Ken Lay Indicted in Enron Scandal

Ken Lay, former CEO of ENRON did the perp walk in handcuffs yesterday, after being indicted on over 50 counts in the ENRON corruption scandal.

Lay is the all-time #1 campaign contributor to the political career of George W. Bush. He’s donated over a million dollars to Dubya over the past few years. In the 2000 presidential campaign, Ken Lay was Bush’s #1 fundraiser. Bush borrowed the ENRON private jet 8 times during the election, to make campaign stops.

Yesterday, reporters with some sack asked Bush about the Ken Lay indictments.

Bush couldn’t think of a thing to say, he turned tail and slinked away from the microphone!

Gee, that will really convince the public that you’re not big business’ bitch!!!

And if ole’ Ken was not indicted you would say that he escaped criminal prosecution because of President Bush.

Haha you will never give a republican credit. What is it like living in such a paritsan world?

Do you ever try to see the other side? Just curious.

Ex-Enron CEO pleads not guilty to fraud
Kenneth Lay denies knowledge of any criminal wrongdoing
By Shannon McCaffrey
Knight Ridder Newspapers
July 9, 2004

WASHINGTON – Kenneth Lay, a former chief executive officer of Enron Corp., pleaded not guilty Thursday to 11 criminal charges alleging that he led a massive conspiracy to deceive the public about the ailing finances of the company he founded.

Once a power player in Republican politics nicknamed “Kenny Boy” by friend and fellow Texas businessman George W. Bush, Lay was led in handcuffs to the federal courthouse in Houston by FBI agents Thursday morning after turning himself in.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Mary Milloy set bail at $500,000. The prosecution had sought bail of $6 million, saying Lay was a flight risk.

Lay emerged from the courthouse professing his innocence and calling it a “tragic day” for his family and himself. “An indictment came down that should not have occurred,” he said.

Lay became the face of corporate scandal and excess after Enron’s spectacular collapse into bankruptcy in late 2001. Prosecutors have been building a case against him almost since the Justice Department’s sweeping probe began two years ago.

Experts say his indictment marks the government’s biggest prize yet in the Bush administration’s much-touted crackdown on corporate fraud.

Enron’s collapse cost investors billions of dollars, workers thousands of jobs at the energy company and its accounting firm and drained the pension plans of thousands of Enron employees.

The 65-page indictment unsealed Thursday alleges that Lay was far from a disengaged CEO who was lied to by his underlings. He “took command of a wide-ranging conspiracy” to mislead investors, Enron employees, credit-rating agencies and federal regulators, according to Deputy Attorney General James Comey.

Lay’s charges were in a superseding indictment, which included additional charges against former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling, Lay’s handpicked successor, who resigned just months before the company’s collapse, and former chief accounting officer Richard Causey. Comey said the three probably would face trial together.

In Houston, Lay and his lawyers laid out what’s likely to be his defense strategy as the case proceeds: blaming former Enron Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow.

Fastow is widely thought to be the architect of the complicated financial schemes that allowed Enron to hide massive losses. Lay said he was misled by Fastow’s financial wizardry and denied knowing of any criminal wrongdoing.

Fastow pleaded guilty in January and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in exchange for a 10-year prison term.

If convicted, Lay faces a maximum sentence of 175 years in prison and millions of dollars in fines.

The SEC also filed civil fraud charges against Lay on Thursday seeking the return of more than $90 million in unlawful proceeds.

Charges against Enron’s Lay
The 11 counts leveled against former Enron Corp. CEO Kenneth Lay in an indictment unsealed Thursday:

-One count of conspiracy to commit securities and wire fraud.

-Two counts of wire fraud: false and misleading statements in employee meetings.

-Four counts of securities fraud: presentations to securities analysts and rating agency representative.

-One count of bank fraud.

-Three counts of making false statements to banks.

Among the indictment’s allegations:

  • From Aug. 21 to Oct. 26 in 2001, as Enron’s stock began spiraling downward and questions were raised about the company’s health, Lay sold more than 918,000 Enron shares to repay the company $26 million.

