Just Another Log

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1588

When I first started coaching Rob Stein, he was doing a 3 day FB type plan. He was still fairly new to the idea of bodybuilding, but had come pretty far on his own from his “out of shape” days and it was evident. Still, he knew he had work to do if he was going to step onstage with serious competitors.

Rob’s decision was based out of necessity. He was a very busy guy, teaching full time, running a side music business, and of course had a wife, dog(s), and the usual “real life” stuff I always joke about.

When we look back at the “old school” guys who loved the full body approaches, they never really seemed to have any concerns or commitments that made spending 2-3 hours in the gym problematic. Of course, aside from the odd genetic freaks, you’d be hard pressed to find the type of development that pros of later years (and split schedules) would display (PEDs aside). @BrickHead has always explained it really well in that when you incorporate an intelligent split, everything is hit in a direct fashion, AND an indirect fashion. This allows a very smart way of keeping the rotating recovery of muscle groups in constant motion.

Now, it is absolutely required? Of course not. When my wife was still competing, she had her day job, and a few nights a week working at a college. This meant that she couldn’t do a full split over 7 days like I would have normally loved, but, I also didn’t want her simply relying on a 3 day FB plan because I didn’t think it would yield the results we needed to get onstage and do well. As such, we sort of came up with a hybrid approach, that managed to hit the best parts of a full split, but also a couple of abbreviated, more FB sounding sessions as well.

For general population, you have to do what works well for you. Unfortunately that leaves many people following some of the really ridiculous routines written about by “authors” who have no business doling out expert advice (imo of course)

S

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1589

Thanks man, I appreciate the thorough answer!

Could you or @BrickHead expand on this? For example do you mean for a 3 day FB split, rotating through Back Squat, Lunges, and Front Squats as the main “leg movement” for each day? This way you stay fresh for each session? This way you have a heavy back squat day, light but effective lunge day, and then a medium intensity but can up the reps for the FS on the last day? I think the legs are hit in different ways through the training week this way.

I’ve flirted with the idea of a 5 day hybrid approach to where I could split up the week but also have 1 day for FB to stay with my roots in a sense.

Monday - Full Body (Squat, Press, Pull)
Tuesday - Lower Body (Hamstring Focus)
Wednesday - Upper Body (Shoulder, Back Width Focus)
Thursday - Lower Body (Quad Focus)
Friday - Upper Body (Chest, Back Thickness Focus)

I think I’m smart enough to figure it out, but I could also just run myself into the ground lol.
@robstein - Any insight on FB BBing would be great!

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1590

I think you change the stress on your body when you switch to a physique focus. The weights drop and the reps or sets increase. It’s about reaching failure but you won’t get a pump with 3 reps so you end up shooting for 8-15.

You’ll probably want to do at least two exercises per muscle group. If you’re doing total body then those sessions get really long. You soon find that a full body session just takes too long. It also takes more out of you each session compared to the splits you see bodybuilders use. Two hours of hitting every muscle group and taking it to failure isn’t very fun so you find yourself splitting it up. It kind of happens naturally.

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1591

That’s what I’m starting to see and even feel. I think I’m getting to a point where I want more variety in terms of exercises. I think I want do to more overall “assistance” work. I think you are right, eventually I’m going to have to hit the gym more days total in order to keep my training time down daily. Because I do 3-4 big lifts each day I’d be pushing 2-3 hours total if I wanted to include everything on a single day.

I’m thinking I might go the 5 day route and set up the split something like:

Monday - Squat, OH Press, Chin-Ups
Tuesday - Deadlift, Front Squat, Assistance
Wednesday - Bench Press, Rows, Assistance
Thursday - Squat, RDL, Assistance
Friday - OH Press/Incline Press, Rows, Assistance

This way I can get the big lifts done in 30-40 minutes and have another 30-40 minutes to do assistance and condition!

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1592

SWIMMING
60 Minutes of easy runs and some swim sprints in between.

Swimming is AWESOME recovery & conditioning between sessions.

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1593

Can you float? I’ve lost that ability.

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1594

Yeah, I second @T3hPwnisher’s concern. Swimming is not easy or relaxing to me in any way.

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1595

Yessss, Swimming was by far my favorite sport I’ve done aside from Waterpolo and Strongman

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1596

Swimming is one of those things that’s all about technique. I swam competitively when I was younger, like elementary school/jr high age, and always swam a lot recreationally. It was my cheat mode if I wanted to score a full 300 pts in the Navy PRT. Push-ups and Sit-ups were never a problem, but for the endurance part you had to run 1.5 miles in 9:00 which I couldn’t do (9:15 was my best time ever), or swim 500 yards in 7:30, which was nothing even if I wasn’t in the best shape.

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1597

How about doing a 4 day routine following
each day one of the big four for 4-5 sets of double progression 6 - 8 reps.
Followed by a supplemental 3 - 4 sets to failure with focus on the main lift muscle (quads on squat day).

finishing with a wendlerisque approach of 50 - 100 reps of push, pull, single leg/core.

Maybe it could work.

1598

I can still float! I have to really relax. But maybe once I get up to 200 life will be different lol.

Swimming comes easy. I’ve been swimming since my dad just threw me into a pool to survive lol. For years I hated running, so swimming was my choice of cardio/conditioning.

I’ve thought about it, but 3 days a week is the perfect amount for me!
somuch

1599

That comes from being half machine

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1600

I’m loving my current 3 days/week training schedule, It’s like my 4 day work week, I may work more hours at a time, but an extra day off more than compensates for that.

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1601

For sure man! I especially like it because it leaves room for sport activities or conditioning. Conditioning is really undervalued, especially for newer lifters. Once I started putting more effort and consistency into my conditioning all my lifts went up and I was able to hit the gym harder and fresher each session.

