put the shirt on and do it…it doesn’t matter, people are DELUSIONAL if they think getting almost 400lbs from a shirt is a GREAT FEAT OF STRENGTH.
Now 680 raw…that IS a great feat of strength, and an amazing effort. Two thumbs up.
Thank god. I was beginning to think I was a minority of one.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
I used to powerlift…in a way FarmerBrett is right…the arguement of…“you trying putting a bench shirt on and do 395lbs more” is dumb as hell. We don’t want to put on some shirt and MASTER this magical shirt that will give us a lot more strength than we really have. I always hear people bring up that argument with the equipment and it’s a new world, master the technique…all that shit…my friend always talked about it when he used to compete in the IPF. But in reality when it gets to absurd numbers like that…no one gives a shit…it’s a joke.
Try to tell a normal person who doesn’t follow powerlifting what it’s about. You wear this equipment that makes you lift more weight?..everyone looks at me puzzled as hell, or that I’m half retarded if I explain THAT aspect of the sport. Yeah I can bench 405 raw, but in a suit it’s around 485. Or I can squat 500 raw, but with my suit…its around 625. It seems like a joke to people, they don’t understand. And when it gets to the point of 395lbs…if I bring this up to people they all just think it’s fake shit going on!
I don’t think Farmer was trying to troll intentionally…but he is right…395 difference is a bit ridiculous. I don’t give a shit what anyone says saying…oh he still lifted the weight, you put the shirt on and do it…it doesn’t matter, people are DELUSIONAL if they think getting almost 400lbs from a shirt is a GREAT FEAT OF STRENGTH.
Now 680 raw…that IS a great feat of strength, and an amazing effort. Two thumbs up.[/quote]
what in the world are you talking about? the thing that is “delusional” is you saying that getting 400 lbs out of a shirt is rediculous. Like i said before you or anyone else bashing equipment try and get that much out of it. The problem i have with these posts is that farmerbrett and yourself are saying geared lifted is a way for an “ego” boost. When i remember jim wendler saying that he trains in gear because at his level going raw would be just asking for an injury. If the gear allows himself to train and progress why not use it? you also act as if no strength is gained from using a bench shirt, when you obviously see kennelly has a 680 raw bench press and he trains in gear. It is not like farmerbrett with his 150 lb bench press can put on a shirt and add a couple hundred pounds to his bench max.
Your arguement also says when geared numbers vs raw numbers get absurd like that it becomes a joke. really? so because kennelly trains harder then you/better genetics, and got a higher geared to raw ratio then you it then becomes absurd? Its funny you bash his geared lift and then compliment his raw lift. Maybe…just maybe…the way he has been training on a day to day basis with his equipment had a factor in his high raw bench??
So maybe…its not the shirt tightness or fabric thats determining how much a person gets out of it, its technique,training. wow the same things that increase your raw bench?! who woulda thought… Maybe you and farmerbrett can put a condom over your head (will act like a bench shirt) it might allow you to think better.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
I am fairly new to the site so I wasn’t aware that most of the lifters on here are equipped. How could I know that? and as for only being allowed to comment once I’ve used gear for a while, that’s like saying you can’t object to the fur trade until you’ve clubbed a few baby seals to death!!!
Everything else duly noted.[/quote]
really now, one baby seal would be sufficient.
[quote]hairygorillaguy wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
I used to powerlift…in a way FarmerBrett is right…the arguement of…“you trying putting a bench shirt on and do 395lbs more” is dumb as hell. We don’t want to put on some shirt and MASTER this magical shirt that will give us a lot more strength than we really have. I always hear people bring up that argument with the equipment and it’s a new world, master the technique…all that shit…my friend always talked about it when he used to compete in the IPF. But in reality when it gets to absurd numbers like that…no one gives a shit…it’s a joke.