-Prosecutors placed Lay’s profits from Enron’s schemes between 1998 and 2001 at more than $230 million through salary, bonuses and sales of stock.

-Lay was among principal operators of a scheme that concealed from the investing public Enron’s deteriorating finances.

-At various times, Lay and other conspirators presented Enron’s financial results, engineered to appear far more successful than they actually were, in a false and misleading manner to the investing public.

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/161042-6795-031.html

Don’t get me wrong I am not a Kenny Lay man. But I really get the feeling that he is being made the sacrifical lamb for a whole lot of financial fraud (not just his own).

Same with Martha Stuart.

Lumpy if you can difine what either Kenny Lay or Martha Stwert did wrong I would be suprised. If you are going to say fraud or insider trader difine how. Would Joe Sixpack consider these crimes. And more importantly how do this “crimes” differ from what is going on in Wall Street at the moment. Bougus company financial records. Insiders (i.e. the wall streeters) massive net sell of stock, while they try to convince Joe Sixpack to jump in so that they can sell to them.

Both really are just the fall guys. In both cases their are many other vested interests that will never be brought to account.

Lumpy,

You obviously don’t know shit about Texas politics.

Bush hasn’t been friendly with Lay since Lay backed Ann Richards, Bush’s opponent.

Your other charges are plain foolish when you look at the numbers. Enron, at one point the 5th largest (?) company in the US, donated to every one - a business that big was a contributor across the board, Democrats and Republicans alike. They spread the wealth - like putting money on every horse running.

Paul Krugman, a liberal NY Times editorial writer and perhaps the biggest critic of Bush in print, was once an Enron advisor.

Do you ever get tired of trotting out hearsay and conspiracies? Aren’t you old enough to know better?

Lumpy:

You have obviously learned well from the Michael Moore school of argument via insinuation while not providing any evidence for your key critique: Bush in the back pocket of Ken Lay. I swear some people - Moore admirers, Nader voters, and the tin-foil helmet brigade - think yelling “Enron” and “Halliburton” is a form of argumentation.

Anyway, here is an article concerning the indictment – and not that I’m a Ken Lay fan, but notice the “limited role” aspect. I’ve always thought he was a dupe – he put his own money into the company right through the initial stock-price tumbles.

Lay Strikes Back as Indictment
Cites Narrow Role in Enron Fraud

By JOHN R. EMSHWILLER, DEBORAH SOLOMON, KARA SCANNELL, and REBECCA SMITH
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
July 9, 2004; Page A1

Prosecutors accused Enron Corp.'s former chairman and chief executive, Kenneth Lay, of playing a criminally culpable but surprisingly limited role in what they said was a massive conspiracy to deceive and defraud investors of the fallen energy giant.

In an unusual response by a defendant to such charges, Mr. Lay immediately came back swinging. Less than two hours after he was led handcuffed into a packed Houston courthouse, where he pleaded not guilty, Mr. Lay held a press conference at which he sought to make a public case that he wasn’t responsible for the company’s accounting scandal (watch the video). Instead, Mr. Lay singled out for blame former Enron Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow. Defendants, especially in high-profile criminal cases, almost always decline to speak publicly for fear they could provide new ammunition to prosecutors.

The 11 criminal counts against Mr. Lay accuse him of helping to manipulate Enron’s financial statements and give a falsely rosy picture of the company’s health in the months before it filed for bankruptcy-court protection in December 2001, which at that time was the largest such filing in U.S. history. If convicted on all counts, Mr. Lay could face decades in prison and millions of dollars in financial penalties. Mr. Lay was released on a $500,000 bond.

Meanwhile, the Securities and Exchange Commission filed civil charges of fraud and insider trading against Mr. Lay, saying he lied to investors about Enron’s financial health and falsely inflated the company’s share price so he could profit from a series of stock transactions. In its heyday, Enron, which reported revenue of $100 billion in 2000, operated natural-gas pipelines and was a global trader dealing in everything from megawatts of electric power to space on the information superhighway.

