Johnny Football

Off Topic
41

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
as far as the paying players thing, I would argue that since many programs don’t allow their football players to get jobs in the summer, they should be on the hook for living expenses (a stipend) during the summer. For those 3-4 months out of every year, the scholarship is worth jack shit.

I would bet 100% of my bank account that Johnny Football does not miss the season. I would bet 80% of my bank account that he does not miss a single SEC or bowl game. I would bet 50% of my bank account that he does not miss a game.[/quote]

I dunno, I would still say that caf and dorm are really all the pay they need. [/quote]

Seriously? With no way to earn income? Come the fuck on, we’re not talking about 20 grand. We’re talking about a couple hundred bucks a month per player. Average dorm/food plan is worth less than 1000 bucks/ month. You split a shitty little room with another dude, and you eat the same awful food every day. How is that fair compensation for the hours they put into training/practice?

You’ve gotta understand, many of these guys come from homes where they’re receiving absolutely no financial support, so whatever the University is giving them is literally all they have. Most aren’t going to be able to get short term loans from the bank to cover living expenses during the summer. So you’re looking at a situation where a player is putting in work training every day, and yet can’t afford to go to a movie, go bowling, eat at chili’s, buy clothes, etc. It’s a damn shame.[/quote]

Are football players the only ones that aren’t allowed to have jobs due to practice? Which that could be the biggest problem. Let them get summer jobs. I am quite sure that the university could work out some type of schedule with local businesses, or even the university itself in a work study program, to where players that wanted them could have jobs. And what you are practicing maybe 6 hours a day, maybe doing some playbook studying in there as well, that’s no worse than a pre-med schedule and plenty of them get summer jobs.[/quote]

Yes to your first question, and it’s based on when their season starts (August). It’s not a question of time at most schools, it’s ‘if you get a job you’re off the team’. I don’t think you get that. The Universities are the entities that are preventing the athletes from working, so they have no intention of working toward getting them jobs. Your comparison to pre-med is flawed, because A) pre-med students are allowed to get jobs, and B) football is not a major. 99% of College football players will NOT become professionals. Pre-med students are investing in what they expect to be a future career, from which they will later reap benefits. Beyond that, pre-med students are generally eligible for stipends anyway. Also, 8 hours of pre-med study per day is vastly different from 8 hours of football per day. How you can ignore that is beyond me. Think about the type of job your average college football player is qualified for. Compare this to your average pre-med student. You’re comparing a dude sitting around reading books all day and then maybe working in a book store or coffee shop or something to a dude that is getting his ass beat on the field all day, and then going to work.

What specifically is the problem with a 200 dollar stipend per month during the summer for athletes who are prohibited from getting jobs?
[/quote]

No premed is studying anywhere near 8hrs a day not even close. If they are they will never get into med school. Also football players are not practicing 8hrs a day. I would guess the amount of pre mess moving on to med school is damn close to amount d1 athletes moving on to pro level as well[/quote]

agreed on both. I was giving bpick the benefit of the doubt on the studying, because my argument still worked assuming those terms.[/quote]

Got ya. I don’t really input on the actual discussion because I don’t really care lol. I would wager most pre mess that’s actually make it study for a night or two before the tests. In my class I think I was one of the only ones who studied (albeit 30min per class) everyday. It’s fun to watch them figure out how to change that.

42

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]comus3 wrote:
How about the NFL and NBA create some minor leagues for those who don’t want to be free labor for colleges’ alumni fundraising programs?[/quote]

The NBA has the D-league. There are indeed players that have skipped college and still made the NBA. Rare though. The NFL is set up different because players are not nearly physically developed enough for the league at 18.

I don’t believe finding reasons for athletes to skip College altogether is the solution here… but it would be interesting if there were more legit alternatives straight out of high school. That would be an incentive for the NCAA to change.[/quote]

Good god those guys would get murdered going into the league right out high school.

43

They get something I would have given my left nut for. They get 4 more years.

44

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]comus3 wrote:
How about the NFL and NBA create some minor leagues for those who don’t want to be free labor for colleges’ alumni fundraising programs?[/quote]

The NBA has the D-league. There are indeed players that have skipped college and still made the NBA. Rare though. The NFL is set up different because players are not nearly physically developed enough for the league at 18.

I don’t believe finding reasons for athletes to skip College altogether is the solution here… but it would be interesting if there were more legit alternatives straight out of high school. That would be an incentive for the NCAA to change.[/quote]

The idea of an NFL farm league would be intriguing. Maybe do it like a 24 and under league. That way some of these kids that cant pass or barely pass high school but are absolute physical beasts might could get there another way.

