Carnivore = whole food animal products not just meat. Though some do eat only meat.
He did have a BCAA under his Carbon line.
My bad.
Again, I’m not saying Norton is unimpeachable. I understand that he too is a businessman and has an agenda.
Yea I gotcha. I don’t like his “debating” style at all and it seems to me he’s a bit bro sciency. I feel Saladino, Naiman, Baker’ D’Agastino… Are just more educated on the meat only / carnivore side is all.
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That’s fair, and I totally see where you’re coming from
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Its definitely an exciting frontier to explore
I’m not a lawyer, so take this with a big grain of salt. But I strongly suspect the answer is no, mainly because reading a doctor’s book or listening to his podcast would not be sufficient to establish a doctor-pt relationship between the consumer and the physician-author. You can’t sue someone for failing you as a doctor if they weren’t (legally) your doctor in the first place.
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Gotcha, makes sense
Just wanted to say fair enough. You’re at least consistent. I will point out then that virtually every PHD/MD in the health and fitness industry operate unethically in some facet of what they do then. (And every single non-doctor).
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True, but it is “Salad I no”. Which is especially funny when you take into account it sounding like a cartoon caveman.
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That’s pretty much what Saladino does with people does with people he coaches. Though he generally starts from the other side and adds in to see what is tolerable. Out of curiosity, did you discuss removing celery and kale from your diet with your MD?
That makes sense. He’s not exactly the guy I want coaching me, but people are free to buy what they want.
I never discussed removing celery or kale, but I noticed that my gut feels better when I removed it. For me, it worked a lot better to try things on my own than to consult with a medical professional
Agreed. I suppose one of the reasons I take particularly big issue with this topic is that I see potential harms with this nutrition approach (especially if it’s being recommended to manage mental health disorders, for example), that are yet to be proven unlikely with large population-based trials.
Like there was this NSAID called celecoxib that was supposed to avoid all the nasty GI side-effects of aspirin and ibuprofen. It cleared FDA trials and made it into circulation, becoming very popular. After a few years, it was identified that celecoxib was causing potentially-fatal cardiac arrythmias, and its use has since been restricted.
We don’t have population data for carnivore or similar strategies yet, so there very well could be risks involved that we don’t even know about yet, despite what I’m sure are very high levels of understanding of the current literature
Not to get into it too much, but modern nutrition and the government ran a population wide experiment with mainstream nutrition science for the last 50 years and the results have been disastrous. It may not have direct data, but a lack of data can be better than data showing you killed 10s of millions of people and made hundreds of millions fat and sick.
It’s also a little odd that you take special issue with his talk of mental disorders, since he actually does have an MD specializing in the subject.
Meat is not a novel substance to human biology.
And there are known risks and issues with all other nutrition strategies. Interventional nutrition studies for conventional nutrition advice are generally colossal failures.
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I remember whenever MODOK was the nutritional expert here on the boards.
Interestingly he is PharmD. 
Obviously he has no right to discuss nutrition.
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I missed this early but wanted to agree strongly here. I had the same eye opening moment when I realized that. Plants are anti-oxidant the same way cold exposure is. They cause a stress that has a anti-oxidant response in the body. For some reason though no body asks, “but where are you getting your anti-oxidants without cold exposure.” This isn’t to say that the hermetic response from plants can’t be good, but it is a hermetic response to low dose toxins. You can probably use both plants and cold exposure to increase anti-oxidant status in your body, BUT they should both be thought of as stressors. You shouldn’t be doing a wide variety of cold exposure constantly and you probably shouldn’t do that with plant foods either.
There are three issues with drawing parallels between environmental hormesis and the hermetic effect from food:
- Where do you draw the line with ‘food’? Alcohol, tobacco, weed, etc, can we turn a negative into a positive if it promotes a hermetic effect?
- Following (1), even then, what about side effects? Resveratrol is a classic example here. Despite some positive press in terms of its antioxidant status, it is also linked to a decrease in testosterone precursors.
- Science has demonstrated huge hermetic benefits from environmental stress, e.g. cold therapy causing change in glutathione levels. Check the Berlin cold water swimmers study for more on that.
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So, I ended up getting the book out of curiosity. It’s pretty dense, and focuses on the author making a case as to why meat/organs are superior from a nutrition perspective, while spending an equal (or more) amount of time making a case as to why plants are not only inferior, but toxic to varying levels. His writing is okay, but his attempts at humor are pretty lame. He also gives sample diets for various levels of a carnivore diet.
My take away is that I am convinced that meats and organs are highly nutritional and should be a part of an optimal diet, but I remain skeptical that eliminating all plant foods is ideal. He does make a pretty good case that leafy greens, broccoli, and others are more harmful than helpful (or, I am more open to having this confirmed so I don’t feel the need to eat them).
But, and this is a big but for me, the author reveals that he was a raw vegan for years prior to his carnivore dieting. This, to me, is a huge red flag on his credibility (and not because of raw veganism in particular). This tells me he is one of those always looking for extreme fringes to “crack a code” he so desperately wants to find. Also, it tells me he is one of those people that needs to define himself with a label, which means he will selectively seek out information that supports his extreme diet decisions.
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Do you realise Saladino has updated the book? Do you also realise he promotes metabolic flexibility? This is the problem when you start pigeon holing people. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the irony is that Saladino has been ostracised by a section of the carnivore community because he eats carbs. I prefer folks to come out and admit they’ve revised their beliefs rather than staunchly stick with them for the sake of saving face. Just my 2 cents given my 6 month foray into carnivore lifestyle.