Try to tell a normal person who doesn’t follow powerlifting what it’s about. You wear this equipment that makes you lift more weight?..everyone looks at me puzzled as hell, or that I’m half retarded if I explain THAT aspect of the sport. Yeah I can bench 405 raw, but in a suit it’s around 485. Or I can squat 500 raw, but with my suit…its around 625. It seems like a joke to people, they don’t understand. And when it gets to the point of 395lbs…if I bring this up to people they all just think it’s fake shit going on!
I don’t think Farmer was trying to troll intentionally…but he is right…395 difference is a bit ridiculous. I don’t give a shit what anyone says saying…oh he still lifted the weight, you put the shirt on and do it…it doesn’t matter, people are DELUSIONAL if they think getting almost 400lbs from a shirt is a GREAT FEAT OF STRENGTH.
Now 680 raw…that IS a great feat of strength, and an amazing effort. Two thumbs up.[/quote]
what in the world are you talking about? the thing that is “delusional” is you saying that getting 400 lbs out of a shirt is rediculous. Like i said before you or anyone else bashing equipment try and get that much out of it. The problem i have with these posts is that farmerbrett and yourself are saying geared lifted is a way for an “ego” boost. When i remember jim wendler saying that he trains in gear because at his level going raw would be just asking for an injury. If the gear allows himself to train and progress why not use it? you also act as if no strength is gained from using a bench shirt, when you obviously see kennelly has a 680 raw bench press and he trains in gear. It is not like farmerbrett with his 150 lb bench press can put on a shirt and add a couple hundred pounds to his bench max.
Your arguement also says when geared numbers vs raw numbers get absurd like that it becomes a joke. really? so because kennelly trains harder then you/better genetics, and got a higher geared to raw ratio then you it then becomes absurd? Its funny you bash his geared lift and then compliment his raw lift. Maybe…just maybe…the way he has been training on a day to day basis with his equipment had a factor in his high raw bench??
So maybe…its not the shirt tightness or fabric thats determining how much a person gets out of it, its technique,training. wow the same things that increase your raw bench?! who woulda thought… Maybe you and farmerbrett can put a condom over your head (will act like a bench shirt) it might allow you to think better. [/quote]
Okay wait…you don’t think getting 400lbs from a FUCKING SHIRT isn’t ridiculous. You sir are delusional. Ask anyone what they think of that…ANYONE and see what they say. Please. I dare you.
I never said geared lifting is an ego boost…I actually don’t understand the point of putting a shirt on to add that much weight to your bench.
Jim Wendler trains with gear so he doesn’t ask for an injury? Mmm…what about all the olympic
lifters squatting 6x a week and putting their “suit” on to prevent injury. No it doesn’t happen…I was squatting 405x15…below parallel I never had injuries…it’s how you train, when to back off a bit.
Again I don’t know the science behind the bench shirt but I have a feeling Kennely benching 680 has a lot more to do with his build, genetics, and all the other work he’s done…I don’t see him doing back work in a shirt. Your missing the point…No I don’t see Farmerbrett putting a shirt on and getting 200lbs…frankly he doesn’t give a shit…frankly neither do i…frankly the general public
see’s it as a joke putting on a silly shirt CAN give hundreds of pounds in strength if done properly.
Again I doubt all that equipment had a factor in his high raw bench. And NO you can’t really say
that kennely trains harder than me or anyone else because his bench is higher…that’s the dumbest shit ever.
Would you say Kenelly trains harder than 90% of athletes because his bench is so high? NO.
I said I USED to powerlift (I am now an athlete, with lifting off my mind)…maybe when me and kenelly were the same age we had the same bench press numbers…I was 202-206 and did 390 bench press at 19 years old…again I doubt this…but that’s just a stupid thing to say, he simply is BUILT to bench press. No matter if I trained, ate, slept benching…I probably would never ever reach a 680lb bench press…I’d also have to gave quite a bit of weight, and I don’t want to open a new discusiion but perhaps take somethin extra on the side in supplements if you know what I mean.