And when I through up that 6hrs a day number I was including studying and classes because we were talking about players during the summer. And to the job regulations, loosen all that up. However if it is found that boosters are paying no show jobs, make the punishment more severe. I guess I am saying make it much easier for the players to make their own money by lifting all these restrictions that make it easier on the NCAA, but if kids and programs are found to be in violation of the rules, the punishment should be more severe.

And to your stipend issue, I don’t think that anything given by the university to football players should be denied to any other sport. So do you really think that Toledo can afford to pay their 3rd string swimmers a stipend because if not then the football players shouldn’t get it either. In the eyes of the university, all athletes representing their university should be exactly the same.

45

paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

46

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]
Yea made the same point on first page.

47

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]
Yea made the same point on first page.[/quote]

I did? I don’t see my post. It’s funny because I though I made a comment, but couldn’t find it, so figured id add to the forum. If you see it can you copy it? thats really weird.

48

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]
Yea made the same point on first page.[/quote]

I did? I don’t see my post. It’s funny because I though I made a comment, but couldn’t find it, so figured id add to the forum. If you see it can you copy it? thats really weird.[/quote]
I made the same point on the first page.

49

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]
Yea made the same point on first page.[/quote]

I did? I don’t see my post. It’s funny because I though I made a comment, but couldn’t find it, so figured id add to the forum. If you see it can you copy it? thats really weird.[/quote]
I made the same point on the first page. [/quote]

Oh, haha I read that wrong.

Well of course you did, you seem like smart guy.
It’s a very valid point though.

50

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]
Yea made the same point on first page.[/quote]

I did? I don’t see my post. It’s funny because I though I made a comment, but couldn’t find it, so figured id add to the forum. If you see it can you copy it? thats really weird.[/quote]
I made the same point on the first page. [/quote]

Oh, haha I read that wrong.

Well of course you did, you seem like smart guy.
It’s a very valid point though.
[/quote]
lol

51

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.

52

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.[/quote]
I dont know Flip, the NCAA is already convoluted enough.

Instead just carry the kids through the summer, let them stay in the dorms, food etc. Make them take summer classes etc.

53

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]comus3 wrote:
How about the NFL and NBA create some minor leagues for those who don’t want to be free labor for colleges’ alumni fundraising programs?[/quote]

The NBA has the D-league. There are indeed players that have skipped college and still made the NBA. Rare though. The NFL is set up different because players are not nearly physically developed enough for the league at 18.

I don’t believe finding reasons for athletes to skip College altogether is the solution here… but it would be interesting if there were more legit alternatives straight out of high school. That would be an incentive for the NCAA to change.[/quote]

The idea of an NFL farm league would be intriguing. Maybe do it like a 24 and under league. That way some of these kids that cant pass or barely pass high school but are absolute physical beasts might could get there another way.

And when I through up that 6hrs a day number I was including studying and classes because we were talking about players during the summer. And to the job regulations, loosen all that up. However if it is found that boosters are paying no show jobs, make the punishment more severe. I guess I am saying make it much easier for the players to make their own money by lifting all these restrictions that make it easier on the NCAA, but if kids and programs are found to be in violation of the rules, the punishment should be more severe.

And to your stipend issue, I don’t think that anything given by the university to football players should be denied to any other sport. So do you really think that Toledo can afford to pay their 3rd string swimmers a stipend because if not then the football players shouldn’t get it either. In the eyes of the university, all athletes representing their university should be exactly the same. [/quote]

Every school with a football program generates revenue that funds the rest of its athletic programs. No other sport makes money, besides basketball. Yes, I would extend those stipends to any athletes with summer requirements, for whatever duration they’re required to be at the school over the summer. And yes, I believe that every single University in America with a football program can afford to do this.

54

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.[/quote]

But why should football get special treatment that softball players do not? They are all representing their universities and should be treated as such. Summer or not should make no difference. Now if a booster wanted to set up a stipend fund and maybe let the ncaa put a cap on the amount that could be paid to a player out of that fund, then that might could be ok.

55

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.[/quote]
I dont know Flip, the NCAA is already convoluted enough.

Instead just carry the kids through the summer, let them stay in the dorms, food etc. Make them take summer classes etc. [/quote]

So adding in an NCAA rule that mandates the following: “All students required to participate in NCAA athletic programs during the summer shall receive a 600 dollar stipend, in addition to room and board” is too convoluted?

