Just Lost My Virginity at 23

This is reflective of one of your issues. It seems you go around constantly gauging what others are thinking. This is fine and to a degree normal, but considering you’re also running around the internet on various forums constantly gauging feedback from others is after awhile detrimental and also possibly strong to some.

Whatever! I go outside my home everyday and I see all sorts of people with mates: ugly people, stupid people, smart people, poor people, skinny people, fat people, and so on. Likely most accept their lot and capabilities in life and are not so goddamn complicated and simply went about their lives doing what they should do or want to do and along the way met partners. Oh no, they’re not all getting so-called tens, but at least many found someone who matches them.

You actually went around telling people you are posting on an internet fitness forum for feedback regarding dating? Are these people your friends or strangers? This is yet another feedback-gauging behavior of yours, which in turn, instead of allowing you to form relationships with people generally, makes you appear as a complicated person in constant turmoil, in short, a head case! Imagine if I walked around and kept asking everyone who listens to me, “Hey, do you think I should…?”, “Hey, I did this. What do you think…?”, and “I’m sporting this new haircut. What do you think of it…?” Eventually people would think I’m just fucking weird and not enjoyable to deal with, let alone wanting to befriend me.

What the hell do you think you’re going to get from socially awkward, womanless, lost, depressed, and angry men?

Again, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about considering I see all sorts of men who are certainly not hardcore or especially gregarious with women and some friends.

[quote=“dave670, post:154, topic:225917”]
I have a high IQ (not that that matters) … [/quote]

It does matter considering high IQ’s can create opportunities for people who possess them and allow for people to foresee the future and avoid mistakes and negative consequences. Do some research on countries that have average low IQ’s of 80 or less and see what basket cases they are! You can also look at demographics in our own country with low IQ’s and see what characterizes them: sloth, indolence, superstition, illegitimacy, drug addiction, and crime. Anyway, this is another topic altogether, but the take-home point is that a high IQ can make life a bit advantageous to those who use it!

Again, this can backfire if you appear to be constantly testing the waters and feedback from others on every move you and others make. That’s the sort of behavior that makes one appear creepy. I don’t even know how useful this is considering most people who met their mate did it in the course of everyday life in a relatively simple way, and it didn’t take much social insight. It was as simple as getting out there, or even using social media and dating websites, meeting people, and eventually stumbling upon a mate! That’s it! Sure for most they fumbled a bit and went on dates that lead to nowhere, but that’s part of the process for most people, even for “pretty people”. My cousin is in her late 20’s, just got engaged, makes a six figure salary, is talented, works for a major television channel in Manhattan (and we’re not talking about a mail room or porter position considering her talent and income), is physically attractive, lives in a trendy town bustling with creative young people, and she went on god knows how many dates and was dumped once before she met her fiance.

So it’s not all fun and games and disappointment-free, which is why there is no ticket or key to finding someone. You can fuck around with all sorts of PUA theories and practices and attempt to “work on oneself” (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) and still not find a mate, or you might just go on and live your life as an ordinary person and find your mate without much introspection, “self-development” and those shenanigans!

I made a comparison between the misery of being disfigured versus the misery of being womanless. I was not speaking of your looks or that your looks are on par with that of a disfigured person!

A Chad is not a man who pretends to be incel. The term is used for someone who attracts women easily because of his good looks and other attributes that make his life easier than an ordinary man’s. I think someone like you should stay off those message boards considering the amount of angry, resentful, depressed, and lost people on them. That’s not advice, just my opinion.

Yup. I assume you are depressed because of being womanless, which is perfectly understandable. I think those that won’t empathize with you are likely those who have never gone womanless for long periods of time. It’s easy for some people to just say toughen up or that you are self-pitying when they have not been through such a meat grinder.

I don’t think you are self-pitying but you are one complicated dude with a seemingly racing mind! Women don’t like that shit! They don’t to be sitting at a table across from a table with some dude who seems troubled and whatever sort of looks you have, I assume, perhaps wrongfully so, that you come across as having issues. Hence why you’re being called creepy!

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I thank you for your reply, I do actually favor tough love and wisdom over sugar-coating everything because that is how you grow. However there is far too much to respond to, at least in my post-8-hour-shift mindset at the present moment, so instead I am going to address your last two paragraphs regarding the womanless frustration. Believe it or not losing my v-card didn’t do a whole lot, it more just stoked a fire that was already building and since the girl dipped I feel even lower than before. So I’ll present you with a scenario. Take it not as a self pity litany but hopefully some perspective on why I feel the way I do.