Listen…it is the shirt/fabric…double ply, triple ply…it all makes a difference. Bench press isn’t an extremely technical lift…some people are born to bench, such as Kennely, Mendelson, Jeremy Hoonstra, sincity who posts in the powerlifting forum…the list goes on of great benchers.
I don’t give a shit what someone can do in a shirt frankly…again go ask any highschooler who doesn’t know much about the sport, or someone on the street and explain to them the gear, shirts, suits etc. and see what they say…you will get a look.
[quote]rasturai wrote:
[quote]hairygorillaguy wrote:
[quote]rasturai wrote:
I used to powerlift…in a way FarmerBrett is right…the arguement of…“you trying putting a bench shirt on and do 395lbs more” is dumb as hell. We don’t want to put on some shirt and MASTER this magical shirt that will give us a lot more strength than we really have. I always hear people bring up that argument with the equipment and it’s a new world, master the technique…all that shit…my friend always talked about it when he used to compete in the IPF. But in reality when it gets to absurd numbers like that…no one gives a shit…it’s a joke.
Try to tell a normal person who doesn’t follow powerlifting what it’s about. You wear this equipment that makes you lift more weight?..everyone looks at me puzzled as hell, or that I’m half retarded if I explain THAT aspect of the sport. Yeah I can bench 405 raw, but in a suit it’s around 485. Or I can squat 500 raw, but with my suit…its around 625. It seems like a joke to people, they don’t understand. And when it gets to the point of 395lbs…if I bring this up to people they all just think it’s fake shit going on!
I don’t think Farmer was trying to troll intentionally…but he is right…395 difference is a bit ridiculous. I don’t give a shit what anyone says saying…oh he still lifted the weight, you put the shirt on and do it…it doesn’t matter, people are DELUSIONAL if they think getting almost 400lbs from a shirt is a GREAT FEAT OF STRENGTH.
Now 680 raw…that IS a great feat of strength, and an amazing effort. Two thumbs up.[/quote]
what in the world are you talking about? the thing that is “delusional” is you saying that getting 400 lbs out of a shirt is rediculous. Like i said before you or anyone else bashing equipment try and get that much out of it. The problem i have with these posts is that farmerbrett and yourself are saying geared lifted is a way for an “ego” boost. When i remember jim wendler saying that he trains in gear because at his level going raw would be just asking for an injury. If the gear allows himself to train and progress why not use it? you also act as if no strength is gained from using a bench shirt, when you obviously see kennelly has a 680 raw bench press and he trains in gear. It is not like farmerbrett with his 150 lb bench press can put on a shirt and add a couple hundred pounds to his bench max.
Your arguement also says when geared numbers vs raw numbers get absurd like that it becomes a joke. really? so because kennelly trains harder then you/better genetics, and got a higher geared to raw ratio then you it then becomes absurd? Its funny you bash his geared lift and then compliment his raw lift. Maybe…just maybe…the way he has been training on a day to day basis with his equipment had a factor in his high raw bench??
So maybe…its not the shirt tightness or fabric thats determining how much a person gets out of it, its technique,training. wow the same things that increase your raw bench?! who woulda thought… Maybe you and farmerbrett can put a condom over your head (will act like a bench shirt) it might allow you to think better. [/quote]
Okay wait…you don’t think getting 400lbs from a FUCKING SHIRT isn’t ridiculous. You sir are delusional. Ask anyone what they think of that…ANYONE and see what they say. Please. I dare you.
I never said geared lifting is an ego boost…I actually don’t understand the point of putting a shirt on to add that much weight to your bench.
Jim Wendler trains with gear so he doesn’t ask for an injury? Mmm…what about all the olympic
lifters squatting 6x a week and putting their “suit” on to prevent injury. No it doesn’t happen…I was squatting 405x15…below parallel I never had injuries…it’s how you train, when to back off a bit.