At the press conference in a Houston hotel banquet room, Mr. Lay acknowledged that there had been wrongdoing at Enron but claimed he didn’t know about it. He focused criticism on Mr. Fastow, whom Mr. Lay said “betrayed” his position of trust at the company. Mr. Fastow, who has pleaded guilty to committing crimes at Enron and has a cooperation agreement with prosecutors, could be a witness against Mr. Lay at trial.

One of the striking aspects of the Lay indictment was the role that prosecutors paint of his place in the alleged conspiracy. Despite Mr. Lay’s tenure as Enron CEO for almost all of the company’s 16-year history, the position of principal architect of the purported wrongdoing remained with Jeffrey Skilling, Enron’s former president and Mr. Lay’s former protege, according to the indictment. Mr. Skilling’s sudden resignation from Enron in August 2001 triggered a cascade of events that resulted in the company’s bankruptcy filing four months later.

In the indictment, Mr. Lay comes across more as a protector of the manipulative scheme, keeping it secret from the public, than its designer. The allegations focus on his activities and statements after Mr. Skilling departed, though Mr. Lay is also charged with bank fraud for supposedly misusing loan money to purchase stock as far back as 1999.

Until his resignation, Mr. Skilling “spearheaded” the alleged scheme and only afterward Mr. Lay “took over leadership of the conspiracy,” according to the indictment, which was handed up by a Houston federal grand jury that has been investigating the Enron scandal for more than two years.

Underscoring Mr. Lay’s role in the alleged conspiracy, the charges against him were added to an existing indictment against Mr. Skilling and former Chief Accounting Officer Richard Causey that was filed earlier this year in Houston federal court. Messrs. Skilling and Causey each face more than 30 criminal counts. In yesterday’s superseding indictment, the government filed several additional counts against Mr. Causey. Messrs. Skilling and Causey have pleaded not guilty and await trial, which had been expected to begin sometime next year but could be delayed because of the superseding indictment.

The indictment also argued that the alleged wrongdoing involved losses of more than $100 million and involved more than 50 victims. Here, prosecutors seemed to have in mind federal sentencing guidelines that provide for longer prison time when the impact of a crime exceeds certain thresholds.

Mr. Lay and his attorneys, led by veteran Houston defense lawyer Michael Ramsey, quickly moved to try to disrupt the government’s conspiracy case. Mr. Ramsey said he would push to sever Mr. Lay’s trial from that of Messrs. Skilling and Causey and hoped to be in court by September – which would be an extraordinarily fast pace for a case of this magnitude.

In an interview yesterday, Mr. Ramsey said that winning a quick, separate trial for Mr. Lay “isn’t an automatic right” because the Justice Department included his client in an existing indictment. So the interests of other defendants come into play.

While Mr. Lay might not be the central figure in the alleged conspiracy, his indictment does represent a climactic moment in the Enron saga. During the 1990s, Mr. Lay was a leading spokesman for a heady era in U.S. business and a major political player with well-publicized friendships with President George W. Bush and his father, the former president. Enron embodied the drive by American business interests to deregulate vast swaths of the marketplace, and the company profited greatly from the loosening of rules in such areas as natural gas and electricity marketing.

At yesterday’s press conference, Mr. Lay suggested that his ties to the Bush family played a role in his indictment. Given the politically sensitive nature of the case, Mr. Lay said his lawyers told him it “would take more courage for a prosecutor to not indict me than to indict me.”

By early 2001, Mr. Lay was easing out of Enron on a triumphant note. Early that year, he conferred the CEO mantle on Mr. Skilling. While Mr. Lay retained the post of chairman, he said yesterday that he had had plans to leave the company by the end of 2001.

Then Mr. Skilling abruptly resigned. To calm investors and Wall Street, Mr. Lay agreed to reassume the CEO post. The indictment against Mr. Lay focuses on the period following this move. That’s also when the elaborate financial structures, used to hide financial problems for so long, became unstable and were threatening to come apart.

The indictment describes occasions in which Mr. Lay allegedly represented to securities analysts, credit-rating agencies and employees that the company was financially sound. The complaint asserts that he had, in fact, privately received substantial amounts of information from other Enron officials detailing the firm’s precarious condition. The indictment said that Mr. Lay helped construct strategies for forestalling even larger losses than those reported in the third quarter of 2001.

