Justin Gatlin vs Usain Bolt

Off Topic
21

[quote]krillin wrote:
Notice how a guy like Usain Bolt isn’t really ahead in the 100m until after like the 70 m mark; my theory is that the bigger stronger guys with their superior relative leg strength are able to get a better start and acceleration, but guys with freak genetics and top speed can surpass them.
[/quote]

A good example of this is the early rivalry between Johnson and Lewis.

All power Johnson would explode and get a phenomenal start, but Lewis was able to reel him in as he could maintain his speed whereas Johnson would slow down.

Lewis often said that it looked like he started to go faster after 70-90m, but he was actually maintaining his pace while Johnson and others were burning out and slowing.

22

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
The training of elite athletes has always been a big interest of internet wannabes… so, no wonder some of them created myths about it, and general public took them for granted… At one stage I have trained in a track and field team, and I know how the sprinters train and what is important in their training… Heavy weights and benefits from them are quite a bit over exaggerated on this site, and that is quite normal, because the site itself is mostly dedicated for weight training

WOW AT ONE STAGE YOU ACTUALLY TRAINED IN A TRACK AND FIELD TEAM!!!

LOL - it is nothing to do with internet wannabes and myths it’s to do with facts and reality you moron.

Plenty of elite level sprinters squat heavy weights and train with heavy weights in reality.

Just because you jogged around the park with a few guys once doesn’t make you Charlie Francis.[/quote]

your angry respond means nothing because you don’t know who I am, you don’t know my achievements in sport, and of course you have no clue whom I trained with.

[/quote]

who are you then? what are your achievements in sport, and with whom have you trained. genuinely intrigued.

23

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:
but competitive sprinters very rarely if at all… yes, they probably do if they are too weak and just at the very very first stages of their careers as sprinters in order to have a necessary minimal foundation. Later, heavy squatting becomes counter productive because heavy lifts are slow, while sprinting is a very fast movement, it takes many days to fully recover from heavy squatting, while legs are already more than strong enough to move the body weight. Plyometrics are way more useful for them, while actual sprinting and working on technique are the most important and naturally takes the most time of their training, and that’s why they basically train with such principals. [/quote]

Dude you do not know what you are talking about.

During off season, MANY competitive sprinters squat very heavy. It is not a “slow” movement - you are talking out of your ass. For someone proclaiming to know alot about track and field, wtf does that even mean? It is a meaningless comment.

There are plenty of videos of sprinters, track cyclists and NFL players (to name just a few sports where speed is the goal) who squat EXTREMELY heavy - all of which are looking for maximum speed and power.

There is ALOT of video evidence and literature for all of this proving that you are wrong.[/quote]

fine:) post here at least two videos where a well KNOWN sprinter squats HEAVY weights. If you don’t, then you are just completely stupid, and talking about things that you have no idea whatsoever. While if you post persuading videos you can call me the names that you have already done:) OK??

24

None of you guys know what you’re talking about since you all seem to think that sprinters lift one way and not the other. The fact is that sprinters use periodized resistance training that runs the gamut in terms of weight, rep/set scheme and so forth.

Typically, a sprinter will begin the offseason (or their weight training in general if they are relatively new to it) by lifting for muscular endurance. The sprinters who are really good starters (Gatlin) could possibly use more of this type of training than guys who are good finishers (Bolt). This usually consists of sets in the 10-15 rep range at 50-70% of their arm.

Next, they move more into a pure hypertrophy phase. After all, a bigger muscle is typically a stronger muscle. So now they’re lifting more in the 6-10 rep range with somewhere around 60-80% of their 1rm.

After that they move into the “heavy” phase where maximal strength is the focus. But as any competitive athlete who knows how to lift for speed and strength understands, ONLY lifting heavy will not lead to the same strength gains as lifting for both speed and strength will. How sprinters incorporate both aspects can vary greatly, but for the most part they’ll have a “heavy” week in which they’re lifting for 1-3 reps over the course of anywhere from 6 to maybe a dozen or so sets with a weight within 10% of their 1rm. The following week it’s roughly the same rep/set pattern, but now explosiveness is the key and they’re lifting within 75-85% of their 3rm, not their 1rm. The principles they follow for the speed aspect of their lifting is actually very, very similar to the way Thibadeau’s Performance Pressing articles lay out some workouts. Avoiding neural fatigue and increasing neural drive are the goals here.

Ballistic movements are usually a staple of their workouts throughout the season/offseason, regardless of where they are in their periodization. Again, pretty much any and all of the explosive jumps that Thibadeau has posted on here find their way into sprinters’ programs. Plyometrics are usually incorporated in 2-3 week cycles every 6 weeks or so since they are rougher on the joints/tendons/ligaments and are more beneficial when used this way.