Again I don’t know the science behind the bench shirt but I have a feeling Kennely benching 680 has a lot more to do with his build, genetics, and all the other work he’s done…I don’t see him doing back work in a shirt. Your missing the point…No I don’t see Farmerbrett putting a shirt on and getting 200lbs…frankly he doesn’t give a shit…frankly neither do i…frankly the general public
see’s it as a joke putting on a silly shirt CAN give hundreds of pounds in strength if done properly.
Again I doubt all that equipment had a factor in his high raw bench. And NO you can’t really say
that kennely trains harder than me or anyone else because his bench is higher…that’s the dumbest shit ever.
Would you say Kenelly trains harder than 90% of athletes because his bench is so high? NO.
I said I USED to powerlift (I am now an athlete, with lifting off my mind)…maybe when me and kenelly were the same age we had the same bench press numbers…I was 202-206 and did 390 bench press at 19 years old…again I doubt this…but that’s just a stupid thing to say, he simply is BUILT to bench press. No matter if I trained, ate, slept benching…I probably would never ever reach a 680lb bench press…I’d also have to gave quite a bit of weight, and I don’t want to open a new discusiion but perhaps take somethin extra on the side in supplements if you know what I mean.
Listen…it is the shirt/fabric…double ply, triple ply…it all makes a difference. Bench press isn’t an extremely technical lift…some people are born to bench, such as Kennely, Mendelson, Jeremy Hoonstra, sincity who posts in the powerlifting forum…the list goes on of great benchers.
I don’t give a shit what someone can do in a shirt frankly…again go ask any highschooler who doesn’t know much about the sport, or someone on the street and explain to them the gear, shirts, suits etc. and see what they say…you will get a look. [/quote]
Sure a 400 lb increase is ridiculous… its ridiculously awesome. ill repeat again i am a raw lifter, never trained in gear, but i dont have a problem with people who use equipment. Sure a 300 lb bench press raw vs a 300 lb bench press geared has a difference. Which is why say to total elite raw vs totaling eliting geared there is a difference in numbers. It accounts for that difference.
Having the genetics vs actually doing is a huge difference. Just because he had good genetics didnt guarantee him to be a good bencher, and yes i think he works harder then 99 percent of the people to have gotten to where hes at. Lets say you matched Ryan Kennelly’s strength at one point in your youth and your saying that you werent able to progress as well as him because you wernt as built as he was? it seems thats what your implying.
Once again genetics vs actually doing is a huge difference. There are so many would be doctors, lawyers out there but they didnt do it. Go to some ghettos you will find some people hanging around basketball courts who could have made it to the NBA, they actually had the talent, they had potential but blew their shot. they are all the coulda/woulda beens. They dont consider the fact that they didnt train hard enough or were just looking for excuses.
Now what in the world do i care about a normal person on the street’s or a highschool kid who “doesnt know much about the sport” as you say, why would i care about their opinion? do you think a “normal” person understands what a bodybuilder goes through? the constant eating, lifting, supplementation? you will get looks
How about some other sports as well? Look at armwrestling. There are terms like hook grip or top roll, that an average joe wouldnt know anything about. Arm wrestling in the bar vs professional arm wrestling are two different things. In professional arm wrestling you bend your wrist you use your whole body if you can. Then you got kids at bars who say if you bend your wrist or move your body its considered “cheating”. What does it matter what they think?
Also if using equipment is what you have to do to be on top in powerlifting why would someone stop using equipment when its a must to achieve those levels?
Why all this talk about what a normal joe blow on the street thinks?
Isnt part of powerlifting doing ridiculous things that normal people cant/dont do?
I’m not so much against equipment (I won’t even squat the bar without briefs on) but I find it rediculous how easy and clean his 1075 looked, and how ugly his 655 looked. I was one of the guys that thought for sure he had the raw record easy…
on another note, does anyone know the name/band of the song he always seems to be listening to in videos?
