[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Hate the man to your heart’s content, CB…
[/quote]
So you’re pretending the list of issues I just posted twice wasn’t posted?
[/quote]
Part of my graduate work was studying President’s.
You can pick whomever your “favorite” President is…and there will be a list of “issues” that they had that in many cases were much longer; and in some cases led to much more loss of Blood, Treasury and Freedoms for Americans.
I certainly don’t overlook President Obama’s mistakes and/or missteps…but I also don’t turn him into a Islamic-Marxist anti-Semite/Christian Hater, out to destroy America because of them.
Lmao… US is at what? 99%. This means jack and shit.
Sitting in tax payer funded classrooms being indoctrinated by think tanks and corporate interests doesn’t mean educated or intelligent.
For the reason I named, yes, Europeans are flat out moronic. And preservation of one’s life being paramount to actually living it is the first and foremost metric by which a population’s intelligence is measured. “Are the smart enough to protect themselves?”
Based on what metric?
Um no, the government wanted to disarm the citizens. Police still have guns, military still has guns. The government still has plenty of guns. Guns weren’t banned, they were redistributed to the government and the government only.
Like I said about sitting in a college classroom. If they don’t teach you the history, and you don’t actually learn it yourself, you aren’t educated.
lmao… With this bullshit. Europe also has much higher rates of violent crimes… I’m not sure about Europe, but Australia’s rape rate blows the US out of the water. And just because the slaves to the state in Europe use knives instead of guns doesn’t make the problem suddenly poof, gone.
Next time try taking out suicides and gang violence from your stats too.
No, you said Europe’s standards, and I told you that unequivocally we don’t give a fuck what Europe thinks. You guys have fucked up enough (Germany twice, your current debt issues, Greece… Just in the last 100 years alone) that we don’t really need your opinion when it comes to who’s “left or not”.
By America’s standard, the one that actually matters in discussing American POTUS, he is quite leftist, as is the typical Democrat in today’s US. The pendulum will swing back soon enough and we’ll shift right again.
I’m not really sure WTF you are talking about. You’re telling me letter voters only get mad when their team drops the ball? GASP! NO! Can’t be true.
You seem fond of attacking the person saying things, not what is said. Nice fallacy here. Sure does make a great point to rebut.
YOu can continue to assume you have any fucking clue who I am, or how I live my life. It’s sure to work out really well for you.
What are you talking about? Obama started the civil war:
[/quote]
What? Obama started the civil war? This is more ahistorical bullshit.
From the lede of your source:
[quote]
President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, government officials told Reuters on Wednesday.[/quote]
Logic 101: If you’re trying to argue (absolutely incorrectly) that [Person A] started [War B] between [Group C] and [Dictator D], and you cite an article in which [Person A] is said to be offering help to [Group B] – which is already at war with [Dictator D] – you’ve accomplished exactly nothing.[/quote]
I don’t know what you’re talking about with all that Person A stuff. [/quote]
I don’t know how to be clearer. You said that…
[quote]
Obama started the civil war[/quote]
…which is plain nonsense. And you attended to that plain nonsense an article that did not remotely begin to evidence it. First we had Obama the violence-inciter who, oh wait, didn’t incite violence and in fact explicitly pleaded for peace. Then we had Obama the not-communist communist. Now we have Obama, who started the 2011 civil war in Libya. If you are not going to get the basic facts down – as you uncharacteristically show no sign of even considering doing – I’m not going to make an argument as complex as one about whether or not Libya would have reaped more benefit, vis-a-vis extremist terrorism, from our non-intervention in 2011.
So the continuation of the patriot act brought by a right wing government is proof Obama is a liberal?[/quote]
It’s proof he is a leftist. Leftist = total government control.
In contemporary America “Liberal” = leftist.
The non-derogatory “liberal” refers to the non-shitty portions of each of the parties really.
You’re lacking in basic reasoning skills then.
I’m not holding your hand through this.
How so?
I’m not holding my breath, because that list was in response to an entirely different question than you are applying here, so you’ll never actually address what I say, because you’re proving to be disingenuous, but please, how so?
What are you talking about? Obama started the civil war:
[/quote]
What? Obama started the civil war? This is more ahistorical bullshit.
