Joe Rogan Experience- Paul Saladino

Nutrition
82

I imagine my copy is the updated copy, as I just got it from Amazon. I think it’s fine to change beliefs, but I think in this case it clearly shows he is prone to really wanting extreme diets to work. It doesn’t mean there’s no merit there (as I said in my earlier post), but to me it does diminish his credibility a bit.

If someone said “The best exercise program is ONLY pull ups”, and then, later, “Actually, the best is ONLY push ups. Pull ups are bad I have now learned” I would be less inclined to follow their coaching advice.

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83

This sums up my thoughts on these types to a T.

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84

Saladino has never espoused extreme views on meat or plant foods. In fact, he talks of the latter as “survival foods”. You will see this from the book you have, where you will also see plants rated on a toxicity spectrum. This makes logical sense, given he is promoting an “ancestral” diet, i.e. our ancestors wouldn’t walk past an apple tree, spitting on the trunk and cursing it’s branches!

Therefore, the analogy you use doesn’t quite work. I appreciate your views, though, and it is refreshing to see someone actually buying the book rather than jumping on the usual uninformed bandwagon bound for Rantsville. :smiley:

85

Don’t mean to disparage your views or his. But I think we differ on a few points:

In my opinion, a raw vegan diet does represent an extreme view. He lists his current carnivore diet as the following (he eats two meals a day):

Lunch:

  • 6 raw egg yolks
  • 100g beef suet with sea salt
  • 2oz raw liver
  • 2oz kidney
  • 6oz ribeye steak

Dinner:

  • 4oz testicle
  • 150g beef suet
  • 8 oz ribeye steak

Personally, I would call that pretty extreme.

86

NOPE.

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87

It really isn’t that bad.
Flavourless actually. Does get rubbery if overcooked though- like cuttlefish or octopus

I’m going to be honest, his meals actually sound delicious. Also, I believe he eats quite a bit of honey now.
What I don’t understand about the carnivore diet is how digestion works without the help of fiber

88

NNNNNNNNNOPE.

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89

Have you ever seen suet (def: the hard white fat on the kidneys and loins of cattle, sheep, and other animals, used to make foods including puddings, pastry, and mincemeat.)?

image

He says he occasionally eats honey and berries. (Two of my favorite foods).

The hypothesis is that fiber should not be eaten (it’s only found in the plant world), and is not needed for healthy digestion.

90

yes. The butcher at my wet market used to give it to me for free when I bought kidney. It is actually quite delicious, even if consumed raw. Caveat: I am a walking chinese food meme

This makes no sense to me based on the limited research I’ve seen/heard, but I am definitely not an expert

92

No issue with your interjections.

I am not here to defend Saladino. I am merely reflecting some of his more current views, which he posts regularly on his channel. And I can tell you he is consuming around 100g of CHO on certain days, which consists of a combination of fruit, rice and honey.

As for his raw vegan days, I’m not sure what he is guilty of here? I used to follow a Western Diet, e.g. 60+% CHO, moderate protein and fat as low as I could get it. I tossed out yolks from my eggs, drank semi-skimmed milk, ate lean chicken breast, had red meat occasionally, pounded the broccoli, ignored the frequent bloating, gas and poor bowel movements, always ate every 3 hours… Now I don’t. So, I feel, and look, much better. But, according to your reasoning, my credibility is shot after making this drastic change of direction.

But here’s the thing, what I did before was based on uninformed decision-making. I did the above because that was a 'balanced, ‘normal’, ‘common sense’ diet. Who needs to look into it? Everyone knows it’s the best approach. Right?

And I’ll be very honest, I initially tried keto and then carnivore with a similarly trusting view. Things started to happen so then I wanted to know more. So the research post-dated the experiment. So, then I realised why carnivore worked so well. So my diet became an informed decision; based on good research as well as extensive blood work (which I had done last month). Results: (posted about these elsewhere), suffice to say, extremely positive. I’m going for a DEXA next month to see how it has impacted on body comp, so the investigation continues.

My argument here is that, based on what I have just said, it would be illogical or, at best, double standards, for me to promote what my former self used to do. I cannot speak for Saladino, or anyone else, but provided they have done the research, their credibility should not be impacted by a change of direction. If it does, then we need to be equally critical of medical professionals who have challenged conventional thinking, e.g. Robert Lustig, Jason Fung, Tim Noakes, Peter Bruckner…

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93

Another thing to consider, which many state about exercise but seemingly not as often with diet, is that the individual may need to manipulate certain parameters within a diet to suite their specific genetics.

Person example: I tried a keto-style diet for a few months and it did NOT work for me. I felt like shit constantly. Were there things I could’ve done better? Probably. But I know, for myself, a higher carb intake is beneficial. Another thing I tolerate very well is dairy — something many people struggle with.

Point being, Saladino’s carnivore diet probably works extremely well for him, and he’s obviously tweaked it to see even more benefit. Others may try the baseline recommendation, then find they need to add or subtract certain things to suite their needs.

94

A couple of things. According to Saladino (and some others) bio-individualism is highly overstated. We just don’t differ enough evolutionarily to have that be the case. That said, with modern science we do have people reproducing with genetic problems and intolerances that wouldn’t have survived in foregone times and with it food allergies and intolerances. But all told, eating styles tend to be more subjective preferences based on your environment than true genetic individuality.

Secondly, an issue I have with an extreme diet like the carnivore (plenty of other examples) is that they tend to work because they are an elimination diet. Get rid of sugars, processed foods, alcohol, etc… and you will almost certainly see a health bump. But, there are still limited studies on how such a narrow diet will fare for longterm health and longevity. The carnivore dieters (like the vegan athletes) have usually been at it a short time, and not decades and decades.

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95

As a non-American (Scandinavian) this does not sound normal to me. Nor balanced. Excluding any macro, or purposefully avoiding it, sounds like the definition of imbalance.

96

Wouldn’t this be a form of bio-individuality, though? I ask that as a legitimate question, because I just don’t know enough about the subject.

I just think about people groups like the Inuit and some tribes in African countries who have existed for ages on a largely “carnivore” diets simply due to necessity, juxtaposed with European/nordic peoples who had high levels of grains in their diet. Wouldn’t it make sense that their physiology would have adapted to thrive on those diets?

Again, seeking input and information.

97

I’m no expert here, but am a scientist and have read things and developed my own ideas so take what I say with a grain of salt. I think what you point out is true, and that humans have survived and prospered because we ARE able to live off of and adapt to a wide range of food. This meant that we could adapt to the availability of food types throughout a given year, or locked in a given environment. You may be right that there are some variations among use that means some handle carbs better, some not, etc… I personally don’t believe a highly restrictive diet (unless you are restricting sugars, processed foods, etc…) is the best idea for us to thrive longterm (or even short term, unless it is an elimination diet and you’re coming in overweight). Now, if I start to see data of people that have been eating like Saladino’s typical day for multiple decades live long, disease-free lives while also enjoying top level athleticism and performance I am open to changing my views.

98

See, I feel like if testicles were delicious, there’d be at least one reason to eat them. Eating tasteless, possibly rubbery balls sounds like my exact personal definition of “that bad”.

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99

In that case, do you like octopus or calamari?

100

I don’t mind calimari from time to time, but when I do, it’s breaded, fried, and probably doesn’t taste much like squid anymore.

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101

In that case, you could try rocky mountain oysters

102

I know what Rocky Mountain oysters are, haha.

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