[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
The NCAA can eat a fat dick, I hate the NCAA. [/quote]
x2[/quote]
X3. Hypocritical pricks.
The ‘death penalty’ a school for paying some players, but if a coach ass-rapes kids in the shower, you just get a fine and have to miss a couple of bowl games.
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
The NCAA can eat a fat dick, I hate the NCAA. [/quote]
So how do you really feel.[/quote]
I feel the zen…
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]Claudan wrote:
But to a bigger point, below-professional-level-sports in america is comparable to a tyranny.
I really enjoy the whole college-farm system, but at the same time, it benefits pretty much everyone BUT the athlete. It’s a damn shame, because, if a injury occurs in year 3 or 4, you’ve given them your entire college career, which resulted in a career-ending-injury, so now you’re left with DICK, while the coach moves on to your younger brother.
[/quote]
No
Sorry a college player has a chance to get a degree, if he is to stupid than to take basket weaving and underwater trick fucking and come out with a philosophy degree than that is his own fault.
I came out with 80k worth of student loan debt.
They get paid to play, its just not in cash. [/quote]
Hey! What’s wrong with philosophy?
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
as far as the paying players thing, I would argue that since many programs don’t allow their football players to get jobs in the summer, they should be on the hook for living expenses (a stipend) during the summer. For those 3-4 months out of every year, the scholarship is worth jack shit.
I would bet 100% of my bank account that Johnny Football does not miss the season. I would bet 80% of my bank account that he does not miss a single SEC or bowl game. I would bet 50% of my bank account that he does not miss a game.[/quote]
I dunno, I would still say that caf and dorm are really all the pay they need. [/quote]
Seriously? With no way to earn income? Come the fuck on, we’re not talking about 20 grand. We’re talking about a couple hundred bucks a month per player. Average dorm/food plan is worth less than 1000 bucks/ month. You split a shitty little room with another dude, and you eat the same awful food every day. How is that fair compensation for the hours they put into training/practice?
You’ve gotta understand, many of these guys come from homes where they’re receiving absolutely no financial support, so whatever the University is giving them is literally all they have. Most aren’t going to be able to get short term loans from the bank to cover living expenses during the summer. So you’re looking at a situation where a player is putting in work training every day, and yet can’t afford to go to a movie, go bowling, eat at chili’s, buy clothes, etc. It’s a damn shame.[/quote]
Are football players the only ones that aren’t allowed to have jobs due to practice? Which that could be the biggest problem. Let them get summer jobs. I am quite sure that the university could work out some type of schedule with local businesses, or even the university itself in a work study program, to where players that wanted them could have jobs. And what you are practicing maybe 6 hours a day, maybe doing some playbook studying in there as well, that’s no worse than a pre-med schedule and plenty of them get summer jobs.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
as far as the paying players thing, I would argue that since many programs don’t allow their football players to get jobs in the summer, they should be on the hook for living expenses (a stipend) during the summer. For those 3-4 months out of every year, the scholarship is worth jack shit.
I would bet 100% of my bank account that Johnny Football does not miss the season. I would bet 80% of my bank account that he does not miss a single SEC or bowl game. I would bet 50% of my bank account that he does not miss a game.[/quote]
I dunno, I would still say that caf and dorm are really all the pay they need. [/quote]
Seriously? With no way to earn income? Come the fuck on, we’re not talking about 20 grand. We’re talking about a couple hundred bucks a month per player. Average dorm/food plan is worth less than 1000 bucks/ month. You split a shitty little room with another dude, and you eat the same awful food every day. How is that fair compensation for the hours they put into training/practice?