During the season sprinters typically focus more on lifting for explosiveness and speed than maximal strength, but both remain present. However, heavy squatting is definitely lessened as the season wears on, if for no other reason than to minimize the risks of tweaking something prior to a meet. Let’s face it, if you’ve never tweaked anything in your hips, quads, hams, glutes or whatever and if you’ve never had even a mild case of sciatica you probably haven’t pushed yourself very hard while squatting/deadlifting. These sorts of issues are minor, at worst, for most lifters. But not for sprinters whose success is determined by mere hundredths of seconds. So if a sprinter has trouble squatting heavy with good form or he/she has issues with squatting to proper depth they may simply squat lighter and to less depth more than others. The most effective way for a sprinter to lift is to lift in a way that avoids minor tweaks and strains since what is essentially an extremely minor issue can become a huge disadvantage when competing against the best in the world.

25

How about Ben Johnson? Don’t know if there is a video out there

26

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
None of you guys know what you’re talking about since you all seem to think that sprinters lift one way and not the other. The fact is that sprinters use periodized resistance training that runs the gamut in terms of weight, rep/set scheme and so forth.
[/quote]

NO ONE has said sprinters lift one way and not the other - so before embarking on another essay, maybe try reading first to understand what has ACTUALLY been said.

Obviously sprinters and pro sports use periodized training: thanks for the Earth shattering insight with that one. Do you mean to say Ben Johnson didn’t squat 600 the day before the Olympic final??? No shit.

The only real “argument” here is that SOME Olympic level sprinters squat “heavy” in their training. Heavy is subjective to a degree, let’s just say 400+ for males.

One guy who is trying to make out he is the ghost of Charlie Francis says this is not the case at all. He is wrong.

Hope that cleared it up.

27

Furthermore, I don’t even think squatting is the primary component of many sprinters’ workouts. Many sprinters actually focus more on cleans and/or snatches and perform lunges, leg presses and other machine-assisted movements rather than squatting. And a lot of the squatting that these sprinters perform isn’t heavy but ballistic instead. It varies greatly from sprinter to sprinter so it’s pointless to sit here and say that ALL sprinters should lift one specific way because they simply aren’t all built the same way.

On top of that, many sprinters run multiple distances. Carmelita Jeter and Alyson Felix both run the 100 and the 200, but Jeter is much stronger in the 100 and Felix is much better in the 200. In order to use weight training as a tool for improving their sprinting weaknesses, Jeter probably does more speed work and endurance work, whereas Felix probably focuses more on maximal lifts.

28

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
None of you guys know what you’re talking about since you all seem to think that sprinters lift one way and not the other. The fact is that sprinters use periodized resistance training that runs the gamut in terms of weight, rep/set scheme and so forth.
[/quote]

NO ONE has said sprinters lift one way and not the other - so before embarking on another essay, maybe try reading first to understand what has ACTUALLY been said.

Obviously sprinters and pro sports use periodized training: thanks for the Earth shattering insight with that one. Do you mean to say Ben Johnson didn’t squat 600 the day before the Olympic final??? No shit.

The only real “argument” here is that SOME Olympic level sprinters squat “heavy” in their training. Heavy is subjective to a degree, let’s just say 400+ for males.

One guy who is trying to make out he is the ghost of Charlie Francis says this is not the case at all. He is wrong.

Hope that cleared it up.

[/quote]

You can clear it up a lot easier if you show us a clip of any of the top 4 or 5 sprinters in the last olympics squatting 400+ lbs. A number of athletes have their training on youtube I’m sure if they squat 400 they would want to show somebody.

29

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
None of you guys know what you’re talking about since you all seem to think that sprinters lift one way and not the other. The fact is that sprinters use periodized resistance training that runs the gamut in terms of weight, rep/set scheme and so forth.
[/quote]

NO ONE has said sprinters lift one way and not the other - so before embarking on another essay, maybe try reading first to understand what has ACTUALLY been said.

Obviously sprinters and pro sports use periodized training: thanks for the Earth shattering insight with that one. Do you mean to say Ben Johnson didn’t squat 600 the day before the Olympic final??? No shit.

The only real “argument” here is that SOME Olympic level sprinters squat “heavy” in their training. Heavy is subjective to a degree, let’s just say 400+ for males.

One guy who is trying to make out he is the ghost of Charlie Francis says this is not the case at all. He is wrong.

Hope that cleared it up.

[/quote]

You can clear it up a lot easier if you show us a clip of any of the top 4 or 5 sprinters in the last olympics squatting 400+ lbs. A number of athletes have their training on youtube I’m sure if they squat 400 they would want to show somebody.
[/quote]

Genuinely curious, do the best of the best athletes care about what random people on youtube think about their max squat? I would think they would be more proud of their performance if anything rather than that, I could be wrong though as I do not see this stuff on youtube.