[quote]threewhitelights wrote:
I’m not so much against equipment (I won’t even squat the bar without briefs on) but I find it rediculous how easy and clean his 1075 looked, and how ugly his 655 looked. I was one of the guys that thought for sure he had the raw record easy…
[/quote]
Agreed, im wondering if something happened in warmups that tweaked him a little and caused that. IIRC, on his second attempt he injured either his pec or delt and called it a day from there, so its possible that it had already started to go during the first attempt.
As for the gear/raw debate thats started on here, to quote Sebastian Burns
“Just lift and be cool with it. It doesn’t matter what you’re wearing, whether it’s a one-ply shirt, two-ply shirt, three-ply denim or a suit of armor. It shouldn’t matter HOW you bench or if you are drug-free or juiced. There are just not enough people involved in powerlifting to afford assholes”
- taken from an article on Metal Militia by Steve Colescot
Oh well…it’s been said before…the debate can forever go on…I think chrisarmes summed it up nicely with that quote so it’s best if we leave it at that…we aren’t going to change eachothers minds lol that’s one thing we can agree on.
Good effort rasturai but you’re banging your head against a brick wall. Take comfort in the knowledge that you have “integrity” a rare thing these days.
The only thing I’ll say in the raw vs. gear thing is that I’m really happy to see the strongest guys doing some raw competitions.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
The only thing I’ll say in the raw vs. gear thing is that I’m really happy to see the strongest guys doing some raw competitions.[/quote]
As am I. I hope he sticks with it for a while and sets the record; I think it’s the only thing preventing him being regarded as the best ever. Knock on wood he doesn’t blow out a pec!
He’s impressed me with his consistency as well as cutting down to the 308’s when his lifting plateaued; most guys just keep gaining weight to improve their bench. I figure it’ll prolong his career and get him that 1100 pound bench in the next 5 years if he stays uninjured.
I â??reallyâ?? did not want to post on this topic again, but when I read â??I figure it’ll prolong his career and get him that 1100 pound bench in the next 5 years if he stays uninjured.â?? I canâ??t believe people are actually talking about this so nonchalantly without seeing the lunacy.
So I will just give you these facts. Make of them what you will.
The bench press shirt was invented 1983
Pre the invention of the bench shirt in 1983 the world record stood at 675lbs to Jim Williams and Kaz not far behind on 661lbs
Since then the bench press WR has gone up exactly 400lbs. (from 675lbs to 1075lbs)
The unequipped record a mere 40lbs. (from 675lbs to 715lbs).
So all this training with shirts is obviously not making anyone stronger, just improving their numbers.
Argue with that!
[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
[quote]UNCheavylifter wrote:
so who holds the RAW record?[/quote]
Mendy
Umm, so nobody’s going to comment on how solid this lift was. It looked tough, but he didn’t struggle with it. I think he could’ve added a few more pounds. That was crazy strong.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
I â??reallyâ?? did not want to post on this topic again, but when I read â??I figure it’ll prolong his career and get him that 1100 pound bench in the next 5 years if he stays uninjured.â?? I canâ??t believe people are actually talking about this so nonchalantly without seeing the lunacy.
So I will just give you these facts. Make of them what you will.
The bench press shirt was invented 1983
Pre the invention of the bench shirt in 1983 the world record stood at 675lbs to Jim Williams and Kaz not far behind on 661lbs
Since then the bench press WR has gone up exactly 400lbs. (from 675lbs to 1075lbs)
The unequipped record a mere 40lbs. (from 675lbs to 715lbs).
So all this training with shirts is obviously not making anyone stronger, just improving their numbers.
Argue with that!
[/quote]
A bench in a shirt is a different lift to one raw. It is that simple. No-one’s forcing you to accept it as the same. Let it go. No one seems to care that the heaviest leg press is heavier than the heaviest squat. Again, no-one is making you recognise the “legitimacy” of a lift you do not respect or take the time and effort to understand.