A crucial period involving Mr. Lay began with a Sept. 26 online forum he had with Enron employees, according to the indictment. He told employees the “third quarter is looking great” even though he knew that the company would soon be reporting a giant loss for the period because of a write-down of assets, the indictment said. He further knew that Enron’s balance sheet contained billions of dollars of “embedded losses” and “overvalued investments” and that the company “had been exploring such drastic solutions” as a merger with another company, the indictment said. The indictment contended that Mr. Lay followed up this conference with similarly misleading presentations to securities analysts and others in October and November.

Several private-practice attorneys, most of whom are former U.S. prosecutors, who reviewed the indictment said the government’s ability to win the case will depend upon how well the allegations are backed by evidence presented to jurors. “It reads like a compelling story, but right now that’s all it is – a story,” said Kirby Behre, a partner at Paul, Hastings, Janofry & Walker LLP in Washington. “Clearly there’s less evidence against Lay than the others.”

One possible obstacle is that at least part of the case involves fairly complex accounting rules. Among these: Should the company have taken a $700 million impairment charge on its investment in Britain’s Wessex Water company and did it improperly hide losses at its retail-services unit, Enron Energy Services, by lumping them in with profits at its wholesale energy unit.

Mr. Ramsey, Mr. Lay’s attorney, acknowledged that Enron had problems but said all major corporations have problems. He reiterated that Mr. Lay strongly felt that overall Enron was doing well and had a bright future.

Unlike the cases against Messrs. Skilling and Causey, Mr. Lay wasn’t criminally charged with insider trading of Enron stock, although the civil action brought by the SEC included such a charge.


The End of the Trail: Key moments in the Enron scandal

1985: Houston Natural Gas merges with InterNorth to form Enron.

Oct. 16, 2001: Enron reports $638 million third-quarter loss and discloses $1.2 billion reduction in the value of shareholders’ stake in the company, partly related to a web of partnerships run by Chief Financial Officer Andrew Fastow that had helped the company inflate profits and hide debt.

Oct. 24: Enron ousts CFO Fastow.

Oct. 31: Enron announces SEC inquiry has been upgraded to a formal investigation.

Dec. 2: Enron files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, the largest in U.S. history at the time.

Jan. 23, 2002: Kenneth Lay resigns as chairman and CEO.

June 15: Andersen convicted of obstruction.

Oct. 16: Andersen sentenced to probation and fined $500,000; firm was already banned from auditing public companies.

Sept. 10, 2003: Former Enron Treasurer Ben Glisan Jr. pleads guilty to conspiracy, becomes first former Enron executive put behind bars. Glisan is sentenced to five years.

Jan. 14, 2004: Andrew Fastow pleads guilty to conspiracy in a deal that calls for a 10-year sentence and his help in the continuing investigation. Lea Fastow pleads guilty to filing false tax forms in a deal that calls for a five-month sentence.

Jan. 22: Former chief accountant Richard Causey pleads innocent to a six-count indictment including conspiracy and fraud charges.

Feb. 19: Skilling is indicted, pleads not guilty to 35 counts accusing him of widespread schemes to mislead government regulators and investors about company’s earnings.

May 6: Lea Fastow pleads guilty to a reduced charge of filing a false tax form, a misdemeanor, and is sentenced to one year in a federal prison, the maximum sentence.

July 8: Federal prosecutors unseal formal indictment of former Enron CEO Kenneth Lay; SEC files civil charges.

Sources: AP; WSJ research

Oh, dear, not another article to read… Well, it’s kinda short.

Ken sure got around! CEO tied to Kerrys, too
By David R. Guarino
Read Guarino’s Road to Boston Blog
Friday, July 9, 2004

President Bush may know indicted ex-Enron boss Ken Lay as "Kenny Boy, but Sen. John F. Kerry and his millionaire wife also have past financial and personal ties to Lay’s shamed energy firm, documents show.

 Kerry and Teresa Heinz Kerry reported more than $250,000 in Enron stock ownership before the firm's 2003 collapse. Kerry also was forced to return a campaign contribution from an implicated Enron executive. 