You can’t make them take summer classes, that’s ridiculous. What purpose would that serve? Why would you give student athletes a more rigorous course load than other students?

56

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.[/quote]

But why should football get special treatment that softball players do not? They are all representing their universities and should be treated as such. Summer or not should make no difference. Now if a booster wanted to set up a stipend fund and maybe let the ncaa put a cap on the amount that could be paid to a player out of that fund, then that might could be ok.[/quote]

DUDE. I said specifically that it would extend to other sports. Did you miss that? If softball players have to be on campus during the summer, then they get the stipend too. It’s not special treatment, it’s living expenses. You really think 600 dollars over the course of 3 months is ‘special treatment’?

57

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.[/quote]
I dont know Flip, the NCAA is already convoluted enough.

Instead just carry the kids through the summer, let them stay in the dorms, food etc. Make them take summer classes etc. [/quote]

So adding in an NCAA rule that mandates the following: “All students required to participate in NCAA athletic programs during the summer shall receive a 600 dollar stipend, in addition to room and board” is too convoluted?

You can’t make them take summer classes, that’s ridiculous. What purpose would that serve? Why would you give student athletes a more rigorous course load than other students?[/quote]

  1. by convoluted, more rules, more regulation and more policing
  2. Why would taking summer classes be ridiculous. I went to college for 14 years and took summer classes? They could actually lighten the load of the other two semesters during their sport. (Plus it was just a thought, playing devils advocate)
58

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.[/quote]
I dont know Flip, the NCAA is already convoluted enough.

Instead just carry the kids through the summer, let them stay in the dorms, food etc. Make them take summer classes etc. [/quote]

So adding in an NCAA rule that mandates the following: “All students required to participate in NCAA athletic programs during the summer shall receive a 600 dollar stipend, in addition to room and board” is too convoluted?

You can’t make them take summer classes, that’s ridiculous. What purpose would that serve? Why would you give student athletes a more rigorous course load than other students?[/quote]

  1. by convoluted, more rules, more regulation and more policing

  2. Why would taking summer classes be ridiculous. I went to college for 14 years and took summer classes? They could actually lighten the load of the other two semesters during their sport. (Plus it was just a thought, playing devils advocate) [/quote]

  3. Implementing a player benefit is not policing in my opinion.

  4. I took summer classes too. But I wasn’t forced to. Allow them to take classes? Yes. Make them? No.

59

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Phoenix44e wrote:
paying players huh?

So you mean that the completely free education the receive, on top of the immense recognition for being a d1 college athlete(starter or not), on top of the unlimited connections the will make isn’t enough for them?

Also so they pay these guys at the d1 level, why wouldn’t they pay at the d2 level, or d3 level. where does it stop?

[/quote]

My suggestion amounted to $600 a year. And yes, I would apply it to all levels. I’m speaking specifically about the summer. Why is an amount that small such a hard pill to swallow? You give that to 100 athletes (football and any other sports that have huge summer requirements), and you’re talking about 60k. That’s it. That’s where it stops.[/quote]
I dont know Flip, the NCAA is already convoluted enough.

Instead just carry the kids through the summer, let them stay in the dorms, food etc. Make them take summer classes etc. [/quote]

So adding in an NCAA rule that mandates the following: “All students required to participate in NCAA athletic programs during the summer shall receive a 600 dollar stipend, in addition to room and board” is too convoluted?

You can’t make them take summer classes, that’s ridiculous. What purpose would that serve? Why would you give student athletes a more rigorous course load than other students?[/quote]

  1. by convoluted, more rules, more regulation and more policing

  2. Why would taking summer classes be ridiculous. I went to college for 14 years and took summer classes? They could actually lighten the load of the other two semesters during their sport. (Plus it was just a thought, playing devils advocate) [/quote]

  3. Implementing a player benefit is not policing in my opinion.

  4. I took summer classes too. But I wasn’t forced to. Allow them to take classes? Yes. Make them? No.[/quote]

  5. Someone will have to monitor all those accounts nationwide to make sure nothing “excessive” is going on.

  6. Allow them to take classes during the summer and less during the sports semester.

I just never understood why you needed to vacate the dorm during summer?

60

I also want to throw this out there: I totally understand taking the position that these players don’t NEED such a stipend. What I don’t understand is why people are AGAINST the idea. I still haven’t seen anyone come up with a reason why a 600$ stipend for summer athletes would be detrimental to anyone involved.