The numbers would suggest that Kennelly is the most skilled equipped bencher in the world. Despite that, he has managed to bench more raw than anyone barring Scott Mendelson and James Henderson. So all the training with the shirt would appear to not have made him any weaker than Jim Williams, Bill Kazmaier or Ted Arcidi.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
I â??reallyâ?? did not want to post on this topic again, but when I read â??I figure it’ll prolong his career and get him that 1100 pound bench in the next 5 years if he stays uninjured.â?? I canâ??t believe people are actually talking about this so nonchalantly without seeing the lunacy.
So I will just give you these facts. Make of them what you will.
The bench press shirt was invented 1983
Pre the invention of the bench shirt in 1983 the world record stood at 675lbs to Jim Williams and Kaz not far behind on 661lbs
Since then the bench press WR has gone up exactly 400lbs. (from 675lbs to 1075lbs)
The unequipped record a mere 40lbs. (from 675lbs to 715lbs).
So all this training with shirts is obviously not making anyone stronger, just improving their numbers.
Argue with that!
[/quote]
Please read my posts… Anyway to comment on your above post, you said the bench shirt was invented in 1983 and in that time the unequiped world record only went up 40 pounds. Only went up 40 pounds? thats alot, You picked a time frame of only 20 years what do you expect the raw bench record to jump up to?
“so all this training with shirts is obviously not making anyone stronger just improving their numbers” LMAO. i actually laughed out loud at this one, you sir are very funny. you honestly believe that there is no carry over to strength from training in a shirt? i am 99 percent sure your just trolling now. As i said previously someone like john kennelly who trains in gear for the bench press most of the time still has one of the highest raw benches, so according to you since hes training in a bench shirt all the time (that magically lifts the weight up by itself) he shouldnt have that raw strength considering “him training in a bench shirt does nothing”.
As i said previously if the top competitors use equipment why wouldnt the younger kids getting into powerlifting NOT use equipment when you need to use equipment to excel in the sport. If they use and train in equipment they will go stronger. IT seems like your just bent out of shape about the numbers, dont think about the numbers for a second. If using more weight with gear vs less weight raw bench has the same stress on the muscles and allows them to grow what difference does it make if both either by using more weight with gear or less weight raw allow you to grow and progress as a lifter. what damn difference does it make what you use?
Also i said previously some use equipment to prevent injury. I forgot the powerlifters name (he had a crazy bench as well and used equipment) but i read in an article it takes him 3-4 hours to warm up for a max attempt. You dont just go up to the bar and keep adding a couple hundred pounds to prepare.
Can you even total 680 pounds man?
Baseball gloves probably allow fielders to catch 58% more balls. Does anyone want to tell them they should play raw so we can see what kind of catching skill they actually have?
If a bench shirt really bothers you you can just follow raw competitions I guess. But I don’t understand where the hangup comes from.
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
680lbs raw 1075lbs in gear! Hell of a differenece. I’m not hating, just can’t think of any other sport where legal equipment can boost your numbers by 58% !! Can you imagine Usain Bolt putting on a different pair of spikes and running the 100 in 4 seconds dead?. LOL not gonna happen.[/quote]
As is he’s already using the best shoes/spikes that are available though. So if better spikes (like the ones you mentioned) existed why don’t you think he would use them?
Far from belittling the increase in the unequipped bench press, I used the word mere in comparison to the increase in the geared lift. A 40lb increase over nearly 30 years (not 20 as you said) is what I would expect and is comparable percentage wise to the increases in the deadlift, a lift where gear does not have so much of an input. Compare that with 400lbs over the same period.
Anyway you’re boring me now, because none of you seem to realise that geared lifting will ultimately result in the demise of the sport. When equipment finally reaches it’s zenith, after 4 ply, 5 ply, 6 ply and then suits of armour, we will have to regress and start again. Geared lifting is to raw lifting, as WCW is to MMA. Fake.