 And Heinz Kerry served on a charity board with Lay, even after he was implicated in the alleged fraud, records show. 

 Kerry has railed against the Bush administration's handling of the Enron scandal on the campaign trail. 

 The Kerry campaign said the senator's meager ties pale in comparison to Bush's longtime friendship with and financial backing from Lay. 

 "George Bush and Ken Lay worked together for years, Ken Lay defrauded consumers and collected profits from it and George Bush collected a half-million dollars from Enron," Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan said. "We received one check from an employee that was accused of wrongdoing and we returned the check. That speaks volumes." 

 Kerry's campaign took $1,000 from an executive of Enron Wind in November 2001, a check he returned a few months later. He also took $250 from an Enron accountant in May - a check he won't return, Meehan said, because that donor hasn't been implicated in the alleged fraud. 

 A Heinz family trust bought between $250,000 and $500,000 of stock in December 1995, just days before Heinz Kerry announced Lay would serve as a member of the Heinz Center philanthropy, Kerry's Senate financial disclosure documents show. 

 The stock brought between $5,000 and $15,000 in dividends in 1996 before it was sold in 1997, the disclosure forms show. 

 Lay stayed on the board after Enron's collapse and a Heinz Foundation spokeswoman defended Lay in news reports amid the fraud accusations as having "a good reputation in the environmental community." 

Source: Boston Herald

Hey, as long as you have a “good reputation in the environmental community” you’re A-freakin-OK by the Heinz trust, baby. BTW, Enron was no small contributor to Clinton’s campaigns either.

One more: Editorial from today’s Wall Street Journal, which I just read – perfect:

Ken Lay’s Bad Day
July 9, 2004; Page A10

The federal government’s major law enforcers crowded the lectern yesterday to pat themselves on the back for indicting Ken Lay. But all the self-congratulation over the Enron founder and former CEO’s perp walk couldn’t conceal the sense of anticlimax.

The real cause of Enron’s collapse, the shunting of debts off the balance sheet and into special-purpose partnerships, came out years ago. The man at the center of that fraud, former CFO Andrew Fastow, is facing a 10-year sentence. So it’s telling that Mr. Lay was arraigned yesterday not for directing that fraud, but for misleading investors, bankers and regulators about the true state of his corporation.

The charges are serious, carrying a maximum penalty of 175 years in prison and $5.7 million in fines. But proving criminal intent here won’t be easy. Prosecutors have been known to overreach for a famous scalp, and in this case there is also an imperative to get Mr. Lay in order to prevent him from becoming a political liability for the Bush Administration.

Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter was all too quick to suggest that the friendship between Mr. Lay and President Bush had led to special treatment, calling the indictment “three years too late.” As Mr. Lay himself noted yesterday, it would have taken more courage for the Justice Department not to indict him.

There is no doubt that Mr. Lay is guilty of bad management. He admitted yesterday that his trust in Mr. Fastow was misplaced, and there must have been other missteps. But Mr. Fastow had plenty of help in covering his tracks, both within Enron and from its outside accountants. In a criminal trial, it is not enough to say that Mr. Lay should have known. No CEO can know all that is going on in a large corporation, and the fraud at Enron was so complex that it took prosecutors more than two years to unravel.

The government’s Exhibit A will presumably be a videotape of Mr. Lay’s now-famous pep talk to employees in August 2001, telling them Enron was still “doing extremely well” and encouraging them to hold on to their stock. Many followed his advice and ended up losing much of their life savings. That aroused an understandable anger with the CEO, who was paid salary and bonuses in the millions.

But Mr. Lay was also putting his money where his mouth was. During the long slide of Enron’s share price, he continued to keep the vast majority of his personal wealth in the stock and even bought more shares, selling only when forced by margin calls. This is not consistent with the theory that he knew the company’s true situation and was out to defraud shareholders.

Mr. Lay’s co-defendant, former CEO Jeffrey Skilling, claimed that he resigned from the company for personal reasons and allegedly made $89 million in profits from selling Enron stock. By all accounts Mr. Lay came back to the company to replace Mr. Skilling as CEO because of his personal connection to it. He then did what captains are supposed to do, which is go down with his ship.

