Just Saw Fahrenheit 9/11

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

Flanker,

"Basically I would like to ask how any of Bush’s supporters can possibly justify voting for a man who can not even manage to properly quote a well known expression? I am refering to one of the last scenes of Fahrenheit 9/11 when Bush embarrasses himself trying to say “Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me.”

This is it? Is this a serious question?

Bush mangles a punchline on video and it’s a matter of fitness for the Presidency?

Does anyone from the liberal-left here have anything other than pulling pigtails as arguments?

No wonder the country looks a mess. One side of the debate is completely out to lunch. The liberal-left is dumbing down the political Bell curve.

122

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Does anyone from the liberal-left here have anything other than pulling pigtails as arguments?
[/quote]

HAHAHA, that was a good one.

123

ZEB said

While your point is well-taken, you should realize that the most damaging (damning) material in F-911 is the footage of Bush and others saying things in their own words. When all these scenes are added up, it paints an undenaibly negative picture of the president, with no editorial commenatry needed.

I doubt that the documentaries about Clinton featured him talking about bales of cocaine and so forth.

That is a major difference. In F-911 George Bush digs his own hole.

I wish some of you guys would see for yourself, rather than have the film explained to you.

As far as “pulling pigtails” that is a good way to describe all the complaints about 9-11 that have been posted, like Moore didn’t get someone’s permission to include their interview, or that the Saudis only have 400 billion invested in America, not 800 billion. If you think knowing that changes anything, after you’ve seen the movie, you are really deluding yourself.

124

Thunderbolt23,

Just one verbal gaffe? Just one? Have you been awake for the past three years? The man makes Dan Quayle look like Lionel Trilling. As an American who is living abroad at the moment I am constantly defending my country. You have no idea how much harder this task is when the titular head of your country spits out idiotic remarks like its his job. His academic and professional record prior to the presidency also make it glaringly obvious that he is a man with a profoundly mediocre intellect. You may call it pulling pigtails, but some of us long for a leader who makes us feel proud and not ashamed of the American educational system!

125

But Flanker, how about Bill Clinton and what he did in the Oval Office? Or how he lied to the American people? DO you think that we Americans are proud of these things? Or everything that is finally coming out about his Pres.? How he viewed the Intellligence comm. our nation’s defense? ABout Al Queda and Osamma Bin Laden? See this is where Moore misses the point. he is so mad and hates President Bush, that he will do anything and say anything, that will hurt our President. Make him out as a complete fool. He is incompentent. He cannot center on all the good things he has done. He is still (along with so many Democrats), how he won the Pres Election of 2000.
And they will never ever forgive him for that. Bush did this Bush did that. And never looked back in the Clintons PResidency. In which He inherited so much of the mess President Clinton made of this country. But you think Moore would bring make a film on President Clinton?

Or let us say this…Does Michael Moore and so many Democrats forget the fact or talk about that the plans for 9/11/2001, were made several yrs before, that President election took place? That no matter WHO was our next President. With the way our intelligence comunities were under President CLinton, there is NO way no President could of stopped 9/11 from happening. And if you do not believe me, just read on Clinton and the Intelligence COmmunity. Our nation’s defenses, under Clinton and you will see, that these are things which are NOT being brought out at all… And which need too. If he would then he would see, the entire story. As to what happened with 9/11. Also CLinton’s views on Iraq, and his thoughts on Sadaam Hussien…

Joe

126

Dad gum it, it’s his right to be stupid… in fact… HE’S ENTITLED!

127

Flanker,

“Just one verbal gaffe? Just one?”

I was referring to your specific remarks - defending a vote for a man based on his screwing up a well-known expression.

“Have you been awake for the past three years?”

Indeed. While Bush is not a great communicator, his plainspoken style is very effective. Read his speech at West Pont in 2002, or his speech to the UN before the Iraq war. He’s no Walt Whitman, but he speaks from the gut. I’m not here to defend Bush as tremendous speechifier - it’s frustrating to see him field extemporaneous questioning at times - but Bush’s verbal missteps are exaggerated just like Gerald Ford’s clumsiness and Jimmy Carter’s bumpkinism.

“As an American who is living abroad at the moment I am constantly defending my country.”

At the risk of assuming too much, I suspect you don’t defend your country and President when pressed. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it doesn’t sound like you support Bush.

“You have no idea how much harder this task is when the titular head of your country spits out idiotic remarks like its his job.”

How would you know? Do you have working knowledge of the frequency of my overseas travels or the amount of my communications with non-Americans? I’m unimpressed with your melodrama.

“His academic and professional record prior to the presidency also make it glaringly obvious that he is a man with a profoundly mediocre intellect.”

Really? I’d argue that his professional record substantiates none of what you claim. As for his academic record, it was indeed mediocre. But I’d argue that academic performance is not necessarily a good determinant of the value of his leadership - it could be, but there is more required of leadership than good grades. After all, Gore was a mediocre student as an undergraduate and he flopped out of law school - but he won the popular vote in 2000.

“You may call it pulling pigtails, but some of us long for a leader who makes us feel proud and not ashamed of the American educational system!”

Actually me too, but Bush is not the typical product of the typical American educational experience, so regardless of your opinion of him, he isn’t a good representative the ills of the system.

As is, I’ll take the plain-speaking Bush over some indecisive pontificator any day. Amazing how so many people say they tire of slippery, double-speaking politicians, but when a blunt, plainspoken man gets in office, he faces charges that is too dim to do the job.

