Jordan 2, ISIS/L 1

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
301

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Oh and what he said should, you know, actually incite people to violence.[/quote]

How about this…he did not just come out and say KEEL ALL ZEE JOOOS!!

But the angry folks in the black community felt empowered by how Obama and Holder rushed in and defended two black suspects simply because they were BLACK.

It might make a portion of the black population think “hey, we can kill whitey and the Prez has our back”[/quote]

Now we take a step back to “it might make a portion…think.” Not exactly inciting violence anymore. But we’re still not at the truth:

What might make them think that? What words – be specific – did Obama say that “might make a portion of the black population think ‘hey, we can kill whitey and the Prez has our back.’” Keep in mind that people are only responsible for what they say vis-a-vis their words as understood under the interpretation of a reasonable mind. That is, the Beatles aren’t responsible for the Manson Family murders.[/quote]

When Obama decided to turn the Trayvon Martin shooting into his own personal crusade, he could have foreseen that racial violence would ensue. A reasonable person would foresee that.[/quote]

So you don’t have any words inciting violence. OK.[/quote]

Paraphrase: Travon could be my son.

302

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

Paraphrase: Travon could be my son.
[/quote]

So you don’t have any words inciting violence. OK.

303

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
It’s certainly better than what his predecessor did, which was to create more terrorists out of thin air in as short a span of time as possible by irrevocably (and on mendacious grounds) fucking up one of the two countries on whose destabilization IS is existentially dependent.[/quote]

What? Under Obama’s watch we had Egypt, Tunisia, Iraq, Libya & Yemen all fall. We have many more nations now on the verge of destabilization and a massive terrorist breeding ground the size of a US state in Syria & Iraq.
[/quote]

“Under [X’s] watch” is a slimy little phrase.

Under W. Bush’s watch the worst terrorist attack in American history was perpetrated on American soil. See how “under his watch” is bullshit?

When you’re criticizing a president, you’ve got to choose a decision he made and show why it was the wrong decision, not list some shit that happened in the world (Tunisia? Are you kidding?). We went over this in extensive detail fairly recently, in the chemical weapons argument. I am most certainly not doing it again.

304

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(Tunisia? Are you kidding?). [/quote]

No, do you know how many foreign fighters in Syria who are members of ISIS are from Tunisia?

305

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(Tunisia? Are you kidding?). [/quote]

No, do you know how many foreign fighters in Syria who are members of ISIS are from Tunisia?[/quote]

And how exactly did Tunisia get the way it is today, do you know?

306

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

Paraphrase: Travon could be my son.
[/quote]

So you don’t have any words inciting violence. OK.[/quote]

“In too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of colorâ?¦ We need to recognize that this is not just an issue for Ferguson. This is an issue for America.”

“Too many young men of color feel targeted by law enforcement â?? guilty of walking while black or driving while black, judged by stereotypes that fuel fear and resentment and hopelessness,”

If you can’t see how this plays into the hands of the protesters, hell, it’s THE RHETORIC of the protesters!! He might as well be giving a speech next to freaking Sharpton.

What about this:

307

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(Tunisia? Are you kidding?). [/quote]

No, do you know how many foreign fighters in Syria who are members of ISIS are from Tunisia?[/quote]

And how exactly did Tunisia get the way it is today, do you know?[/quote]

They had a revolution, the start of the so-called Arab Spring, heralded by Obama as some sort of birth place of Arab Democracy where they would all dance with unicorns under rainbows and sing kum-by-ah.

Well now we got ISIS.

Do you think Libya is more safe now or under Qaddafi? Was it wise for us to help his people overthrow him? You may laugh at Tunisia, but there’s no denying Obama had a hand in the destabilization of Libya.

And how exactly do you hold Bush accountable for 9-11? It happened at the beginning of his term. Obama has been in for 2 terms.

And please tell me how the world is a safer place under Obama.

308

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(Tunisia? Are you kidding?). [/quote]

No, do you know how many foreign fighters in Syria who are members of ISIS are from Tunisia?[/quote]

And how exactly did Tunisia get the way it is today, do you know?[/quote]

They had a revolution, the start of the so-called Arab Spring, heralded by Obama as some sort of birth place of Arab Democracy where they would all dance with unicorns under rainbows and sing kum-by-ah.

Well now we got ISIS.

Do you think Libya is more safe now or under Qaddafi? Was it wise for us to help his people overthrow him? You may laugh at Tunisia, but there’s no denying Obama had a hand in the destabilization of Libya.

And how exactly do you hold Bush accountable for 9-11? It happened at the beginning of his term. Obama has been in for 2 terms.

And please tell me how the world is a safer place under Obama.[/quote]

I don’t hold Bush responsible for 9-11, at all. Did you really not understand that point?

Re: Tunisia, I am asking what specific decision Obama made about Tunisia which you are criticizing, and what you’d have done differently given the information available at the time, and why you’d have done it differently.

