[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
They could have dropped it over a military target.
Wow. You need to learn more about wartime Hiroshima.
[/quote]
And some of you need to learn more about todays Germany:
Or maybe that.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
While I do think that to drop the bomb was a quick way to end the war and therefore the general suffering, the carpet bombings in Europe and Japan were taken from the British colonial playbook where they would simply destroy a village from the air to let it be a warning to others.
This policy specifically targeted civilians in order to break their spirit, shock and awe if you will.
Or in other words terrorism and yes, a war crime.
Attacking places like Tokyo with millions of people and wood and paper houses with fire bombs did little to soften their resolve, it did create a flaming inferno though that let hundred of thousands of people die an unimaginably painful death.
To be fair though it was Churchill who introduced that little gem into WWII.
Rank nonsense, once again.
Perhaps Austrian schools skip the Battle of Britain.
Coventry, VI, VII…
Yadayadayada, completely missing the point as usual -
because we already know that the Nazis and the Japanese military committed war crimes.
That still does not, and did not, make the deliberate carpet bombing of civilian targets excusable.
It is not a matter of making excuses. Those bombings were justified because of the way the German and Japanese people behaved. They were undeniably the meanest, cruelest, people on the planet.
To win that war we had to do a lot more than just defeat your army. We had to beat the mean out of you. We had to beat the mean out of you so much that you fuckers would never, ever think to come back and start your shit again.
If even now, after all that, you krauts cannot accept that you needed to have all of your meanness beat out of you, then we didn’t do enough.
So even when it achieved nothing it was a-ok because the military in a totalitarian society did similar things. [/quote]
As Winston Churchill said, they sowed the breeze and they reaped the whirlwind. Your people got a taste of your own medicine and now you want to demonize the people who gave you what you asked for.
The fact of the matter is it did achieve something, it brought the war home to the German and Japanese people and taught them a lesson.
We know the bombing worked, because don’t see either the Germans of Japanese being too eager to fight anyone. Though as I read your comments I get the impression that it is finally starting to wear off.
[quote]
So you behaving as if you were the Nazis was ok. [/quote]
No wee did not behave like the Nazis. All we did was send the hate back.
[quote]
I get it. [/quote]
No you don’t get it. If you did get it you would understand and accept that your people needed to be beat down in such a way that they never wanted to go down that path again.
Which is precisely the reason why President Rooseveldt demanded unconditional surrender. Because the German and Japanese will to fight had to be irreperably broken so they would never start another war.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
While I do think that to drop the bomb was a quick way to end the war and therefore the general suffering, the carpet bombings in Europe and Japan were taken from the British colonial playbook where they would simply destroy a village from the air to let it be a warning to others.
This policy specifically targeted civilians in order to break their spirit, shock and awe if you will.
Or in other words terrorism and yes, a war crime.
Attacking places like Tokyo with millions of people and wood and paper houses with fire bombs did little to soften their resolve, it did create a flaming inferno though that let hundred of thousands of people die an unimaginably painful death.
To be fair though it was Churchill who introduced that little gem into WWII.
Rank nonsense, once again.
Perhaps Austrian schools skip the Battle of Britain.
Coventry, VI, VII…
Yadayadayada, completely missing the point as usual -
because we already know that the Nazis and the Japanese military committed war crimes.
That still does not, and did not, make the deliberate carpet bombing of civilian targets excusable.
It is not a matter of making excuses. Those bombings were justified because of the way the German and Japanese people behaved. They were undeniably the meanest, cruelest, people on the planet.
To win that war we had to do a lot more than just defeat your army. We had to beat the mean out of you. We had to beat the mean out of you so much that you fuckers would never, ever think to come back and start your shit again.
If even now, after all that, you krauts cannot accept that you needed to have all of your meanness beat out of you, then we didn’t do enough.
So even when it achieved nothing it was a-ok because the military in a totalitarian society did similar things.