From the lede of your source:
[quote]
President Barack Obama has signed a secret order authorizing covert U.S. government support for rebel forces seeking to oust Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, government officials told Reuters on Wednesday.[/quote]
Logic 101: If you’re trying to argue (absolutely incorrectly) that [Person A] started [War B] between [Group C] and [Dictator D], and you cite an article in which [Person A] is said to be offering help to [Group B] – which is already at war with [Dictator D] – you’ve accomplished exactly nothing.[/quote]
I don’t know what you’re talking about with all that Person A stuff. [/quote]
I don’t know how to be clearer. You said that…
[quote]
Obama started the civil war[/quote]
…which is plain nonsense. And you attended to that plain nonsense an article that did not remotely begin to evidence it. First we had Obama the violence-inciter who, oh wait, didn’t incite violence and in fact explicitly pleaded for peace. Then we had Obama the not-communist communist. Now we have Obama, who started the 2011 civil war in Libya. If you are not going to get the basic facts down – as you uncharacteristically show no sign of even considering doing – I’m not going to make an argument as complex as one about whether or not Libya would have reaped more benefit, vis-a-vis extremist terrorism, from our non-intervention in 2011.[/quote]
He did start the civil war in Libya. I’m not going to waste my time arguing it. There were some civil demonstrations then Obama shipped in arms and began coordinating attacks on the Gaddafi regime to bring down his government. It was his doing and never would’ve happened if not for him.
Lmao… US is at what? 99%. This means jack and shit.
Sitting in tax payer funded classrooms being indoctrinated by think tanks and corporate interests doesn’t mean educated or intelligent.
For the reason I named, yes, Europeans are flat out moronic. And preservation of one’s life being paramount to actually living it is the first and foremost metric by which a population’s intelligence is measured. “Are the smart enough to protect themselves?”
Based on what metric?
Um no, the government wanted to disarm the citizens. Police still have guns, military still has guns. The government still has plenty of guns. Guns weren’t banned, they were redistributed to the government and the government only.
Like I said about sitting in a college classroom. If they don’t teach you the history, and you don’t actually learn it yourself, you aren’t educated.
lmao… With this bullshit. Europe also has much higher rates of violent crimes… I’m not sure about Europe, but Australia’s rape rate blows the US out of the water. And just because the slaves to the state in Europe use knives instead of guns doesn’t make the problem suddenly poof, gone.
Next time try taking out suicides and gang violence from your stats too.
No, you said Europe’s standards, and I told you that unequivocally we don’t give a fuck what Europe thinks. You guys have fucked up enough (Germany twice, your current debt issues, Greece… Just in the last 100 years alone) that we don’t really need your opinion when it comes to who’s “left or not”.
By America’s standard, the one that actually matters in discussing American POTUS, he is quite leftist, as is the typical Democrat in today’s US. The pendulum will swing back soon enough and we’ll shift right again.
I’m not really sure WTF you are talking about. You’re telling me letter voters only get mad when their team drops the ball? GASP! NO! Can’t be true.
You seem fond of attacking the person saying things, not what is said. Nice fallacy here. Sure does make a great point to rebut.
YOu can continue to assume you have any fucking clue who I am, or how I live my life. It’s sure to work out really well for you. [/quote]
No Europe does not have higher violent crime, this is laughable.
If preservation of life is so important banning guns drops murder rates, 25 is the upper of most European nations, tens of thousands is the USA. Who preserves life best?
Every peoples have committed genocide, invaded, raped and pilaged, the U.S was founded on the conquest and genocide of natives and slavery built the capital of your Nation. Germany, France, Italy, U.S all have bloody pasts, bringing up Germany and ignoring your own is textbook whitewashing and cognitive dissonance.
Again you are really saying nothing of actual value, you are just raving and ranting and swearing on the internet like a big man.