309

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

Paraphrase: Travon could be my son.
[/quote]

So you don’t have any words inciting violence. OK.[/quote]

“In too many parts of this country, a deep distrust exists between law enforcement and communities of colorâ?¦ We need to recognize that this is not just an issue for Ferguson. This is an issue for America.”

“Too many young men of color feel targeted by law enforcement â?? guilty of walking while black or driving while black, judged by stereotypes that fuel fear and resentment and hopelessness,”

If you can’t see how this plays into the hands of the protesters, hell, it’s THE RHETORIC of the protesters!! He might as well be giving a speech next to freaking Sharpton.

What about this:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/17/obama-told-civil-rights-activists-keep-ferguson-staying-on-course/[/quote]

So you don’t have any words inciting violence. OK.

310

Oh, and while he was wrong about Ferguson, he’s not all wrong about black people and the cops. I live in a city, for example, that has unconstitutionally been searching black and brown dudes for the last decade. You don’t think that’s a problem, that’s your own problem.

311

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What about this:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/17/obama-told-civil-rights-activists-keep-ferguson-staying-on-course/[/quote]

You’re trying to argue that Barack Obama incited violence in Ferguson by citing an article in which the most prominent figure involved in the protests says that “[Obama] said he hopes that we’re doing all we can to keep peace.”

Thank about that for a little while.

This thread has become a parody of idiotic argumentation.

312

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Oh, and while he was wrong about Ferguson, he’s not all wrong about black people and the cops. I live in a city, for example, that has unconstitutionally been searching black and brown dudes for the last decade. You don’t think that’s a problem, that’s your own problem.[/quote]

And I grew up in a neighborhood what was 90% latino and I got jumped damn near every day…for being white.

Cops laughed and told me to move.

Life sometimes sucks.

313

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Oh, and while he was wrong about Ferguson, he’s not all wrong about black people and the cops. I live in a city, for example, that has unconstitutionally been searching black and brown dudes for the last decade. You don’t think that’s a problem, that’s your own problem.[/quote]

And I grew up in a neighborhood what was 90% latino and I got jumped damn near every day…for being white.

Cops laughed and told me to move.

Life sometimes sucks.[/quote]

“Sometimes life sucks” is the wrong line in response to the state unconstitutionally searching citizens.

314

And I got jumped as a kid too, by fully-grown gypsies in northern Spain, very often. It fucking sucked, as I’m sure it did for you. Cops never did anything.

Still not remotely the same thing.

315

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Oh, and while he was wrong about Ferguson, he’s not all wrong about black people and the cops. I live in a city, for example, that has unconstitutionally been searching black and brown dudes for the last decade. You don’t think that’s a problem, that’s your own problem.[/quote]

And I grew up in a neighborhood what was 90% latino and I got jumped damn near every day…for being white.

Cops laughed and told me to move.

Life sometimes sucks.[/quote]

“Sometimes life sucks” is the wrong line in response to the state unconstitutionally searching citizens.[/quote]

How do you know they were unconstitutional searches? Maybe there was a known gang banger in the car, or a guy late on his child support or a guy with a warrant or a taillight out.

Unless you were at every stop, all you are hearing is “DAMN PIGS DONE PULLED ME OVER FOR DRIVIN BLACK”

“why did they pull you over?”

“no taillights” “but they was white”

316

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Oh, and while he was wrong about Ferguson, he’s not all wrong about black people and the cops. I live in a city, for example, that has unconstitutionally been searching black and brown dudes for the last decade. You don’t think that’s a problem, that’s your own problem.[/quote]

And I grew up in a neighborhood what was 90% latino and I got jumped damn near every day…for being white.

Cops laughed and told me to move.

Life sometimes sucks.[/quote]

“Sometimes life sucks” is the wrong line in response to the state unconstitutionally searching citizens.[/quote]

How do you know they were unconstitutional searches? Maybe there was a known gang banger in the car, or a guy late on his child support or a guy with a warrant or a taillight out.

Unless you were at every stop, all you are hearing is “DAMN PIGS DONE PULLED ME OVER FOR DRIVIN BLACK”

“why did they pull you over?”

“no taillights” “but they was white”

[/quote]

I’m talking about pedestrian stop & frisk, and I know because both a district and appeals court say it was unconstitutional and because I have seen black guys from an ivy league graduate school stopped, but have never been stopped myself despite my working in the same neighborhoods. But mostly the first part.

317

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Oh, and while he was wrong about Ferguson, he’s not all wrong about black people and the cops. I live in a city, for example, that has unconstitutionally been searching black and brown dudes for the last decade. You don’t think that’s a problem, that’s your own problem.[/quote]

And I grew up in a neighborhood what was 90% latino and I got jumped damn near every day…for being white.

Cops laughed and told me to move.

Life sometimes sucks.[/quote]

“Sometimes life sucks” is the wrong line in response to the state unconstitutionally searching citizens.[/quote]

How do you know they were unconstitutional searches? Maybe there was a known gang banger in the car, or a guy late on his child support or a guy with a warrant or a taillight out.