You’ve gotta understand, many of these guys come from homes where they’re receiving absolutely no financial support, so whatever the University is giving them is literally all they have. Most aren’t going to be able to get short term loans from the bank to cover living expenses during the summer. So you’re looking at a situation where a player is putting in work training every day, and yet can’t afford to go to a movie, go bowling, eat at chili’s, buy clothes, etc. It’s a damn shame.[/quote]
Are football players the only ones that aren’t allowed to have jobs due to practice? Which that could be the biggest problem. Let them get summer jobs. I am quite sure that the university could work out some type of schedule with local businesses, or even the university itself in a work study program, to where players that wanted them could have jobs. And what you are practicing maybe 6 hours a day, maybe doing some playbook studying in there as well, that’s no worse than a pre-med schedule and plenty of them get summer jobs.[/quote]
Yes to your first question, and it’s based on when their season starts (August). It’s not a question of time at most schools, it’s ‘if you get a job you’re off the team’. I don’t think you get that. The Universities are the entities that are preventing the athletes from working, so they have no intention of working toward getting them jobs. Your comparison to pre-med is flawed, because A) pre-med students are allowed to get jobs, and B) football is not a major. 99% of College football players will NOT become professionals. Pre-med students are investing in what they expect to be a future career, from which they will later reap benefits. Beyond that, pre-med students are generally eligible for stipends anyway. Also, 8 hours of pre-med study per day is vastly different from 8 hours of football per day. How you can ignore that is beyond me. Think about the type of job your average college football player is qualified for. Compare this to your average pre-med student. You’re comparing a dude sitting around reading books all day and then maybe working in a book store or coffee shop or something to a dude that is getting his ass beat on the field all day, and then going to work.
What specifically is the problem with a 200 dollar stipend per month during the summer for athletes who are prohibited from getting jobs?
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
as far as the paying players thing, I would argue that since many programs don’t allow their football players to get jobs in the summer, they should be on the hook for living expenses (a stipend) during the summer. For those 3-4 months out of every year, the scholarship is worth jack shit.
I would bet 100% of my bank account that Johnny Football does not miss the season. I would bet 80% of my bank account that he does not miss a single SEC or bowl game. I would bet 50% of my bank account that he does not miss a game.[/quote]
I dunno, I would still say that caf and dorm are really all the pay they need. [/quote]
Seriously? With no way to earn income? Come the fuck on, we’re not talking about 20 grand. We’re talking about a couple hundred bucks a month per player. Average dorm/food plan is worth less than 1000 bucks/ month. You split a shitty little room with another dude, and you eat the same awful food every day. How is that fair compensation for the hours they put into training/practice?
You’ve gotta understand, many of these guys come from homes where they’re receiving absolutely no financial support, so whatever the University is giving them is literally all they have. Most aren’t going to be able to get short term loans from the bank to cover living expenses during the summer. So you’re looking at a situation where a player is putting in work training every day, and yet can’t afford to go to a movie, go bowling, eat at chili’s, buy clothes, etc. It’s a damn shame.[/quote]
Are football players the only ones that aren’t allowed to have jobs due to practice? Which that could be the biggest problem. Let them get summer jobs. I am quite sure that the university could work out some type of schedule with local businesses, or even the university itself in a work study program, to where players that wanted them could have jobs. And what you are practicing maybe 6 hours a day, maybe doing some playbook studying in there as well, that’s no worse than a pre-med schedule and plenty of them get summer jobs.[/quote]
Yes to your first question, and it’s based on when their season starts (August). It’s not a question of time at most schools, it’s ‘if you get a job you’re off the team’. I don’t think you get that. The Universities are the entities that are preventing the athletes from working, so they have no intention of working toward getting them jobs. Your comparison to pre-med is flawed, because A) pre-med students are allowed to get jobs, and B) football is not a major. 99% of College football players will NOT become professionals. Pre-med students are investing in what they expect to be a future career, from which they will later reap benefits. Beyond that, pre-med students are generally eligible for stipends anyway. Also, 8 hours of pre-med study per day is vastly different from 8 hours of football per day. How you can ignore that is beyond me. Think about the type of job your average college football player is qualified for. Compare this to your average pre-med student. You’re comparing a dude sitting around reading books all day and then maybe working in a book store or coffee shop or something to a dude that is getting his ass beat on the field all day, and then going to work.
What specifically is the problem with a 200 dollar stipend per month during the summer for athletes who are prohibited from getting jobs?
[/quote]
What’s fair for one person representing their school on the athletic field is fair for all. Universities should not prevent players from obtaining summer jobs, the ncaa should not prevent kids from marketing themselves and profiting from it however they can either. With that said, if you would rather have money than play, then quit and get a job.