128

Joe,
Blaming Clinton for the woes of the world does nothing to convince anyone that Bush and Co are doing a good job. It also has nothing to do with the Bush vs Kerry issue coming up this fall.

129

vroom:

Yes it does… It most certainly does have everything to do with the Bush and Kerry Presidental Campaign! The best way to describe this is the Civil War. Or War Between the States. It just did not happen in 1860, when the South fired on Fort Sumpter. This talk of the South breaking away from the Union, started, back in 1789, when the Constitution was signed. And then every President from George Washington to Abraham Lincoln, just inheirted the previous administation rulings, policies, and errors. . And had to undo or fix the problems or errors or fine tune the things the other President did. But the issue of the North and South did not go away. It just grew and grew.

Or like from the 20th century, the start of the Great Depression did not happen on Oct 13, 1929. It was a cancer that was growing in this country.
Concerning several Presidents. Or the start of World War II. And I can go on and on.

So each administration, whether you agree or not, does inerhit everything that the previous admin did and did not do. And whoever our next President will be, especially with how CLinton left our intelligence communities, to undo all that he had done, it is going to take years to fix it all. We cannot just wave a magic wand, and say it will be all fixed, when we wave it. He did allot to our intelligence comm. Our defenses. In regards to China, the Russinas selling their secrets their nucler arsenal, equip. overseas. The FALN, (whom CLinton pardoned 14 of them). ALl things which the next President will have to face. Just like whoever, becomes our next Pres. will face everything Bush did and did not do, and then other Presidents that follow will do the same thing. SO NO way can we dismiss and say that we should not or no need to look at the Clinton admi, espeically when it comes to the CIA and FBI.

Joe

130

Lumpy,

I am thankful every day that no one has filmed me and pieced together various unrelated snipits and tried to make me look bad.

Don’t you think that this Fahrenheit 9/11 technique could be done to anyone?

Now you just know that there is some aggresive conservative group that will just have to do a documentary on John Kerry. Do you see how this entire thing spirals downward?

Again, I say attack the issues and leave the man alone! You have written some mighty good posts related to why we should not have gone into Iraq. Leave it at that. This consiparacy stuff just breeds more hate.

131

Joe, its not about the situation the new president finds him or herself in, its how they handle themselves in that situation.

The past is relevant only in how we got to the current state. Whoever is elected will be judged on how well they did with the cards they were dealt.

All your bitching and moaning about Clinton is just wasted air. Obviously the measures he proposed were passed and put into effect – so people thought it was the right thing to do at the time.

Get the fuck over it already!

132

Thunderbolt23, Chucksmanjoe,

Your posts were excellent. They were well-rounded and quite convincing. I’m going to give you the ultimate political forum compliment: I’m not going to attempt to add anything to them.

vroom, lumpy, etc…

Please write to Terry McAullife (DNC Chairman). Please tell him that Bush is stupid and Kerry is going to walk all over him in the three debates.

I’m looking forward to hearing your excuses in November.

JeffR

133

Why is Clinton a better leader than Bush? Just one example, when Clinton visited Ireland the streets were full of well wishers and fans. When Bush visited recently there were huge protests. If you step outside the narrow confines of “red” America you will find that on a global scale Clinton is a much more popular leader than Bush. But you may say, and rightly so, does popularity mean anything? Yes it does, ultimately foreign policy depends on a countries’ eputation. Most foreigners don’t care who got blown in the oval office they do care when a President openly proclaims that their opinions mean nothing to him. Bush has completely destroyed the soft power of the United States and left us weaker diplomatically than ever before. I for one won’t be sad at all when we send that fool back to Texas.

134

You must remember that Geroge “Dubya” had around 8 months to find this 9/11 plot out and contain… 8 months is quite a long time to pick up on a plot of this magnitude, except when you compare it to the twelvefold increase in time Bill Clinton had before that. Than again he might have been worried with other things, since he was impeached and all. But you know… That isn’t really his fault… Well assuming we’re using the standard definition of “is”.

I’m sick of this left-wing propaganda that is coming out. One notable example is a clipping of a Bill O’Reilly quote… As shown in the repeated version “Why don’t you shut up?” Now Bill was talking to a young gay man about how he was harassed about being flamboyantly gay and parading his sex life around to everyone around him. Now was Bill actually said was “Why don’t you shut up about your sex life?” It’s a shade different in context. Possibly Michael Moore partakes in this kind of tom foolery.

Now to rip on Michael Moore for a second. As the ultra-liberal bordeline communist that he is… he is probably in support of feeding the poor in foreign countries? Now… judging by his expansive waistline he is surely cheating a small African boy out of his “humane” right to some of my food that we must ship out to him. Regardless of the fact that we took their civilization out of the stone age and since we’ve (we being civilization) came to Africa the average life expectancy has almost doubled. But hey… Thats an argument for another day.

Back to John Kerry. Now… Didn’t John say he was a Vietnam war hero. A veteran no doubt, but a hero is a bold claim. He won a silver star while over there for 4 months. He must’ve had an amazing story to tell about winning that award. I wonder why we havn’t heard it. Considering the fact that the last story I heard resulting in an award of a silver star was a young marine who pulled 7 men out of a burning building, despite being burned over 50% of his body himself. This is in addition to having over 90 confirmed kills as a marine sniper. And what about all those years in the Senate? Shouldn’t he have an apparent track record after all those years?

To sum it all up. A long post with no real vision or meaning.