Unless you were at every stop, all you are hearing is “DAMN PIGS DONE PULLED ME OVER FOR DRIVIN BLACK”

“why did they pull you over?”

“no taillights” “but they was white”

[/quote]

I’m talking about pedestrian stop & frisk, and I know because both a district and appeals court say it was unconstitutional and because I have seen black guys from an ivy league graduate school stopped, but have never been stopped myself despite my working in the same neighborhoods. But mostly the first part.[/quote]

That’s fucked up, no doubt…stop and frisk is FUCKING INSANE.

We are on the same page there.

318

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Oh, and while he was wrong about Ferguson, he’s not all wrong about black people and the cops. I live in a city, for example, that has unconstitutionally been searching black and brown dudes for the last decade. You don’t think that’s a problem, that’s your own problem.[/quote]

And I grew up in a neighborhood what was 90% latino and I got jumped damn near every day…for being white.

Cops laughed and told me to move.

Life sometimes sucks.[/quote]

“Sometimes life sucks” is the wrong line in response to the state unconstitutionally searching citizens.[/quote]

How do you know they were unconstitutional searches? Maybe there was a known gang banger in the car, or a guy late on his child support or a guy with a warrant or a taillight out.

Unless you were at every stop, all you are hearing is “DAMN PIGS DONE PULLED ME OVER FOR DRIVIN BLACK”

“why did they pull you over?”

“no taillights” “but they was white”

[/quote]

I’m talking about pedestrian stop & frisk, and I know because both a district and appeals court say it was unconstitutional and because I have seen black guys from an ivy league graduate school stopped, but have never been stopped myself despite my working in the same neighborhoods. But mostly the first part.[/quote]

That’s fucked up, no doubt…stop and frisk is FUCKING INSANE.

We are on the same page there.[/quote]

Honestly I have less sympathy for car stops for the exact reason that you gave: so many of them are objectively legitimate: tail light, etc. Lots of black guys get pulled over in black neighborhoods because that’s where they drive. We all get pulled over from time to time.

S&F, on the other hand.

But I should reiterate that I am utterly with PWI on Ferguson. Clear and simple case of authorized use of force.

319

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
(Tunisia? Are you kidding?). [/quote]

No, do you know how many foreign fighters in Syria who are members of ISIS are from Tunisia?[/quote]

And how exactly did Tunisia get the way it is today, do you know?[/quote]

They had a revolution, the start of the so-called Arab Spring, heralded by Obama as some sort of birth place of Arab Democracy where they would all dance with unicorns under rainbows and sing kum-by-ah.

Well now we got ISIS.

Do you think Libya is more safe now or under Qaddafi? Was it wise for us to help his people overthrow him? You may laugh at Tunisia, but there’s no denying Obama had a hand in the destabilization of Libya.

And how exactly do you hold Bush accountable for 9-11? It happened at the beginning of his term. Obama has been in for 2 terms.

And please tell me how the world is a safer place under Obama.[/quote]

I don’t hold Bush responsible for 9-11, at all. Did you really not understand that point?

Re: Tunisia, I am asking what specific decision Obama made about Tunisia which you are criticizing, and what you’d have done differently given the information available at the time, and why you’d have done it differently.

[/quote]

And I am asking questions of my own that you have failed to answer.

Obama praised the Arab Spring and claimed it was a great thing. What would I have done differently? I would have first stood by Mubarak in Egypt and not supported the Muslim Brotherhood take over of the government there. I would not have agreed to let NATO jets bomb Libya and drive the country into turmoil. I would have supported an exit treaty with Iraq leaving some of our forces in the country to prevent the take over by ISIS. And when I heard about ISIS I would not have called them the J.V. team and I would have treated it seriously.

320

[quote]smh_23 wrote:

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
What about this:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/17/obama-told-civil-rights-activists-keep-ferguson-staying-on-course/[/quote]

You’re trying to argue that Barack Obama incited violence in Ferguson by citing an article in which the most prominent figure involved in the protests says that “[Obama] said he hopes that we’re doing all we can to keep peace.”

Thank about that for a little while.

This thread has become a parody of idiotic argumentation.[/quote]

Keeping the peace by using words which help inflame the situation? Why should the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA insert himself into a potentially hazardous situation by condoning the stereotype of racist white cops who are out to shoot unarmed black citizens? He should have damn well stayed clear of that argument as the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. He could have called for peace and calm, and also avoided words which to some add fuel to the fire.

Saying: “Too many young men of color feel targeted by law enforcement Ã?¢?? guilty of walking while black or driving while black, judged by stereotypes that fuel fear and resentment and hopelessness,”…

what the hell do you think that means to a group of enraged people who feel whitey is out to kill them? Feeling targeted by law enforcement? Targeted for what? How do you know how people with the mindset to burn the town down would take this statement? He shouldn’t have said it.