I do think that some of the rules on boosters treating kids to meals and what not should be loosened up also. As long as it is not a University backed institution then the NCAA should stay out of it. That could solve your stipend issues, remove any title IX issues, and I don’t think the dreaded lack of athletic parity would really be effected.
What is the reasoning behind the “no job” rule?
Anyone who thinks that these kids AREN’T getting paid is either naive or dumb as a truck. I’ll put it to you like this: if you are a contributing member of a name program, you’re getting paid. And, if you were a bigtime high school recruit that for whatever reason didn’t pan out, you still got yours. Boosters, alumni, “friends of the program”, etc… These kids are doing just fine.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
What is the reasoning behind the “no job” rule?[/quote]
Boosters paying $30,000 for a no-show job.
[quote]doogie wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
What is the reasoning behind the “no job” rule?[/quote]
Boosters paying $30,000 for a no-show job.[/quote]
exactly.
NCAA rules actually permit work to an extent, but the regulations are so restricting that it effectively eliminates working for these players. They regulate: how much you can make at the job, what type of job it is, and where the job is.
I’m still waiting for you to answer the question: why are you against a minimal stipend? What exactly is the downside?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Anyone who thinks that these kids AREN’T getting paid is either naive or dumb as a truck. I’ll put it to you like this: if you are a contributing member of a name program, you’re getting paid. And, if you were a bigtime high school recruit that for whatever reason didn’t pan out, you still got yours. Boosters, alumni, “friends of the program”, etc… These kids are doing just fine. [/quote]
No, YOU’RE naive. You’re talking about a limited number of players. You even specified ‘CONTRIBUTING MEMBER of a NAME PROGRAM’. What about the backup linemen at Ball State (just a random example) who have to go through all the same practices that the ‘paid’ players go through? You’re literally ignoring 80+% of college football players. Nobody’s arguing that the top players aren’t getting their pockets lined. We’re talking about the grunts. Everybody else who’s involved in the 50 man rosters, who don’t see a dime of booster money. And by the way, does it not bother you that getting these players money has to be under the table? Why not make legitimate means for players to have a few dollars in their pockets?
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Anyone who thinks that these kids AREN’T getting paid is either naive or dumb as a truck. I’ll put it to you like this: if you are a contributing member of a name program, you’re getting paid. And, if you were a bigtime high school recruit that for whatever reason didn’t pan out, you still got yours. Boosters, alumni, “friends of the program”, etc… These kids are doing just fine. [/quote]
No, YOU’RE naive. You’re talking about a limited number of players. You even specified ‘CONTRIBUTING MEMBER of a NAME PROGRAM’. What about the backup linemen at Ball State (just a random example) who have to go through all the same practices that the ‘paid’ players go through? You’re literally ignoring 80+% of college football players. Nobody’s arguing that the top players aren’t getting their pockets lined. We’re talking about the grunts. Everybody else who’s involved in the 50 man rosters, who don’t see a dime of booster money. And by the way, does it not bother you that getting these players money has to be under the table? Why not make legitimate means for players to have a few dollars in their pockets?[/quote]
By contributing I meant “name”. Aren’t you there same guy who thinks Ray Lewis is clean and Ct. Rock is real? How many “bigtime” athletes have/do you know? I’ve known several, and they ALL were getting something. It’s not just cash, we’re talking cars, jewelry, clothes, whatever. The only thing that bothers me is how much money and attention go to a fucking game when those resources could be used for so much more. But, thems the breaks.