30

typical periodisation template

Anatomical Adaptation
Hypertrophy
Strength
Conversion (in this instance SPEED, involve plyometrics etc.)
Competition

skip to 3 minute mark for 5 plates each side!!! dont care if the man took drugs thats not the point of this post

Power equals strength times speed, strength being the ‘foundation’ of all fitness qualities. Sooo strength is an essential part of speed and increasing strength should lead to increases in speed if dictated by the convesion phase…

31

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
It varies greatly from sprinter to sprinter so it’s pointless to sit here and say that ALL sprinters should lift one specific way because they simply aren’t all built the same way.
[/quote]

LOL dude i thought I told you to learn how to read???

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT ALL SPRINTERS MUST SQUAT.

All that has been said is that many no doubt squat and occasionally squat heavy.

Why you have deduced that people are claiming they should squat heavy every day and never do anything else ever is beyond me.

32

oh yeah’ generalising is a great dicussion tool but lets not forget specificity of training coupled with individual differences PLUS their coaches training philosphy which equals a shit load of variance when discussing how sprinters train’ meh…

33

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
None of you guys know what you’re talking about since you all seem to think that sprinters lift one way and not the other. The fact is that sprinters use periodized resistance training that runs the gamut in terms of weight, rep/set scheme and so forth.
[/quote]

NO ONE has said sprinters lift one way and not the other - so before embarking on another essay, maybe try reading first to understand what has ACTUALLY been said.

Obviously sprinters and pro sports use periodized training: thanks for the Earth shattering insight with that one. Do you mean to say Ben Johnson didn’t squat 600 the day before the Olympic final??? No shit.

The only real “argument” here is that SOME Olympic level sprinters squat “heavy” in their training. Heavy is subjective to a degree, let’s just say 400+ for males.

One guy who is trying to make out he is the ghost of Charlie Francis says this is not the case at all. He is wrong.

Hope that cleared it up.

[/quote]
You dumbfuck. I was writing in support of your argument, not against it. If you weren’t too busy trying to make up for the fact that you’re a lemming in real life by fomenting this fake Internet tough guy persona as an outlet for your failings you wouldn’t have automatically taken what I wrote as an attack on you. But you did take it as an attack since you exist in a world in which you have been attacked and ridiculed in real life so many times that you jump at any chance, however misguided, to protect your ego on here since you can’t do it in real life.

Get over yourself. Of course sprinters squat heavy. And when this other guy on here said that sprinters don’t squat heavy, the overt, obvious implication is that they lift another way instead, which means that there certainly is someone on here saying that sprinters lift one way and not the other.

Gain some maturity and self-confidence in yourself and you won’t automatically take every comment in a thread you participate in as a direct slander against you.

34

[quote]krillin wrote:

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
None of you guys know what you’re talking about since you all seem to think that sprinters lift one way and not the other. The fact is that sprinters use periodized resistance training that runs the gamut in terms of weight, rep/set scheme and so forth.
[/quote]

NO ONE has said sprinters lift one way and not the other - so before embarking on another essay, maybe try reading first to understand what has ACTUALLY been said.

Obviously sprinters and pro sports use periodized training: thanks for the Earth shattering insight with that one. Do you mean to say Ben Johnson didn’t squat 600 the day before the Olympic final??? No shit.

The only real “argument” here is that SOME Olympic level sprinters squat “heavy” in their training. Heavy is subjective to a degree, let’s just say 400+ for males.

One guy who is trying to make out he is the ghost of Charlie Francis says this is not the case at all. He is wrong.

Hope that cleared it up.

[/quote]

You can clear it up a lot easier if you show us a clip of any of the top 4 or 5 sprinters in the last olympics squatting 400+ lbs. A number of athletes have their training on youtube I’m sure if they squat 400 they would want to show somebody.
[/quote]

Genuinely curious, do the best of the best athletes care about what random people on youtube think about their max squat? I would think they would be more proud of their performance if anything rather than that, I could be wrong though as I do not see this stuff on youtube.[/quote]

  1. They’re people first.

  2. They’re used to being the shit and everybody looking up to them, anything they can do to continue this they will.

  3. Imagine how much Nike(insert Million dollar sponsor) will pay them if they can create a commercial with them Squatting impressive weight… Example: Kobe Squatting 3 or 4 plates+chains in a sprite commercial. Does Boxing and squatting really have much to do with basketball? … End Game for a capitalist world.