Imagine for a moment you were never a popular guy in high school. Instead of being on the football team you chose to be a cross country runner with those nerdy kids nobody likes. A late bloomer, you grew slower than the other boys and didn’t sprout significant underarm hair until 17. You went through bullying and depression, self hatred round 1.

At 18 you attempted to go to college. And yet you discovered that with the growing social element you were out of place. You awkwardly attended parties, one of the girls you asked to pull you just laughed at you and said you were 12. The reactions from others launched you into a chain reaction of self doubt and hatred of everything that nearly drove you to the brink of madness. You sought solace in the cannabis herb beginning at that age and continuing to this day. Your studies became affected, and with slipping grades, you dropped out at 20.

The remaining years until my present age, turning 23 in May, went by in a blur of moving out of your parents’ house at 20, minimum wage poverty-level earnings, regular pot smoking, epiphanies of life’s truths, the good the bad and the ugly. One day about 5 months ago you realized that time was just passing you by and decided to do something about it and start sowing the seeds of self respect in a formerly barren field. A very depressing, ground-up journey but you realized that faith was needed in yourself because no one else sure as shit was going to give it.

Fast forward to about 5 minutes ago, you have just got out of an 8 hour shift in a hot sweatbox making shitty food for rude people, you arrive home and hear from behind the wall the orgasmic moans of a young woman being fucked by your next door neighbor, who is 3 years younger than you. A fire burns in your soul and your blood seethes, but your fatigued body simply crashes into bed, throws in a couple earplugs and logs onto an online message board where you solicit life advice from people you will never meet.

And there you have it. I don’t know what you will make of this but that’s as honest as I can put it.

Considering I batted depression on and off and was thereby womanless for long periods of my life, imagining is not necessary for me. I lived it.

My depression and poor self image caused me to be womanless, not the other way around. When I got depression under control, I met women, and even had a low level man-whore phase (not that being a man whore us anything great).

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I don’t have anything against those who are manwhores, but even without having done it something tells me it would not be for me. I would fear a cheapening sense of self worth resulting in an ultimate burn-out. Because what happens when those girls go on to the next guy? Sex is fun but I think knowing the type of person I am, I would always be obsessing and floundering, spending time and resources on fleeting women and would ultimately end up more depressed and angry.

The trick is to not blame womanlessness entirely for my depression. It may be a contributing factor yes, perhaps to an already depressing life, but then the key will be in finding something to make life fulfilling and meaningful women aside. I think this will naturally lead to an improved sense of self worth and then a more solid sexual relationship, i.e. boyfriend - girlfriend rather than just a frat boy type phase.

For me at the moment, this translates into getting a second job, saving money wherever I can, and maybe going back to school so I am qualified in something that will lead to a better future. The average college enrollment age is now around 25, so if I did this I would in no way be out of place.

There is a crushing opposite to this.

You know the girl just has to be into you because she enjoys hanging out with you and laughs at most everything you say.

So you ask her out and she says yes.

Says the date was fine too!

Completely ignores you afterwards.

=(

Had this happen twice to me. Couldn’t figure out what happened. After two dates were cancelled, I realized I didn’t want to date someone who couldn’t confront me on their feelings. So, I confronted them and said it’s not gonna work out.

There was one girl I really liked, asked her out several times. She turned me down every time. I wasn’t heartbroken, but I was pretty disappointed. Several years later I ended up, unknowingly dating her best friend. Her best friend ended up being my wife :wink: My wife and I laugh about it now.

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To be fair, I should have known from the start that this particular love-interest was not that interested in being in a relationship with anyone for a long time. A lot of the stuff we talked about hinted towards this reality.

I just fell so head over heels for her that I knew I’d hate myself for life if I didn’t ask her out.

What really gets at me is that she said yes to begin with and seemed to have a great fucking time.

Funny, a girl i was hanging out with a few weeks ago things went well, normal guy and girl stuff went on. Anyhow i thought for sure she was into me (kissed me first) two days later texts me and says “i hate you ,bye”
I had a good laugh about it because apparently she cheated on her bf with me and didnt want anyone to find out. But i told her boyfriend and got my revenge.
Girls sure can be deceiving…

You’re 14.