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1602

Thanks for the tag, always happy to provide some thoughts!

This is a super long thread, so please forgive me and fill me in if I missed anything. As your question was regarding full body bodybuilding program, I’m using that plus the split you posted to provide some thoughts.

First, I’ll preface by saying I am a big fan of full body programs, and I actually went 8 weeks of my first contest prep with full body and made progress, up a point, when I switched to a more typical 5 day split.

I think it would be best to clarify, (and I may have missed this earlier in the thread), what is your primary goal with your training? Is it to look like a bodybuilder and geared towards physique goals? If so, I would highly recommend moving away from this plan you constructed and focusing more on a standard bodybuilding template.

What I see when I look at your split is you’ve got a full body day, followed directly by a lower body day, and upper body the next day. I think you wouldn’t be giving your muscles enough recovery time to grow and will be burning your wheels in neutral. I’m not saying you won’t make progress, but if your goal is aesthetically based, I think you should train like those people train. For bodybuilding purposes, I don’t think you’d be hitting everything you need to with your above split, like all heads of the delt, biceps and triceps for example. You’ve got a press theme on Monday, and “chest” on Friday, which, if you do properly and really dig in to all areas of your chest, wouldn’t allow you to hit the pressing optimally again on Monday.

The full body program I did was the Leroy Colbert routine, essentially you’re taking a 5 day split and evenly splitting the volume over 3 days, hitting one or two exercises per muscle. What I found is that, while on paper it seems to even out, you’re doing the same volume overall just split differently, it does not provide the same results as a usual 5 or 6 day split, where you pick a muscle group and attack it on that day, then recover over the week. A well structured bodybuilding plan WILL have you getting stronger AND bigger, if you structure and execute it properly.

So, that being said, what are your goals?

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1603

Forget about him! :wink: (just kidding)

I am in a bodybuilding phase and could probably use some help.

Here’s where he started:

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1604

Full body could work each session just rotate the exercises and angles you hit throughout the week.

For example:

M- squat
T- GHR
W- leg press, extensions
Th- RDL, leg curls
F- BB walking lunges

Think heavy/ light, front/ back

The guys in the gym I workout in do full body powerlifting 5 days a week. They hit all three lifts every day or a variation of the lift each session. They do a rotation of heavy to light, to deload restore. And some minor accessories to bring up weakness.

Total volume must be considered on a weekly basis rather than session to session.

One guy is the strongest in the state and I asked him about deloading in that kind of work. He said he deloads different lifts/ body parts rotated into the system regularly…

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1605

Thanks for the info!

@isdatnutty - BB’ers don’t do more full body because a bodybuilding split is a more efficient way to build the physique bodybuilders want. As someone who’s done numerous full body programs, (Leroy Colbert, Dan John, etc.) and various types of bodybuilding splits, if you’re trying to look like a bodybuilder, you should train like one. Full body is exhausting, and IMO you don’t get enough time working on the muscle to do some serious damage, which incurs more serious growth.

If full body is the only thing that will work for your schedule, then it looks like you’re going to be doing full body. Of course full body programs work well for strength, and can certainly build a physique. But look at any competitive bodybuilder, natural or not, and 99% of them train in some variation of bodybuilding splits.

Just because something isn’t broken doesn’t mean you can’t do better. That’s the attitude of someone who is complacent and resists change, and complacency is the #1 enemy of success and improvement. Your current program “works” for you because you’ve been doing it a while, can execute it well, and are used to it. If you want to look like a bodybuilder, training (AND EATING!) like a bodybuilder will be a better way to get there.

That’s not why it’s hard for you, it’s because you don’t want to risk failing at something new or feeling uncomfortable. Look deep down and I guarantee that’s what you’ll find. I can say this confidently from experience, as someone who trained exclusively full body, hit a wall, then made new progress when switching. I thought full body was all that worked for my schedule also. However, a benefit of splits, you can be in and out of the gym in 45min to an hour, rather than a more time consuming full body program.

To be clear, you can still progress on a full body program, obviously. But I would imagine you potentially want to get more into bodybuilding because you want to achieve a certain look, and training and eating for that look must be the priority.

Doesn’t have to be a complicated program. I very strongly recommend this one as a foundation!

Read these two articles first:

It ain’t rocket science, it just takes the consistent execution of basic principles, over and over and over again. You might not look very different in 4-8 weeks. Give it a year of consistent, smart training and developing a great MMC, eat for your goals, and I guarantee you’ll have a physique you never knew you could have.

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Just. Don't. Suck (Part 1)
1606

Thanks for all the thorough responses Rob. I really do appreciate it!

I think I’m at a point where I don’t have any real concrete goals, but I want to improve my physique a bit more. I already have to the ability to push heavy weights explosively. I look jacked for my size and I’m strong enough that I think improving my physique a bit more is appealing. For example the last 3 years of just doing BB strict press, BB Bench press, and dips have left my upper chest lacking, but my shoulders and triceps huge. It’s one of those things that my chest looks better in a shirt than without one lol.

Thanks for saying that man. I needed something to light a fire under my ass! I think I have been stuck in my FB ways for too long and it’s finally time I take a clean break from it. I think I will continue to progress, probably better, once moving over to something a bit different.

I found this program on the site:

What do you think of it? I think with the switch to BBing for a bit the only thing I would say I am “scared” about is my ability to handle heavy weights. I can squat/deadlift 400+ on any given day and I wouldn’t want to lose that ability. Appreciate your insight into this man!

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1607

WEDNESDAY

DEADLIFT
405x3
445x3
485x3
500x1
425 @ 3x6

BB ROW
245 @ 5x10

CHIN-UPS
15, 15, 15, 5

POUNDSTONE CURLS
100 (in 2 sets)

1 Like