Jordan 2, ISIS/L 1

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1121

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:
It’s a result of Arab military culture intended on rallying the Mosul population hostile to ISIS and to encourage those who won’t be fighting as partisans to flee the city while they can. [/quote]

They did this in Falujah and half of the terrorists put on burkas or put down their guns and escaped. Bad plan.

When the Russians invaded Berlin, did they let the civilians leave?
[/quote]

No, they generally raped and murdered them.[/quote]

Two million rapes in Berlin alone.

1122

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
By the way, many mountain men weren’t after “land” they moved through the landscape seasonally trapping and often attempted to establish good relations with Indians where possible because their own skin depended on it. Just one example of a huge range of people in a huge range of different circumstances with a huge range of different motivations; good and bad. To make a moral equivalency between the early colonists with Nazi Einsatzgruppen tasked with systematically exterminating the population is an absurd leftist ploy.[/quote]

I never mentioned American colonists or “wagon trainers”.

We are comparing governments here, and it was the policy of the United States government to remove “hostiles” from the frontier so the “wagon trainers” and “mountain men” could go in and do their thing. The United States employed people whose job it was to go after Indians and kill them. I ought to know about this, because my great- great-grandfather was one.

And although I don’t know about your personal history, I would hazard a guess that your great-great grandfather may have had somewhat less-than-friendly relationships with the aboriginal peoples over there where you’re from. Again, just a guess.

By the way, whatever happened to the Aborigines on Tasmania? Did they all move?
[/quote]

Wow you kids really are brought up on Marxist junk aren’t you? And I thought you were a history buff and all. Can you name a single instance of Europeans massacring Aboriginals? No? Know why you can’t? Because it never happened. There never were any massacres. Not only were my ancestors not involved; no one was. Google “Keith Windschuttle” - he’s a preeminent Australian scholar who has systematically dismantled such lies.

As to my own ancestors contact with aboriginals I have a number of stories. One ancestor was a drover who was known for employing aboriginals and treating them fairly. My maternal grandfather was a country town police superintendent and I (had) an ancient “dream stone” that the town drunk(an aboriginal) gave to my grandfather for letting him sleep in the police cells when he was cold and feeding him when he was hungry. So no, I’m afraid you don’t really know what you’re talking about here.[/quote]

1123

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
On another note since we all pretty much agree ISIS is the devil I thought I’d spin this tune: [/quote]

Oh, Jesus. Not fucking Stryper. I didn’t even like them when I was a Christian.

And I don’t think ISIS is the devil. That’s too simplistic.

They’d like to think they are the army of Suleiman the Magnificent: holy warriors fighting under the banner of the Caliph, but in actuality they are just a bunch of land pirates. Landlocked Barbary Coast scallywags. Hell, they even fly the black flag.

Which makes things simple.

Reinstate the letters of marque and reprisal. Allow any privateer who is able, to hunt these pirates wherever in the world they are, with whatever arms or army he can raise, and give him the authority, if he captures any person engaging in “piracy”, on land or sea, and flying the black flag of ISIS, to hang that person on the spot.

I know a few veterans who might be interested in such a venture, and a few people who might be interested in financing same.
[/quote]

I like this idea.[/quote]

This.

Soldiers of Fortune were discussed awhile back, and I think it’s a fine idea. Money talks. Fight evil with evil we can control with money.

1124

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
I’ve lived in the greatest of times and the worst of times.

Greatest of times was when you had political giants, world movers in charge. When the Berlin Wall came down, the end of The Soviet Union, Gorbachev, Bush, Pope John Paul II, Eduard Shevardnadze, Yeltzin who climbed up onto a tank during a coupe attempt by the Communists trying to re-take command, the Tank Man in China. The world was changing in 1989-1990 and it was a cool, scary time.

Today who do we have? What do we have? It’s a scary time as well, but scary, maybe even more scary than the height of the nuclear standoff during the Cold War in during the dark days of 1962 & 1983.

Maybe someone younger than I am can chime in and give us their perspective on things. Hell, anybody.

[/quote]

Thirty years ago we built fallout shelters in our basements and backyards because we really, truly believed that we were teetering on the brink of global thermonuclear war.

Today we have a bunch of Arabs in pickup trucks who think they can take over the Vatican.