[quote]Claudan wrote:
Just to be clear,
You’re comparing ‘AJ Green’ to a freshman Heisman winner… I’m guessing Johnny is a bigger deal than a receiver. [/quote]
Completely irrelevant granted, but I would not be surprised if ‘AJ Green’ ends up with the longer, more successful football career.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Anyone who thinks that these kids AREN’T getting paid is either naive or dumb as a truck. I’ll put it to you like this: if you are a contributing member of a name program, you’re getting paid. And, if you were a bigtime high school recruit that for whatever reason didn’t pan out, you still got yours. Boosters, alumni, “friends of the program”, etc… These kids are doing just fine. [/quote]
No, YOU’RE naive. You’re talking about a limited number of players. You even specified ‘CONTRIBUTING MEMBER of a NAME PROGRAM’. What about the backup linemen at Ball State (just a random example) who have to go through all the same practices that the ‘paid’ players go through? You’re literally ignoring 80+% of college football players. Nobody’s arguing that the top players aren’t getting their pockets lined. We’re talking about the grunts. Everybody else who’s involved in the 50 man rosters, who don’t see a dime of booster money. And by the way, does it not bother you that getting these players money has to be under the table? Why not make legitimate means for players to have a few dollars in their pockets?[/quote]
By contributing I meant “name”. Aren’t you there same guy who thinks Ray Lewis is clean and Ct. Rock is real? How many “bigtime” athletes have/do you know? I’ve known several, and they ALL were getting something. It’s not just cash, we’re talking cars, jewelry, clothes, whatever. The only thing that bothers me is how much money and attention go to a fucking game when those resources could be used for so much more. But, thems the breaks.[/quote]
You must be thinking of someone else on Lewis. I’m confident there are 100’s of NFL players using drugs, he could certainly be one of them. If you’re talking about the murder case, I don’t think he physically committed murder, but I do think he committed a crime and got away with it. Yes, I think Ct Rock is legit. What that has to do with the majority of college football players, I haven’t the slightest idea.
You’re arguing something that is beside the point I’m making. I 100% agree that there are college players getting tons of swag. Hundreds of players (quite possibly in the thousands, I’d have to consider the math more). Those players don’t need help in the summer. The players I’m talking about are the many more thousands of scholarship athletes across the country, especially at non-D1 schools, who aren’t fairly compensated for the work they put in during the summer. Are you going to tell me the offensive linemen at Louisville are sporting Rolex’s? Those are the types of guys I’m talking about.
EDIT: Yes, I know several professional athletes.
Lets just suspend him for the Rice game…so he’s healthy for Alabama #2.
How about the NFL and NBA create some minor leagues for those who don’t want to be free labor for colleges’ alumni fundraising programs?
There is not a chance in the world that the NCAA is going to suspend Manziel, if they do it will be longer than 3 games…Texas A&M vs Bama…too much money to be made of that game to have to biggest name player not to be playing in it.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
as far as the paying players thing, I would argue that since many programs don’t allow their football players to get jobs in the summer, they should be on the hook for living expenses (a stipend) during the summer. For those 3-4 months out of every year, the scholarship is worth jack shit.
I would bet 100% of my bank account that Johnny Football does not miss the season. I would bet 80% of my bank account that he does not miss a single SEC or bowl game. I would bet 50% of my bank account that he does not miss a game.[/quote]
I dunno, I would still say that caf and dorm are really all the pay they need. [/quote]
Seriously? With no way to earn income? Come the fuck on, we’re not talking about 20 grand. We’re talking about a couple hundred bucks a month per player. Average dorm/food plan is worth less than 1000 bucks/ month. You split a shitty little room with another dude, and you eat the same awful food every day. How is that fair compensation for the hours they put into training/practice?
You’ve gotta understand, many of these guys come from homes where they’re receiving absolutely no financial support, so whatever the University is giving them is literally all they have. Most aren’t going to be able to get short term loans from the bank to cover living expenses during the summer. So you’re looking at a situation where a player is putting in work training every day, and yet can’t afford to go to a movie, go bowling, eat at chili’s, buy clothes, etc. It’s a damn shame.[/quote]
Are football players the only ones that aren’t allowed to have jobs due to practice? Which that could be the biggest problem. Let them get summer jobs. I am quite sure that the university could work out some type of schedule with local businesses, or even the university itself in a work study program, to where players that wanted them could have jobs. And what you are practicing maybe 6 hours a day, maybe doing some playbook studying in there as well, that’s no worse than a pre-med schedule and plenty of them get summer jobs.[/quote]
Yes to your first question, and it’s based on when their season starts (August). It’s not a question of time at most schools, it’s ‘if you get a job you’re off the team’. I don’t think you get that. The Universities are the entities that are preventing the athletes from working, so they have no intention of working toward getting them jobs. Your comparison to pre-med is flawed, because A) pre-med students are allowed to get jobs, and B) football is not a major. 99% of College football players will NOT become professionals. Pre-med students are investing in what they expect to be a future career, from which they will later reap benefits. Beyond that, pre-med students are generally eligible for stipends anyway. Also, 8 hours of pre-med study per day is vastly different from 8 hours of football per day. How you can ignore that is beyond me. Think about the type of job your average college football player is qualified for. Compare this to your average pre-med student. You’re comparing a dude sitting around reading books all day and then maybe working in a book store or coffee shop or something to a dude that is getting his ass beat on the field all day, and then going to work.