In America caring what people think makes money… Period. I’m with you, I wouldn’t care but that does nothing to promote yourself even at a 9-5

35

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
None of you guys know what you’re talking about since you all seem to think that sprinters lift one way and not the other. The fact is that sprinters use periodized resistance training that runs the gamut in terms of weight, rep/set scheme and so forth.
[/quote]

NO ONE has said sprinters lift one way and not the other - so before embarking on another essay, maybe try reading first to understand what has ACTUALLY been said.

Obviously sprinters and pro sports use periodized training: thanks for the Earth shattering insight with that one. Do you mean to say Ben Johnson didn’t squat 600 the day before the Olympic final??? No shit.

The only real “argument” here is that SOME Olympic level sprinters squat “heavy” in their training. Heavy is subjective to a degree, let’s just say 400+ for males.

One guy who is trying to make out he is the ghost of Charlie Francis says this is not the case at all. He is wrong.

Hope that cleared it up.

[/quote]
You dumbfuck. I was writing in support of your argument, not against it. If you weren’t too busy trying to make up for the fact that you’re a lemming in real life by fomenting this fake Internet tough guy persona as an outlet for your failings you wouldn’t have automatically taken what I wrote as an attack on you. But you did take it as an attack since you exist in a world in which you have been attacked and ridiculed in real life so many times that you jump at any chance, however misguided, to protect your ego on here since you can’t do it in real life.

Get over yourself. Of course sprinters squat heavy. And when this other guy on here said that sprinters don’t squat heavy, the overt, obvious implication is that they lift another way instead, which means that there certainly is someone on here saying that sprinters lift one way and not the other.

Gain some maturity and self-confidence in yourself and you won’t automatically take every comment in a thread you participate in as a direct slander against you.[/quote]

Instead of trying to read between the lines of my posts and pyscho analysing my tough guy internet persona, why not go back and read the actual words instead?

It’s not cos I had my lunch money taken from me as a kid, it’s that you are making posts without actually reading AND understanding what has been written so it gets abit tiresome that’s all.

The other guy is not saying they lift light against my argument that they lift heavy, he is essentially saying they don’t lift, or that it is an afterthought of little consequence; indeed it is DETRIMENTAL to lift if you are a sprinter as it makes you “slow.”

Unless you are trolling of course, in which case fair enough.

36

[quote]Explosiv wrote:
Sprinters definitely have a distinct body type.

But Bolt is just freakishly tall, compared to formerly successful sprinters.

He has managed to offset any perceived power shortage in the first part of the sprint with absolute dominance through his large stride.

I don’t know what kind of training he does, but I wouldn’t doubt it if Gatlin squats more than him. Probably benches more too. I’d put Gatlin’s minimum lifts at 500 squat and 300+bp.[/quote]

You my friend are single handedly going to destroy this forum.

Why don’t you ask Bill Roberts?

FUCK ME SIDEWAYS.

Throwing shit around the steroid forum now throwing shit around here.

37

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

Dude you do not know what you are talking about.

[/quote]

This and

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

fine:) post here at least two videos where a well KNOWN sprinter squats HEAVY weights.
[/quote]

You make a claim and then ask for proof to disprove it? don’t work that way son.

Maurice Green. Linford Christie all those guys squat heavy

saying shit like “slow movement with heavy weights makes you slow” shows your lack of knowledge.

Wasn’t there even a featured article on T-Nation about someone training a professional sprinter and it included moderately heavy squats?

38

Gatlin looks a lot stronger. I enjoyed his comeback, but it was great seeing Bolt light him up.

39

[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

Dude you do not know what you are talking about.

[/quote]

This and

[quote]Antonio. B wrote:

fine:) post here at least two videos where a well KNOWN sprinter squats HEAVY weights.
[/quote]

You make a claim and then ask for proof to disprove it? don’t work that way son.

Maurice Green. Linford Christie all those guys squat heavy

saying shit like “slow movement with heavy weights makes you slow” shows your lack of knowledge.

Wasn’t there even a featured article on T-Nation about someone training a professional sprinter and it included moderately heavy squats?[/quote]

It was by Erik Minor, and the sprinter was Darvis “Doc” Patton. Patton was/is in the weightroom 4 days a week on top of his track work. Most sprinters are familiar with the basics, and usually pretty strong.

40

A related topic:

When does the law of diminishing returns kick in for a sprinter when training for maximal strength in the squat?

How strong is strong enough?

Athletes can get too focused on strength increases in the weight room when increasing their strength any further may require more effort than it’s worth. The return they will see on the field from increasing their squat from, say, 500 to 550 may or may not be worth the time and effort (not to mention the risk of injury) it takes to get there. This is dependent on multiple factors, obviously, but I find it an interesting topic to think about.

Anyone?