Yes most European people supported gun control, just look at polls and see what the French or Welsh or Belgians think about guns. Their governments did not force unwanted bans, the population as a whole overwhelmingly demanded something be done. This resulted in staggering drops in gun crime. Not everything is a conspiracy.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
He did start the civil war in Libya. I’m not going to waste my time arguing it. There were some civil demonstrations then Obama shipped in arms and began coordinating attacks on the Gaddafi regime to bring down his government. [/quote]
You’re right not to waste your time arguing it, because you are simply wrong and this is easily demonstrable (this seems to be PWI’s principal fact-free thread at the moment). Your source is dated March 30 and claims the presidential “finding” to have been signed by Obama two or three weeks prior. By that time, two of Libya’s three largest cities were rebel-controlled (along with all of the eastern part of the country) and the fighting had been going on for a month. To call this “some civil demonstrations and then…” is simple ignorance of the basic manner in which the conflict unfolded, and I don’t see why we would continue with the debate if this is the level at which it’s going to be taking place. This is one of many sources you can consult if you want to scroll back to February and get this matter straight:
I only skimmed through a bunch of pages… I don’t see a single chart without one or multiple European nations finishing with worse rates than the US. I did find the chart on page 129 quite amusing though.
and this from page 158:
The results of the ICVS 2005 show that on average 15.7% of citizens
suffered at least one form of victimisation in the year preceding the
interview. Of people who lived in main cities 21.7% was victimised. The
countries with the highest prevalence rates for conventional crime are
Ireland, England & Wales, New Zealand and Iceland. Contrary to common
perception, overall rates of volume crime â?? such as burglary, robbery
and assault & threats â?? are not higher in the USA than in most parts of
Western Europe. In fact USA rates are significantly lower than those of,
for example, Ireland and England & Wales.
The country who’s citizens refuse to be disarmed. Again, that pesky history thing just comes back to bite Europe in the ass.
Government has killed more people than any plague, any war or any other man made institution in man’s history. SO therefore any nation who’s citizens willfully allow themselves to be disarmed while their government is armed certainly isn’t preserving life in any stretch of the imagination.
But that would never happen to you right? I bet the jews in Europe circa 1910 said the same things.
Utter bullshit. Why this fails is because I never said America was perfect. I said we don’t give two fucks about Europe’s opinion of us. I and say that because, you don’t live here, and have plenty skeleton’s in your closet too.
You pointing out the “genocide” and slavery is fallacious and irrelevant to anything I’ve said. You’re grasping at (short) straws here.
Again, you are committing a logical fallacy of commenting on the person saying things, and not what that person is saying.
[quote]4. Yes most European people supported gun control, just look at polls and see what the French or Welsh or Belgians think about guns. Their governments did not force unwanted bans, the population as a whole overwhelmingly demanded something be done. This resulted in staggering drops in gun crime. Not everything is a conspiracy.
[/quote]
Thankfully, in America, we can’t vote away rights. Enjoy that tyranny.
It’s hilarious you dodge the entire part about how you aren’t actually banning guns. Just taking them away from citizens… Telling.
You claimed ISIS affiliated jihadists were worse especially for the recent christians beheaded. I merely employed your logic and stated that Gadaffi was worse for the thousands of tortured, disappeared and executed by his regime.
[/quote]
Gadaffi was in power for 42 years. You mean to tell me that if ISIS happens to be in power for 42 years they won’t tally up an equally high death toll?
except, of course Jordan is not considered a Western country, nor is a democracy, nor is it bound by idealism, & universal freedom.
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wow really?[/quote]
Yeah, we’re talking about how Jordan hung 2 terrorists after ISIS burned their captured pilot. What the West, idealism and universal freedom have to do with that I don’t know. The West and US had nothing to do with this situation. If I am wrong, please tell me how.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Thankfully, in America, we can’t vote away rights. [/quote]
True. When our rights are taken away, we generally don’t have the opportunity to vote on it. I was never asked to vote on the U.S. Patriot Act, were you?
True. When our rights are taken away, we generally don’t have the opportunity to vote on it. I was never asked to vote on the U.S. Patriot Act, were you?
[/quote]
No. Our system isn’t perfect, not by a long shot. However… We do have a way to rectify the situation, but it is going to be a long, hard road. Courts and voting in non-assholes. Thankfully we have a document for the courts to look to, assuming they are cunts too.
Because most people here think “I’ve got nothing to hide, what do I care”. It’s pathetic.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Thankfully, in America, we can’t vote away rights. [/quote]
True. When our rights are taken away, we generally don’t have the opportunity to vote on it. I was never asked to vote on the U.S. Patriot Act, were you?
I don’t, actually.[/quote]
What (natural) rights do you enjoy in Japan?[/quote]
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of fine Asian women.
And not ever, ever, ever having to even think about the possibility of being shot by a policeman.