What if any, are the joint support benefits of glucosamine/chondroitin with MSM? Some days, especially the mornings after a hard cardio session or basketball game the night before, I’ll feel a throbbing in my knees that takes several hours to go away. Don’t really want to keep taking Naproxin, so any pros or cons regarding glucosamine/chondroitin with MSM would be appreciated. Some people swear by it, others say it’s a complete waste of time. What’s the T-Nation consensus?
MicroSlash
also wondering the same for a friend with major knee joint problems.
hoping for some good replies
Microslash & UB07, I’m very much a fan of glucosamine (HCl) and MSM for their joint protective benefits. The jury’s still out on chondroitin.
You need about 1.5g per day of glucosamine and the dose on MSM is variable, but I 4-6g per day in divided doses ought to do the job nicely.
I purchase my glucosamine and MSM in bulk. I pay about $10 a pound for MSM and about $15 a pound for glucosamine HCl. www.msm-msm.com
The other supp that will round out your arsenal would be a good proteolytic enzyme like Wobenzym at aggressive doses when you need it and normal doses at all other times. Along with its antiinflammatory and pain relieving benefits, it will help with protein synthesis and repair by replacing damaged protein structures. It’s a very well designed supp, with a long history safety and efficacy in Europe (20 years).
Wobenzyme needs to be taken on an empty stomach. Since it’s a protein enzyme, if eaten with food it will help digest the protein you just ate. If taken on an empty stomach, it has systemic benefits.
Good luck to both of you, and I hope you’re feeling better in short order. Let me know how it goes!
TT, so what about taking Wobenzyme on an empty stomach with other supps that are supposed to be taken on an empty stomach. Am I right in guessing that Wobenzyme might interfere with them?
Where do you buy your Wobenzyme?
Thanks for the quick reply, TT.
MicroSlash
You’re most welcome, MicroSlash! (grin)
michaelv, it’s worth every penny, but Wobenzym is not a cheap supp. There’s a lot that goes into the manufacturing process. So I would recommend you do a search on the Internet for the best price. While you’re at it, check out www.iherb.com.
Wobenzym can be taken with other supps that need to be taken on an empty stomach, including amino acids. You just don’t want to eat it with a meal that includes meat/protein. An empty stomach, by the way is 2 hours after a meal (3 hours after a large meal) and/or 30 to 45 minutes before a meal.
Oh, yeah, one last thing. My little trick is to add glucosamine and MSM to every protein shake I make. At this point it’s a habit, something I do without thinking. It’s so darn cheap, buying it in bulk, and I never taste it. So my protein shakes are protective of both LBM and joints! (grin)
This is highly ancedotal, but when I was doing the V-Diet, I was taking about 4-6 times the regular amount of salmon oil and flax oil. I have a history of chronic elbow pain due to work strain several years ago. Glucosamine and MSM helped a little, but I always had to be careful with my workouts. On the V-Diet, my elbow pain disappeared, and I was doing a fairly heavy lifting program.
X-man
Excellent post by Terry, as always. Where else can you get that sort of quality information and a beautiful smile to go along with it?!
My own experience, I take, in divided doses the following supplements for joint health: 1,500 mg of Glucosamine; 3000 mg of MSM; 5-6 grams of Fish oil and three to six Wobenzyme tablets (on an empty stomach). I have also taken Boswellia extract. This substance comes from the Boswellia Serratta tree. It is a good anti-inflammatory supplement.
As to my preference for the above. I would not be without my Glucosamine supplements. I think they are invaluble to my joint health. I have noticed a marked difference when I am not using this supplement on a regular basis. In fact, I have goine off of the supplement for extended periods just to see what would occur. Without exception one particular nasty joint injury from years gone by rears its ugly head.
Good Luck with your injuries you may want to give all or some of the above a try. If you are looking to purchase the finest pharmaceutical grade supplements (they do not carry Wobenzyme) I recommend Life Extension: lifeextension.com.
Good luck with your injuries!
Zeb
I dont think you should be taking Naproxen still. I have heard it has been linked to heart attacks and severe stomach pains. Naproxen is in medications such as Celebrex and Aleve. The company that maufactures Celebrex is in a little bit of heat.
VIOXX/BEXTRA/CELEBREX HEART AND STROKE RISK
On September 30th, 2004, Merck Pharmaceuticals announced a withdrawal of its best-selling drug, Vioxx, because of its potential role in causing heart attacks and strokes. Bextra and Celebrex are similar drugs with similar risk profiles.
Do not take Celebrex without first talking to your doctor if you have had an allergic reaction to a sulfa-based medicine such as:
sulfamethoxazole (Bactrim, Septra, Gantanol, and others), sulfisoxazole (Gantrisin), and others; or
experienced asthma, hives, or an allergic reaction after taking aspirin or another NSAID such as ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil, Nuprin, and others), NAPROXEN(Aleve, Naprosyn, Anaprox), ketoprofen (Orudis KT, Orudis, Oruvail), diclofenac (Voltaren, Cataflam), diflunisal (Dolobid), etodolac (Lodine, Lodine XL), fenoprofen (Nalfon), flurbiprofen (Ansaid), indomethacin (Indocin), ketorolac (Toradol), meloxicam (Mobic), nabumetone (Relafen), oxaprozin (Daypro), piroxicam (Feldene), sulindac (Clinoril), or tolmetin (Tolectin).
I know I am mostly talking about Celebrex and i know u had a question about joint pain, but I thought this info might help a little too. You can type it in on any search engine and find some info.
I am a big believer in proteolytic enzyme therapy, and I try to keep abreast of the innovations in formulas and products on the market. I would strongly recommend Zymitol currently. I use it along with their other product Serralone. Wobenzym N is a decent product, but its formula hasn’t seen any improvements in decades, and much stronger proteolytic and fibrinalytic enzymes have been discovered.