As Winston Churchill said, they sowed the breeze and they reaped the whirlwind. Your people got a taste of your own medicine and now you want to demonize the people who gave you what you asked for.
The fact of the matter is it did achieve something, it brought the war home to the German and Japanese people and taught them a lesson.
We know the bombing worked, because don’t see either the Germans of Japanese being too eager to fight anyone. Though as I read your comments I get the impression that it is finally starting to wear off.
So you behaving as if you were the Nazis was ok.
No wee did not behave like the Nazis. All we did was send the hate back.
I get it.
No you don’t get it. If you did get it you would understand and accept that your people needed to be beat down in such a way that they never wanted to go down that path again.
Which is precisely the reason why President Rooseveldt demanded unconditional surrender. Because the German and Japanese will to fight had to be irreperably broken so they would never start another war.
[/quote]
I guess I rest my case.
[quote]orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
…
To be fair though it was Churchill who introduced that little gem into WWII.
Rank nonsense, once again.
Perhaps Austrian schools skip the Battle of Britain.
Coventry, VI, VII…
Yadayadayada, completely missing the point as usual -
because we already know that the Nazis and the Japanese military committed war crimes.
That still does not, and did not, make the deliberate carpet bombing of civilian targets excusable.
There is no fool quite like a self-righteous fool.
Well, if you choose to fabricate history, you could at least fabricate a source for your assertion, quoted above.
Otherwise, we will just list this as one more example of self-serving and creative approach you take with facts, like The New Histories of Munich, Lincoln, the Navahos…
… the aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive…should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilized life throughout Germany.[18] [19]
It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories....
Sir Arthur “Bomber” Harris
Care for some quotes from a young Congressman about the God-given right to secede?
Or from the Wilson doctrine that also included the Germans that were part of other nations?
Just because you worship a bunch of butchers neither makes me a fool nor illiterate - your determined effort to ignore even quotes out of the horses mouth when they contradict your preconceived notions make you willfully ignorant though.
[/quote]
And thus, your own citation proves you wrong again, since Bomber Harris’ acts follow by years Guernica (Goering’s little demonstration project), Coventry, the Battle of Britain…
Thanks for getting the facts straight, even when you cannot recognize them.
(Next project: understanding that Dresden, Essen, Frankfurt were also centers of war industry and transport. You first.)
Oh, and I just caught the citation of Frau von Mises. Now I know where orion gets his best stuff.
Can anyone in the sentient universe confirm the fire-bombing of Geneva? It has escaped my attention until this very moment.
From Japans Yasukuni Shrine dedicated to soldiers who died for japan, visited by their prime ministers as recently as 2005 and other politicians today.
Yeah even now these people embrace reality
[quote]pushharder wrote:
orion wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Answer the question, Salzburg Kid.
I did , and no matter how often I answer it you will still not like the answer.
No, you did not. You said what you wouldn’t do. To answer, “Nothing” as to what you would do is not an answer for a CiC in a world war. CiCs are not allowed to do nothing when it comes to prosecuting a war.
Are you so intellectually inept that you are going to give up on this with you bending over and your pants down around your ankles?[/quote]
Precisely.
On August 6 1945 my father was on the docks in San Francisco, awaiting orders to transport for the invasion of Japan.
Had he died, he would have left a widow, my older brother would have been orphan (as he was) and I would not be. Some dear readers may not see that last point as a terrible loss.
But it was up to Truman to save my father’s life and the lives of 200 to 500 thousand other men. They were American men, and that was Truman’s obligation.
He was not going to gamble on a harbor "demonstration,’ (the bomb was given only a fair chance of detonation from a plane). Tokyo was too far away.
There was no orion’s “fleet” (how many fabrications can he pull in one thread?) wherefrom the witnesses would send word of the terrible weapon to Tojo. Perhaps Lifty would have had Truman Fedex a whoopee cushion to Hirohito, and thus 500,000 Americans and millions of Japanese who would have died in the invasion, would have been spared.