The record of the past three years is ample proof that Enron’s political connections, both to Republicans and Democrats, have not shielded its officers from prosecution. Mr. Lay appealed to Commerce Secretary Don Evans for help when Enron’s credit rating was downgraded, but he received no special treatment. Attorney General John Ashcroft recused himself from the case because of past Enron donations to his Senate campaign. Prosecutors issued 29 Enron-related indictments before they got to Mr. Lay.

The Bush Administration’s record of cleaning up corporate fraud is on the whole an honorable one, and yesterday John Rigas and his son Timothy were convicted of conspiracy in the Adelphia fraud. One danger now is that excessive zeal in prosecution will end up punishing executives for poor management rather than criminal acts. Not only is that an injustice, it will deter risk-taking and hurt the economy.

Ken Lay’s defense is basically that he was out of touch with the day to day operations of the company, even though he was the CEO. He’s pleading ignorance. I guess that we’ll see about that.

Thunder said[quote]
“Bush hasn’t been friendly with Lay since Lay backed Ann Richards, Bush’s opponent.”[/quote]

Duh? Ken Lay was Dubya’s #1 fundraiser during the 2000 presidential election. Is this a “depends on your definition of friendly” word games?

I would say that if Ken Lay helps raise tens of millions of dollars for your campaign, more than any other fundraiser, resulting in the largest campaign warchest in presidential history, that’s pretty dang friendly. What are you trying to say Thunder? That Bush and Lay hadn’t had lunch together for a long time? LOL

As far as Kerry’s connection to ENRON, well it looks like the Kerrys invested in ENRON stock, like thousands of other people. At one time ENRON was considered a good investment, and a lot of people invested in ENRON stock. Anybody really think this can compare to the Bush-Lay connection? Are you kidding me?

Boston Barrister said I would have criticized the Republicans for NOT prosecuting Lay (I already have, a while ago). It’s not a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t scenario. It’s a “look how sleazy the major fundraiser for George Bush is” scenario. Hope that clears things up…

Your other charges are plain foolish when you look at the numbers. Enron, at one point the 5th largest (?) company in the US, donated to every one - a business that big was a contributor across the board, Democrats and Republicans alike. They spread the wealth - like putting money on every horse running.

Wow, the spin machine is working already isn’t it. The amount of money going to George was about an order of magnitude greater was it not? Just because a few bucks made it here and a few bucks made it there does not mean there wasn’t a big political bias on the part of Kenny Boy.

And BB, is there ever going to be a day when you just post a short bit of your own writing instead of voluminous bullshit nobody wants to take the time to read?

Vroom,

‘Kenny Boy’ had one objective - give financial support to any candidate in any state that favored deregulation of the energy markets. Gray Davis of California received $85000 (Dan Lungren, Davis’ Republican opponent,received $26000). Bush was a proponent of energy deregulation and stumped for Enron in places that were considering it, like Pennsylvania and New York.

Before deregulation became a state-by-state affair, Enron had a steady money flow into Washington trying to get the Feds to deregulate energy across the board.

Lay also played golf with Clinton. Clinton was able to land Enron a deal in India for a power plant. Nothing particularly screwy there - part of the president’s job is to hepl negotiate trade.

But Enron was a financial scandal, not a political one. ‘Kenny Boy’ and company put money everywhere.

In short, Enron wanted Bush to win, not because he was in on the crooked plan to bilk millions with phony balance sheets, but because he favored deregulation of energy markets.

http://www.opensecrets.org/alerts
/v6/enron_totals.asp

Follow the money trail. In the early 90’s, Enron was chumming the water. Deregulation then started drifting to a Republican Party plank, and the money followed.

Lumpy -

I’m throwing the Bullshit flag on this one -

You can’t have it both ways (sound familiar?). Either Bush is the Biggest Idiot to ever grace the steps of the Whitehouse, OR - Bush is a Criminal Mastermind.