Slightly different scale of scary.

1126

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Thirty years ago we built fallout shelters in our basements and backyards because we really, truly believed that we were teetering on the brink of global thermonuclear war.

Today we have a bunch of Arabs in pickup trucks who think they can take over the Vatican.
[/quote]

True. But what I was getting at was the caliber of the world leadership’s eroded. You’ve also got a bunch of people out there who long for those dark days in 62 & 83 and want to bring them back. Putin for one.

[quote]
Slightly different scale of scary.[/quote]

That’s why I wanted to hear from a young person to get their perspective on it.

1128

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Another tangent:

What’s your take on this:

US announces plans to retake Mosul.

We should have sent them a message like this:

“If you had not committed great sins,God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you”

or

“You cannot escape from the terror of our armies. Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations. Only those who beg our protection will be safe. Hasten your reply before the fire of war is kindled. Resist and you will suffer the most terrible catastrophes. We will shatter your mosques and reveal the weakness of your God and then will kill your children and your old men together. At present you are the only enemy against whom we have to march.”

or

“I will bring you down from the spinning spheres;
I will toss you in the air like a lion.
I will leave no one alive in your realm;
I will burn your city and your lands.”

Now that’s psychological warfare, man!!!

[/quote]

It’s certainly very nice of them to post our strategy and timeline in the news paper. I mean God forbid we use the element of surprise. We should probably also explain where the soft spots in the campaign will be and put a bulls-eye on the softest part of our tanks so they can see it.[/quote]

I too thought it was a violation of OPSEC until I heard a former high ranking officer speak on the matter. It’s a result of Arab military culture intended on rallying the Mosul population hostile to ISIS and to encourage those who won’t be fighting as partisans to flee the city while they can. There are approximately 2,000 ISIS terrorists in Mosul. The assault on Mosul will involve over 25,000 Iraqi and Kurdish forces supported by American air power. Strategic surprise is gone, but certainly not tactical.[/quote]

Perhaps, but nobody can flee regardless. If they could, they’d be gone already. Human shields, you can count on ISIS using them. No amount of warning will help the innocent in Mosul. Their caliphate is a roach motel, you can check in, you cannot check out.

1129

[quote]SexMachine wrote:
The idea that Barack Hussein Obama was right about Saddam Hussein Obama’s WMDs is absurd. Saddam Hussein Obama had been playing with chemical and biological and nuclear weapons for decades and used them on the Kurds and on the Iranians extensively during the Iran/Iraq War and he was a dangerous, unpredictable actor and he tried to assassinate a US President and he funded Palestinian and other terrorists and used his country to train terrorists and invaded his neighbour; a US ally, disrupting oil supplies, menacing the Saudis, firing off scuds at Israel and he continued to violate no fly zones and he persistently lied to and misled weapons inspectors and unlike Gaddafi he was not a post-911 ally, had not made a deal with the west, was still a dangerous, unpredictable wild card.

And before the invasion he allowed al Zarqawi to enter the country with two dozen followers, recuperate in a Baghdad hospital, set up suicide bomber training camps and sleeper cells throughout the Sunni triangle. He(Saddam Obarm Hussein) was a post-911 threat. Gaddafi was a post-911 ally.[/quote]

It’s a bizarre thing, lamenting a former murderous dictator in lieu of the new danger that arose. After all, the point missed is that the situations in Iraq and now in Libya were both preventable between point of the removal of said murderous dictator(s) and the influx of ISIS terrorists.
Both situations were the result of stunning mismanagement and epic stupidity. A faith in a particular kind of humanity that never has existed. The result of half measures and a stunning underestimation of people who hold a radical islamic world view. An utter failure of an American leadership.
Gaddafi was a reluctant post-911 ally, but he was far from a hellava guy. The removal of Gaddafi from power was planned during the Reagan era, but in the end was carried out by an administration incapable of successfully carrying out the actions necessary to make it a success.
The Libyan story is really pretty fascinating if the results weren’t so disastrous. If you want to know how it came to be two names you need to know, Gen. Khalifa Hifter and the CIA.

And there’s a POTUS who told some major lies. Flat out lies. It’s always page 52 news when obama gets caught in lies.

EDIT: Tranny question answered…