But I don’t think so.
Instead: God Bless Harry Truman!
[quote]orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
They could have dropped it over a military target.
Wow. You need to learn more about wartime Hiroshima.
And some of you need to learn more about todays Germany:
Combine the drumline from this with Kraftwerk and you could get something more up to date too.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
I guess I rest my case.
[/quote]
So you concede the point unconditionally. That is good.
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
orion wrote:
…
And thus, your own citation proves you wrong again, since Bomber Harris’ acts follow by years Guernica (Goering’s little demonstration project), Coventry, the Battle of Britain…
Thanks for getting the facts straight, even when you cannot recognize them.
(Next project: understanding that Dresden, Essen, Frankfurt were also centers of war industry and transport. You first.)
Oh, and I just caught the citation of Frau von Mises. Now I know where orion gets his best stuff.
Can anyone in the sentient universe confirm the fire-bombing of Geneva? It has escaped my attention until this very moment.
[/quote]
The only thing I know of is a couple of lost bombers accidentally dropped bombs on Zurich.
While we are on about the Swiss, here is another little known fact. Swiss gold Francs from that era contain trace amounts of mercury. The only reason why the gold would contain mercury is if it had been used in dental work like gold teeth. I’ll give you one guess as to where they were getting gold teeth on an industrial scale.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
tassie wrote:
From Japans Yasukuni Shrine dedicated to soldiers who died for japan, visited by their prime ministers as recently as 2005 and other politicians today.
Yeah even now these people embrace reality
Indeed, not just “soldiers who died for japan,” but the Class-A war criminals, too.[/quote]
I agree 100%. The far right-wing in Japan has far too much power.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
pushharder wrote:
orion wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Answer the question, Salzburg Kid.
I did , and no matter how often I answer it you will still not like the answer.
No, you did not. You said what you wouldn’t do. To answer, “Nothing” as to what you would do is not an answer for a CiC in a world war. CiCs are not allowed to do nothing when it comes to prosecuting a war.
Are you so intellectually inept that you are going to give up on this with you bending over and your pants down around your ankles?
Precisely.
On August 6 1945 my father was on the docks in San Francisco, awaiting orders to transport for the invasion of Japan.
Had he died, he would have left a widow, my older brother would have been orphan (as he was) and I would not be. Some dear readers may not see that last point as a terrible loss.
But it was up to Truman to save my father’s life and the lives of 200 to 500 thousand other men. They were American men, and that was Truman’s obligation.
He was not going to gamble on a harbor "demonstration,’ (the bomb was given only a fair chance of detonation from a plane). Tokyo was too far away.
There was no orion’s “fleet” (how many fabrications can he pull in one thread?) wherefrom the witnesses would send word of the terrible weapon to Tojo. Perhaps Lifty would have had Truman Fedex a whoopee cushion to Hirohito, and thus 500,000 Americans and millions of Japanese who would have died in the invasion, would have been spared.
But I don’t think so.
Instead: God Bless Harry Truman!
Doc, you always make me smile.
And appreciate your posts immensely.[/quote]
Yeah the Doc got it completely right here.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
pushharder wrote:
tassie wrote:
From Japans Yasukuni Shrine dedicated to soldiers who died for japan, visited by their prime ministers as recently as 2005 and other politicians today.
Yeah even now these people embrace reality
Yeah, you can put up signs like this and try and fool your people when you never teach about the Rape of Nanking.
Oh, most Japanese know about Nanking, in my experience, Push. (The last history textbook I saw had like one innocuous line in it on the subject.)
But several people have told me that it’s “just an exaggerated claim” on the part of the Chinese that “never really happened that way.”
One man told me that his brother-in-law was actually there, and had explained to him that the Japanese military “felt threatened and was just protecting itself.” [/quote]
QFT. This was my experience exactly.
I’m not sure how many knew about Unit 731 though.