He can’t be both. Which is it there, conspiracy boy?

rainjack,

Wrong! Lumpy does not have to have it one way or the other! In fact, that would be self limiting when on the attack.

When attacking you need to take whatever you have and spin it into something that looks bad. Hence, sometimes it is convenient to call Bush an idiot. Other times it serves the liberals to call Bush a criminal mastermind who pulls the wool over the eyes of the American public.

It’s politics at it’s worst brought to you by Lumpy and his gang of liberal attack dogs…but it is funny, so enjoy :slight_smile:

Sigh, I guess I’ll have to agree and say that it isn’t really much of anything other than a “guilt by association” issue.

Realistically, who sent what money where doesn’t matter as long as it was legal and didn’t purchase any preferred treatment with respect to matters of investigation and prosecution.

However, there is still the issue of having a pet nickname for someone who may eventually be found guilty of fraud or other criminal activity. It could show a previous closeness and it could show that Bush travels in circles that are used to making their own rules… otherwise known as the filthy stinking rich.

Taken alone it doesn’t really mean all that much…

Lumpy Post #1 - "Ken Lay was indicted in over 50 counts of corporate scandal.

Lumpy Post #2 - Quotes the story which states that it is an 11 count indictment.

Oh well, it’s just Lumpy, the most misguided and misinformed person I know.

What about Bill Clinton pardoning one of the biggest contributors to his campaign days before his term was finished?

Some of you have to learn that all politicians take care of their own.

You know what? Ken Lay was either very corrupt, or an idiot who didn’t know what was going on in his company.

Now why should this have anything to do with Bush? So he raised funds for Bush, why does that matter? If he raised funds for Breast cancer would that taint Breast cancer research?

You cannot make these connections just because you hate Bush. The Democrats already tried to connect Enron to Bush, until they found out there were a lot more links with the Democratic Party, so they dumped the idea.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Lumpy,

You obviously don’t know shit about Texas politics.

Bush hasn’t been friendly with Lay since Lay backed Ann Richards, Bush’s opponent.

[/quote]

This makes them look pretty friendly:

0708042lay1.html

[quote]You can’t have it both ways (sound familiar?). Either Bush is the Biggest Idiot to ever grace the steps of the Whitehouse, OR - Bush is a Criminal Mastermind.

He can’t be both. Which is it there, conspiracy boy? [/quote]

I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. What conspiracy involving George Bush are you claiming that I am talking about, that I’m supposed to defend? I don’t say anything about Bush being involved in the scandal. So I’m calling bullshit right back.

It is just guilt by association, whoever said that is right. I just think it is a fascinating detail, and it shows that (besides just Dick Cheney) the Bush adminstration is tied closely to corruption.

It’s interesting how this indictment is happening before the election, but the actual trial won’t happen until after the election. People have been complaining for years that Lay should have been indicted already.

I goofed on the counts, I thought they said 50-something counts on the radio. How can 11 counts possibly result in a potential 175 years sentence? My bad.

I also goofed when I said Kenny Boy Lay is the all-time contributor to Bush’s entire political career. Lay was just the biggest fundraiser for Bush’s 2000 campaign. The all-time career campaign contributor to Bush is ENRON, which is slightly different.

Why should anyone care about ENRON? Because there is some thought that ENRON’S illegal manipulation of the energy market in California may have triggered the US recession. The California economy is an enormous, and as California goes, so goes the rest of us.

Anybody heard the ENRON tapes where the guys are laughing about how they’re “screwing over Grandma Millie” and that kind of crap?

I think they should sentence corporate crime the same way they sentence drug traffickers. It can be just as destructive. You have to be a sociopath to bilk consumers and shareholders the way the people at ENRON did.

[quote]vroom wrote:

And BB, is there ever going to be a day when you just post a short bit of your own writing instead of voluminous bullshit nobody wants to take the time to read?[/quote]

vroom:

Do a search on my posts – I quite often post my own thoughts, although when I want to post on something fact-heavy, often it seems prudent to use something already researched and laid out. That, and when I’m posting from work sometimes I’m just lazy and want to use something well written and on topic. Sorry for the laziness.