What if glucose is <150 and ketones is 5.0 and ph 7.0, this is not ketoacidosis?
Yes it is if Iām not mistaken.
Editā¦I apologize as I looked at your post too quickly @systemlord. You meant glucose is LESS than 150, and my puny brain interpreted that as greater than lol.
Thatās borderline for a normal healthy person and I guess it would be very close to the line of ketoacidosisā¦150 BG is pretty high, but itās actually quite normal for a type 2 diabetic. I am not a doctor and I make no claims to facts hereā¦I just do a lot of reading lol, and admittedly, itās been a little over a year since I last researched Keto and all things related.
If Iām not mistaken though, a type 2 diabetic spiking into the 250 + range is where it starts to be considered high though right? And also, I think I remember reading that keto is a VERY bad idea for type 2 diabetics for just this purpose. High levels of blood ketones with the already elevated normal BG will skew the PH to ketoacidosis levels fairly easily.
Acidosis is when ph drops below 7.35. Normal is 7.35-7.45 from what I just read.
I am also not a doctor but I do follow the advice of progressive doctors. They all recommend keto for tye 2 diabetes patients. If you drastically reduce the carbohydrate intake you drastically lower blood glucose levels. Its uncontrolled diabetes that causes ketoacidosis. They may not be able to completely drop their insulin injections but can manage their condition much easier with less intervention. Doctors are tired of cutting off peoples feet and hands because of diabetes
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This is not true. Iām a type 1 diabetic and inject insulin to stay alive. Even if I ate zero carbs, my blood sugar would elevate without insulin. Insulin is a required hormone the body uses to get nutrients into cells, not a defense mechanism against overeating sugar. Our cave men ancestors didnāt overeat sugar and still had insulin in their bodies.
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Iām really referring to type 2 diabetes in these discussions as we both know that type 1 diabetes is also known as āinsulin dependent diabetesā and you will die without your injections. We are both coming to the same conclusion but each of us have our own paradigm of thought. Just as I said before, your body lacks the defense mechanism to protect you from outnof control blood sugar so you inject insulin to protect you from glucose. Your right that insulin is anabolic in nature and forces glucose into cells to create energy. Glucose will fill the muscles, the liver and also spill into fat cells once over consumed. The glucose has to go somewhere. In an otherwise healthy adult insulin is always present or atleast ready to regulate spikes in blood glucose when they occur but is not required for energy production. I find it entertaining that you invoke our caveaman ancestors in your argument for insulin production as our ācaveman ancestorsā most certainly did not maintain a diet like we see in western countries today. Based on their lifestyles and diets id imagine their insulin production was drastically lower than what we see today. Being hunters and gatherers and possibly not eating for days on end frequently. I think we are on the same page here over all it just gets complicated when your pancreas is non functioning and producing little to no insulin. Regardless id imagine that with type 1 diabetes you have to control your diet very carefully.
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"When people with diabetes consume too many carbs at a time, their blood sugar levels can rise to dangerously high levels.
Over time, high levels can damage your bodyās nerves and blood vessels, which may set the stage for heart disease, kidney disease and other serious health conditions.
Maintaining a low carb intake can help prevent blood sugar spikes and greatly reduce the risk of diabetes complications"
Iāve read this too, but remember that ācontrolledā also means VERY closely monitored so Iāll concede that point. Where the problem comes in, and where the basis of my point is coming from, is the type 2 diabetic that is following a ketogenic diet, and then decides at the birthday celebration that āhey, this one piece of cake wonāt kill meā. Well, if he/she is following a strict ketogenic diet normally, this slip up could be MUCH more harmful, and potentially fatal.
Now in a perfect world a type 2 diabetic would never make this type of decision and would just be skipping in wonderlandā¦but you and I both know that is shit, and this type of scenario is very likely. Especially for the uneducated person that is used to the occasional āslip upā.
Editā¦ Iām a little rusty on this so I may be confusing Type 1 and Type 2.
Based on my personal experience a slip up = kicked out of ketosis. Ive been kicked out of ketosis not through cheating per say but taking in to many carbs in one sitting. When your in ketosis your not a ticking time bomb just waiting for carbs to kill you. If you ācheatā you simply stop producing ketones. Ketoacidosis is pretty rare in general and ive never heard of a person living a ketogenic lifestyle suddenly dropping dead due to ketoacidosis.
Yes but you are a healthy adult male who Iām assuming has no issues with insulin resistance right?
Thatās the other side of this coin. Chronically keeping glucose low, and as a result keeping insulin levels very low, over time can lead to insulin resistance in the liver due to desensitizing of receptors.
This is the same process that happens in starvation induced type 2 diabetes.
Basically my pancreas is a piece of shit and doesnāt produce any insulin. If I donāt inject insulin, Iāll die (a very painful death BTW). In type 2, the pancreas still works (mostly), but the body has become resistant to its insulin. In may cases, its a result of years of too much insulin flooding the body from over consumption of food (a lot of it carbs).
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Thanks for clarifying. And yes, chronically elevated BG (and elevated insulin) is just as bad as the other side of the spectrum, keeping them chronically low. Both can lead to resistance.
@alldayeveryday, I think weāre on the same page, just looking at it from different angles. Even with the caveman, there were periods of overfeeding, causing insulin spikes.
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What confuses me is that most people think that cavemen ate nothing but meat. Thatās not true. The majority of the diet came from plant based carbohydrates.
Do you have any studies on this? Iād be interested in reading. Iām not saying its incorrect, but have never heard it before. Iām a high carb guy and in my experience, when I go through periods of low carb intake, my insulin sensitivity is through the roof and my insulin to carb ratio is lowered significantly.
Hereās a quick article. You can find many more via Google.
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True. But the plant based carbs they ate were low GI and probably had a lot of fiber, unlike the Oreo cookie trees we have today.
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Absolutely true. But the point stands that the diets were mostly carbohydrate based.
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Not necessarily. It depends on location and resources. In colder climates researchers say the diets were animal based. Closer to the equator was more plant and fruit based. Iām seeing people say that cavemen were essentially scavenging and would eat anything. They also had very short life spans. Our actual ancestors (not the cavemen with funny looking skulls) are probably a better place to look. Im over 60% Irish so ive looked into ancestral irish diets and no it wasnt potatoes. Potatoes were the worst thing to ever happen to ireland. The ancient irish cultures survived almost entirely on cattle and cattle products
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