What specifically is the problem with a 200 dollar stipend per month during the summer for athletes who are prohibited from getting jobs?
[/quote]
No premed is studying anywhere near 8hrs a day not even close. If they are they will never get into med school. Also football players are not practicing 8hrs a day. I would guess the amount of pre mess moving on to med school is damn close to amount d1 athletes moving on to pro level as well
[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
as far as the paying players thing, I would argue that since many programs don’t allow their football players to get jobs in the summer, they should be on the hook for living expenses (a stipend) during the summer. For those 3-4 months out of every year, the scholarship is worth jack shit.
I would bet 100% of my bank account that Johnny Football does not miss the season. I would bet 80% of my bank account that he does not miss a single SEC or bowl game. I would bet 50% of my bank account that he does not miss a game.[/quote]
I dunno, I would still say that caf and dorm are really all the pay they need. [/quote]
Seriously? With no way to earn income? Come the fuck on, we’re not talking about 20 grand. We’re talking about a couple hundred bucks a month per player. Average dorm/food plan is worth less than 1000 bucks/ month. You split a shitty little room with another dude, and you eat the same awful food every day. How is that fair compensation for the hours they put into training/practice?
You’ve gotta understand, many of these guys come from homes where they’re receiving absolutely no financial support, so whatever the University is giving them is literally all they have. Most aren’t going to be able to get short term loans from the bank to cover living expenses during the summer. So you’re looking at a situation where a player is putting in work training every day, and yet can’t afford to go to a movie, go bowling, eat at chili’s, buy clothes, etc. It’s a damn shame.[/quote]
Are football players the only ones that aren’t allowed to have jobs due to practice? Which that could be the biggest problem. Let them get summer jobs. I am quite sure that the university could work out some type of schedule with local businesses, or even the university itself in a work study program, to where players that wanted them could have jobs. And what you are practicing maybe 6 hours a day, maybe doing some playbook studying in there as well, that’s no worse than a pre-med schedule and plenty of them get summer jobs.[/quote]
Yes to your first question, and it’s based on when their season starts (August). It’s not a question of time at most schools, it’s ‘if you get a job you’re off the team’. I don’t think you get that. The Universities are the entities that are preventing the athletes from working, so they have no intention of working toward getting them jobs. Your comparison to pre-med is flawed, because A) pre-med students are allowed to get jobs, and B) football is not a major. 99% of College football players will NOT become professionals. Pre-med students are investing in what they expect to be a future career, from which they will later reap benefits. Beyond that, pre-med students are generally eligible for stipends anyway. Also, 8 hours of pre-med study per day is vastly different from 8 hours of football per day. How you can ignore that is beyond me. Think about the type of job your average college football player is qualified for. Compare this to your average pre-med student. You’re comparing a dude sitting around reading books all day and then maybe working in a book store or coffee shop or something to a dude that is getting his ass beat on the field all day, and then going to work.
What specifically is the problem with a 200 dollar stipend per month during the summer for athletes who are prohibited from getting jobs?
[/quote]
No premed is studying anywhere near 8hrs a day not even close. If they are they will never get into med school. Also football players are not practicing 8hrs a day. I would guess the amount of pre mess moving on to med school is damn close to amount d1 athletes moving on to pro level as well[/quote]
agreed on both. I was giving bpick the benefit of the doubt on the studying, because my argument still worked assuming those terms.
[quote]comus3 wrote:
How about the NFL and NBA create some minor leagues for those who don’t want to be free labor for colleges’ alumni fundraising programs?[/quote]
The NBA has the D-league. There are indeed players that have skipped college and still made the NBA. Rare though. The NFL is set up different because players are not nearly physically developed enough for the league at 18.
I don’t believe finding reasons for athletes to skip College altogether is the solution here… but it would be interesting if there were more legit alternatives straight out of high school. That would be an incentive for the NCAA to change.