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Just turned 15 actually. On 2nd feb. But thats cool

Since we were already talking about weed earlier I thought I’d share kind of a mini-epiphany I reached yesterday while stoned off my ass. One of the things pot does, for me at least, is simultaneously help me stop thinking intuitively and feel more into the dynamics of life and of people. (also made me obsessed with a song on my friend’s Spotify playlist for about 3 hours and forget the rest of the day so I could pull a grueling 5-1 shift, but that’s another story)

anyway I was really high and was watching a few couples enjoying the beautiful day outside in the spot where I smoking, holding hands or whatever. For some reason it occurred to me that the bond was formed in part thru the presence of something that I have lacked and that BrickHead pointed out; that is, being a simple guy. I create problems out of nothing and my own ticker is what is causing me to fuck up because it makes me seem strange.

These kids were probably 19-21, no different than me. The thinking in my head that i am somehow different in some huge way is what the issue is. It’s a trap that is somehow wired in my head to think i am the oddball in the herd.

It’s easy to do when you have been deceived into thinking there are so many variables at play with women, which there are, but I believe the flip side is that you turn into a creature of numberical data, like a robot, and that’s something people find hard to interact with.

Being normal doesn’t mean being boring and it also doesn’t mean being an obnoxious show-off. It just means being approachable, easy-going and down to earth. All things I need to work at.

So yeah, it was a charismatic high. I think that’s what i need, along with extending the best elements of my personality to others I care about

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10/10 crazy eyes womanizer right here?

Please, for your own sake, until you find a mate, keep yourself as busy as needed so that you don’t go nuts–for real! And stay the hell away from any person or material that uses or has the word “tens”, womanizer, PUA, MGTOW, incel, game, etc.

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Haha I know, I’m just a bit of a clown is all. I agree, I think the folllowing are all forms of confidence cancer:

-PUA

  • “incel”
  • alpha / beta
  • “ten”

Staying busy? That’s cut out for me, I have to work over full-time in order to stay afloat financially but I am also considering going back to school.

Do away with the ‘alpha vs beta’ dichotomy if you want.

But do understand that postures, behaviors, and the way a man carries himself and interacts with others comprise the vast majority of his appearance in the eyes of others.

And that there are ways to do all of the above, both attractively and unattractively.

And that attractive/unattractive behavior matters at all stages of a relationship, not merely at the outset.

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I’ll give an example that i hope is a positive one. I get a lot of shit at my job, and at the risk of sounding sexist a lot of it is from women. I am NOT MRA by any means but i have noticed women band together in the workplace at times and sometimes give men shit they do not give each other. To an extent i understand it, men are threatening, rapists, etc.

But i believe as a MAN it is my duty to suck it up and not respond to it. Pettiness is not in my nature as a MAN and to respond is to only validate an image i do not wish to be

Some more thoughts, I believe a boy lives for pleasure and only for the moment and a man seeks greater fulfillment and self development. Even as i have complained about the deprivation, how much my life sucks, there is a certain unapologetic hardiness coming out of it.

As i slowly satiate that need for strength within self i am realizing the other things are extracurricular; sex, girlfriend etc. The path is what matters. Not the small victories along the way, but the strength to keep fighting.

A good friend of mine once said “We fall so we can learn how to get back up.”

dropping this thread, just saying.

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my god i am so offended!

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Listen, sarcasm aside, you have gotten tremendous advice so I figure my presence is no longer needed.

So, go, live your life, have a good time. All good.

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What does this actually mean? Like they pull maneuvers that could result in you getting fired or some other such consequence, or just stuff that gets your attention?

If theres one thing I’m sure of, it is that there is a ton of room for misunderstanding.

I had a woman take me to the deans office (another female) at college. I was pretty upset with the ordeal, and once it was said and done, the dean dismissed the woman and told me to stick around. I thought “Here comes the axe!”. It turns out that the dean was reading the situation much more clearly than I was. The dean asks me “How do you know her? Whats your history?” I told her that we had dated a little bit in my early 20’s but she was flaky and I dumped her. The dean laughed and asked if there was anything more recent. I told her no. Then she tells me that this whole situation was because the woman was frustrated and just wanted my attention. I responded “I thought she was flaky!”. Anyways, it was a tempest in a teapot of misread intentions on both parts.

So the point is that sometimes they’re just trying to get your attention.